[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[crimsonstardust]

Its cool to do but its just to many stars for the kind of damage you get off of it, though I think its more practical with overdrive just cause you get stars as you do flashy stuff.

[Justice7541]

I was able to make it do a high-speed fall crossup earlier today too, need to figure out exactly I managed to do it. I basically went for airthrow reset, missed it, and we dropped super fast and I somehow landed behind him right as we hit the ground. Would have been super swag if intentional.

[Owner]

After searching for mixups and stuff in training mode I came across this:

If you hover dash towards your opponent, do a backdash once he has to turn around

After the backdash do a j.B and afterwards a j.C

The j.B will hit the enemy on his back while the j.C will cross him up

However it takes quite some time to do a full hover dash, so maybe we can use it after a knockdown or something?

P.S: Training dummy was Ragna/Azrael

[Dark Ranger88]

I don't think it'd necessarily be that hard to do, just take forever to find that situation. Tk noir loops are probably the easiest loops in this game, so its really just the heat and hp requirements holdin ya back.

I can do the Noir loop just fine. It's the astral link at the end that's the hardest part, especially when you're trying to do it in a real match.

[crimsonstardust]

After searching for mixups and stuff in training mode I came across this:

If you hover dash towards your opponent, do a backdash once he has to turn around

After the backdash do a j.B and afterwards a j.C

The j.B will hit the enemy on his back while the j.C will cross him up

However it takes quite some time to do a full hover dash, so maybe we can use it after a knockdown or something?

P.S: Training dummy was Ragna/Azrael

I just tried this off of a regular bnb midscreen, not enough time after a strike fall for it to really work as intended. By the time you hover dash to the peak and go for it, they are already walking back assuming they don't realized its a cross up overhead set up, and if they are crouch blocking its gonna go over your opponent.

[Owner]

It does work:

Some notes:

- does not work on crouching opponents

- can fake crossup too (see end of clip)

- needs 2 stars

- if the opponent manages to block it you can go for other mixups

Again, sorry for the low quality

[Adam0812]

I can do the Noir loop just fine. It's the astral link at the end that's the hardest part, especially when you're trying to do it in a real match.

You wanna do strike fall > 5c > astral. If you get to the top of the screen (doesn't need to be off the screen) you can land and 5c astral from a lower high than straight strike fall > astral.

Using this you can land an astral from j.aa air to air

[Adam0812]

It does work:

Some notes:

- does not work on crouching opponents

- can fake crossup too (see end of clip)

- needs 2 stars

- if the opponent manages to block it you can go for other mixups

Again, sorry for the low quality

There was a good video that showed mix up from 236d > IAD > stuff.

My thoughts with your mix up is most people won't give you enough respect and just 5a you out of it

[Owner]

Thanks for the feedback

Yeah, mashing after the hover dash will hit you for sure + if the opponent is not walking constantly backwards the timing will be a little bit off

It was more or less an experiment of sorts

[Angel-tastic]

So right now that setup doesn't seem that strong (backdash out, crouch, run forward, Inferno Divider, etc.), but maybe it might work better with the movement upgrades in the near future. It could be a useful thing to keep in mind to try out later. If you want to cross them up, you can still do IAD -> j.B -> j.C after the Sonic Saber. Maybe not the best setup ever, but OK if they're not ready to anti-air I suppose.

[Seventh-Prodigy]

EDIT: Looks like SRK went ahead and translated the patch notes

Changelog on upcoming patch.

http://shoryuken.com/2014/02/13/arc-system-works-releases-changelist-for-upcoming-blazblue-chronophantasma-balance-patch/

Izayoi:

Gain Arts Air Dash – Can now be performed twice.

Gain Arts Ground Dash, Air Dash – Can now be directionally influenced while midair, by inputting up or down.

Gain Arts Air Backdash – Has the same animation as the ground version, but has no invincibility.

5B – Improved attack hitbox, reduced hurtbox.

Gain Arts 5C – Decreased knockback distance.

Normal Mode 3C – On hit it now floats higher. Increased P2 (Combo Proration).

D Sonic Saber – Now consumes 2 orbs when used. The ground version can be canceled into D Mirage Thruster.

D Mirage Thruster – Now only consumes 1 orbs when used.

Still not sure how to feel about 236D using 2 stock, but I'm excited about the extra mobility in the air, and that 5B's hitbox has been tweaked. I hated getting CH when someone hit the tip of 5B.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Seventh-Prodigy

[crimsonstardust]

I find it being a odd change they made the D version of sonic sabre not D teleport cancelable any more, kind of an odd change but I can live with that. GA air backdash sounds like an odd change to me but we'll see how that works out. It doesn't look like they addressed the common issue of GA 5B 5C whiffing a lot of times but I wonder of that's part of the 5B changes that's listed.

[Surf]

I said to a friend the hover change we saw a couple weeks ago wouldnt ammount to much unless they gave her 2 airdashes while in gain art. Which is what they did. Really surprised and happy about it. Gain art will become alot more viable even if your starless solely because of the insane movement boosts. Her movements going to be onpar with Orgia mode or even better. Since she wont have a gauge like Aigis.

[Rhannmah]

These changes are weird to say the least, but I feel that 2 airdashes and the capability to control the vertical direction of air dashes will help Izayoi getting in. I don't understand the change to D sonic saber, it's not like it was overpowered. Teleports are still bad. Her oki game is still very shaky. 5B buffed, but it's her other normals that sucked, this one was already decent. Anti-air is still shit. I feel most of these changes don't really address her core problems.

Also, I wonder what happened to the previous patch info that stated that Izayoi's BnB's were too hard and were made easier to connect, none of these changes seem to affect that. Revolver action table is apparently unchanged.

Edit - @Surf: the difference with orgia mode being that Aegis moves like 1.5 times faster than Izayoi. You can have all the movement options you like, if you move slow enough, you're still readable whichever decision you pick to get in. But we'll see. Izayoi certainly won't jump to high tier from these simple changes though.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Rhannmah

[Surf]

Normal mode needed alot more help than gain art but for some reason they found the only thing that needed changing was her ability to combo into 236B from 3C. While Aigis will probably still move faster, Izayoi having an immense amount of movement in gain art will help her a lot. In some matchups she cant get in while in normal mode and its iffy with gain art given how it is now.

And what do people honestly want with her anti airs. 623B/C are some of the best anti airs in the game. They shine in neutral be i can see why people would complain while their being pressured. There are two problems with them. One has to do with human reaction time and not the character herself. Invul kicks in on f 4 so she can stuff alot of jump cancel pressure. But the problem is the input, 623, which is sometimes hard to do in a wuarter of a second in reaction to jump canc pressure. You also have to sometimes take into account you may have to use a specific version. Other problem is th crap ton of recovery shes put in. But thats understandable because their hitbox and speed are so good. Her anti airs are fine. 5A has its uses sometimes as well.

I do agree that 5B was decent as it was and they shouldve looked at other normals instead. From these changes it just looks like they figured lets just make the mode shes actually "scary" in a lot better. Instead of fixing a lot of the other stuff she needed. But its whatever. At the end of the day she has more oftens than she did before

Dunno why those combo cancels or gat buffs they claimed arent there though

[Angel-tastic]

So I'm happy about the two Gain Art dashes. I feel like it's going to be a lot easier to bait and punish anti-airs now, maybe dash forward -> air dash back to dodge -> air dash forward into j.C. She might still not be fast enough though. I hope she's at least slightly faster too. Hopefully we can air dash into 2B somehow too. That would be pretty cool. I'm pretty partial to the A Sonic Saber -> D Teleport setup, so I'm pretty excited about the cheaper D teleport. As for her one nerf with D Sonic Saber costing 2 stocks, I honestly agree with it when I think about it. It's really good for resetting your pressure, so it does seem a bit cheap at the moment.

Anyhow, I also remember hearing about changes to her revolver chart like Rhannmah mentioned. The Gain Art buffs are cool, but I feel like her normal mode and defenses were what needed more work. Having a normal anti-air would be really helpful, since it's so hard to react with DP input in time (sometimes I've been able to "anti-air" with 5A, but that's not really that useful with it's current properties). Also, having a reversal DP, or even somehow buffing 6A would've helped IMO. Also, I'm hoping they made 5B jump cancelable or something. It doesn't seem like there's anything to be done at the moment if the opponent jumps into 5B, since there's not enough time to react with CS Alpha. Also, I was hoping 6B would be comboable somehow, maybe something like normal mode 6B -> 6C like Mu can do. That would help mixup in normal mode to at least get some stars offensively instead of just trying to catch the opponent off guard.

As for the normal mode 3C change, maybe now there could be time to hit-confirm it, so we can use it for "mix-up" (of course she has no comboable standing overheads at the moment, so that's why I was really hoping for some sort of 6B buff). At least I would think it combos into CS Gamma now. Also, I'm actually really excited about the GA 5C knockback change. Maybe now 5C -> 2C(1) -> CS Gamma could work in situations where it doesn't work right now, but we will see.

I find it being a odd change they made the D version of sonic sabre not D teleport cancelable any more...

I think you misread. D Sonic Saber on the ground currently isn't teleport cancelable and they're changing it so that it is.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Angel-tastic

[crimsonstardust]

Oh snap I did misread that. I did not know D swords wasn't originally, never used it like that cause the air version for me was how I set my meatys up. I'm hoping 6A is getting a hidden buff cause honestly if it just catches lows too I would be fine with it, not a stupidly good reversal but one just solid enough to use for reads against another button.

[Celerity]

Honestly, there's no sense complaining about these changes. This is only a minor patch to address Kokonoe, and it's clear that they didn't make an attempt to rebalance the entire cast. We're lucky that they took a look at Izayoi at all. She will continue to get buffs in the next full version.

[Justice7541]

Honestly, there's no sense complaining about these changes. This is only a minor patch to address Kokonoe, and it's clear that they didn't make an attempt to rebalance the entire cast. We're lucky that they took a look at Izayoi at all. She will continue to get buffs in the next full version.

Well, I don't think anyone's complaining, she's getting some really good buffs. People were just expecting a lot though I guess.

[Rhannmah]

I'm complaining. The movement buffs are great but she needs more than just that to be competitive. Also, that universal combo time reduction on jump-ins REALLY hurts her gameplay.

@Surf : I was talking about an anti-air normal. Seriously, 6a is a disgrace. Can't be cancelled into anything, blows the opponent back which is the last thing you want to do. But on the subject of her special anti-airs, sure they aren't bad, but as you stated, you have to choose which one you do and it's a 623 motion. Unless people are jumping at you stupidly, you have to make hard reads (basically, guess) on what they're going to do and they have bad recovery so if they get blocked, evaded or miss in most cases it's a free punish. 623b's hitbox is really slim, it can miss quite easily. Considering how mobile characters are in the air in Blazblue, they can be faked out rather easily. It certainly doesn't help that 623b and 623c have two different visual stances to let the opponent know which one you're doing and in the case you guessed wrong and want to cancel out of them, it takes so much time (especially 623c, god) that you'll be in danger anyway. Compare that to Litchi's Itsuu stance, a full body guard point move that can go into anti-air, mid or low at the press of a single button, the anti-air being -2 on block so it is unpunishable. Yeah.

[Justice7541]

I'm complaining. The movement buffs are great but she needs more than just that to be competitive. Also, that universal combo time reduction on jump-ins REALLY hurts her gameplay.

@Surf : I was talking about an anti-air normal. Seriously, 6a is a disgrace. Can't be cancelled into anything, blows the opponent back which is the last thing you want to do. But on the subject of her special anti-airs, sure they aren't bad, but as you stated, you have to choose which one you do and it's a 623 motion. Unless people are jumping at you stupidly, you have to make hard reads (basically, guess) on what they're going to do and they have bad recovery so if they get blocked, evaded or miss in most cases it's a free punish. 623b's hitbox is really slim, it can miss quite easily. Considering how mobile characters are in the air in Blazblue, they can be faked out rather easily. It certainly doesn't help that 623b and 623c have two different visual stances to let the opponent know which one you're doing and in the case you guessed wrong and want to cancel out of them, it takes so much time (especially 623c, god) that you'll be in danger anyway. Compare that to Litchi's Itsuu stance, a full body guard point move that can go into anti-air, mid or low at the press of a single button, the anti-air being -2 on block so it is unpunishable. Yeah.

Well it could be worse, Kagura isn't much better than Izayoi and he's pretty much getting straight nerfs. Izayoi is probably getting the most buffs out of any character in the cast with all the movement and normal buffs.

If you were expecting a total overhaul of the character, then too bad. If you were just expecting them to nerf Kokonoe and tweak a few other things then this is actually more than they needed to do.

[Surf]

I'm complaining. The movement buffs are great but she needs more than just that to be competitive. Also, that universal combo time reduction on jump-ins REALLY hurts her gameplay.

@Surf : I was talking about an anti-air normal. Seriously, 6a is a disgrace. Can't be cancelled into anything, blows the opponent back which is the last thing you want to do. But on the subject of her special anti-airs, sure they aren't bad, but as you stated, you have to choose which one you do and it's a 623 motion. Unless people are jumping at you stupidly, you have to make hard reads (basically, guess) on what they're going to do and they have bad recovery so if they get blocked, evaded or miss in most cases it's a free punish. 623b's hitbox is really slim, it can miss quite easily. Considering how mobile characters are in the air in Blazblue, they can be faked out rather easily. It certainly doesn't help that 623b and 623c have two different visual stances to let the opponent know which one you're doing and in the case you guessed wrong and want to cancel out of them, it takes so much time (especially 623c, god) that you'll be in danger anyway. Compare that to Litchi's Itsuu stance, a full body guard point move that can go into anti-air, mid or low at the press of a single button, the anti-air being -2 on block so it is unpunishable. Yeah.

When I look at 6A and how it behaves I don't think anti air normal. Maybe you can look at Valks for references but his has a larger window of guard point (which kicks in faster) and his hitbox for the normal is a lot more vertical. If anything Izayoi's is very horizontal. And I've attempted to use 6A on jump in before only to have her guard point the attack, go into 6A's active frames and whiff under the opponent. Only for them to land in front of me unscathed. The closest thing she has to an anti air normals is 5A/j.A. 5A isn't as good as alot of the other anti air 5A's but it something to go into if your not confident in doing 623B/C. j.A works pretty often for me as well. I can't do 623B/C on reaction like the first time someone jump cancels really. As you said they'll have to do it multiple times or from a certain point of their pressure constantly. What I CAN do on reaction and I think others could do is 5A/j.A them.

Learn the spacing for 5A anti air and make it work. It's not that hard. As for 6A I think it's use is to stop redashes during pressure. Which is about the only time I'll use it. Blowing back your opponent is preferred (depending on the matchup) usually because it resets neutral in many cases and grants you a chance at better positioning.

[Rhannmah]

So basically, 6a is a huge pile of shit and needs many improvements? Yeah, I agree with that.

[crimsonstardust]

As for 6A I think it's use is to stop redashes during pressure. Which is about the only time I'll use it. Blowing back your opponent is preferred (depending on the matchup) usually because it resets neutral in many cases and grants you a chance at better positioning.

Well wouldn't this not work as well if they redashed in with a normal that hits low? Some characters 2A hits low so match up dependent I guess?

Anti air with her has always been a little weird for me. I usually can never see when it's better to do 623C cause I usually catch people with 623B but that's usually off a preemptive read or if I see them air dash at me. I never thought of using jA as an anti air though, I'm gonna try that next time I play.

[Surf]

6A has it's uses. But their situational/risky. I would say to not use it until you have a grasp of how someone handles their pressure and what they do at certain pressure points.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Surf