The State of Netplay – A call for Netplay Heroes (PSN Edition)

[Bibiquadium]

The problem is if the streamer is lagging, thus gets a poor connection the match (even though the match is fine, the streamer spectates the match with some freezes/slow-down etc.)

Then your video will record the stutters and such and broadcast those. It doesn't affect the match, but it can affect the quality of the stream. That's why some people take so long to "exit out" of the after-game menu even when they're not playing. It's because they have a poor conn to the match and they are actually still watching the match.

Obviously it would bring the steam to a grinding halt if it got bad enough that the streamer got the "Your connection quality is too poor to continue viewing this match." thing.

Obviously there is moderation in everything, if you use every tiny bit of your bandwith for the stream leaving no space at all it will happen. But even at 720p 2000 kbps is more than fine for an above average quality stream.

[Ayashii]

I wouldn't mind creating a FT10 thread and having people fight me, record, and add analysis on what they did right and wrong, what I did right and wrong, etc. I would also like to support, ranbats, etc. Anything would be fine. I honestly am living off of financial aid for college atm, so I can't help with the money situation, but incentive definitely produces results as Hellknight said.

In my case, I would definitely be willing to help because I have the fortune of being a console hopping faggot. I could work as a bridge and show off the talent both systems may or may not have, in this case. It would be interesting to show XBL players, and PSN players, counterparts and different playstyles from players of the same character on different systems, so that they can see how different people approach me, or maybe different tendencies (A lot of different tendencies on both systems, I can tell you this from experience.)

Also, I don't lag myself on Skype when I am playing now and days, but some people do. I chat in XBL parties, or in PSN lobbies, but the sad truth is, a lot of people don't own mics/aren't willing to be sociable during games for one reason or another (Antisocial, concentration, just don't want to talk lol). It's a problem, but honestly, I can tell you that if I don't talk to people while I play, I just stop giving a fuck lol. The social aspect of fighting games is what makes playing face to face a lot more fun, which is why I like talking to people myself. It would also be a good way to discuss right and wrong as you play. For example, (I won't be mentioning names for privacy purposes), I played a friend in a FT10 the other day, and as I fought that friend, I wrote that a list of that players tendencies. What that player did right, wrong, habits, patterns, adjustments to play, lack of adjustments, and I showed that player all of them. Needless to say, I taught the player things they didn't even know about their playstyle, and it helped that player's play because of it.

I could do that through talking after matches, I could do that during FT10s, but one thing for sure: A process of growing and the process of competition is what keeps me playing anime, even just on netplay due to personal issues, but it still keeps me here. A rise in competition would definitely increase player interest, but a rise in competition also needs incentive in order to draw people out. Also, Extend has been dying since it first came out, so doing this almost a year after it's release would make this even harder. Still trying to come up with more ideas, but I guess the tl;dr is I am willing to help, and I would make a FT10 thread where people challenge my Jin, and I record and critique if people want to continue getting better at the game, or just get better at fighting games in general (habits transfer over, you know).

As far as your ideas cat, I support all of them. I would love to commentate myself, actually, for similar reasons that I would like to critique in general, if possible. I should have the equipment to commentate, although I can't stream

[xntrikcat]

Thanks Ayashii_ (you're ShadowRedZero, is that right?) for the support. I believe FT5/FT10 recorded matches with commentaries would be great content to watch. The commentaries could be technical, or it could just be hilarious and entertaining. I would watch them, and would support anyone putting out such content. I'd love to FT10 your Jin, always enjoyed playing vs. you, though we didn't play much.

About voice chat - I personally don't like speaking DURING the match, especially in a tourney setting, mostly because I'd like to concentrate. I want voice chat for post-match shit talk (in a loving caring way<3), or for casual games where folks are just having fun. The participation here would be completely voluntary, but some effort should be made to designate a "spot" where everyone is welcome.

Another idea I had - with the Tournament #1 going up, I'd like to start a Donation Drive, where I'll match people's contributions dollar-for-dollar, and have a pile of money with which to host future events. I don't know how the turn out may be, and what kind of damage it'll do to my bank, but if I have funds and a bit of wiggle room, I can offer tournaments greater than $20 prize just for the 1st place, and try the traditional 70/20/10 split.

Here's a logistics question - how long does a 16-man double elimination tourney last, roughly speaking? I can host tournaments for any time after 8:30 on Wed-Sun, but if that's a bit too late, I might have to do it on Sundays, which I believe hasn't been a traditional Tourney day for the netplay community.

[Ayashii]

Thanks Ayashii_ (you're ShadowRedZero, is that right?) for the support. I believe FT5/FT10 recorded matches with commentaries would be great content to watch. The commentaries could be technical, or it could just be hilarious and entertaining. I would watch them, and would support anyone putting out such content. I'd love to FT10 your Jin, always enjoyed playing vs. you, though we didn't play much.

About voice chat - I personally don't like speaking DURING the match, especially in a tourney setting, mostly because I'd like to concentrate. I want voice chat for post-match shit talk (in a loving caring way<3), or for casual games where folks are just having fun. The participation here would be completely voluntary, but some effort should be made to designate a "spot" where everyone is welcome.

Another idea I had - with the Tournament #1 going up, I'd like to start a Donation Drive, where I'll match people's contributions dollar-for-dollar, and have a pile of money with which to host future events. I don't know how the turn out may be, and what kind of damage it'll do to my bank, but if I have funds and a bit of wiggle room, I can offer tournaments greater than $20 prize just for the 1st place, and try the traditional 70/20/10 split.

Here's a logistics question - how long does a 16-man double elimination tourney last, roughly speaking? I can host tournaments for any time after 8:30 on Wed-Sun, but if that's a bit too late, I might have to do it on Sundays, which I believe hasn't been a traditional Tourney day for the netplay community.

Lol I am not SRZ, I am Haven D: (Why the fuck does everyone get me confused for other Jins, this shit is depressing ;_

Alright, I will probably make a thread right now, but I guess I will need some assistance getting people to respond. I am only as willing as others.

[xntrikcat]

My bad, but you did change the handle.....................! I knew you were one of the good Jin's, and I always got you two confused.

[Hellknight10]

from my experience 16-man double elimination tournaments lasts from 1.5-3 hours. It all depends on how smooth it goes, and trust me there is always something that goes wrong no matter what, whether it is from your own part, another player's fault or just the servers taking a dump.

also give me your Skype account xntrikcat so that I can help you. My username there is Hellknight_10

[Star-Demon]

:Just some personal thoughts on entering a online ranbat - maybe you can relate, maybe not:

I was out of fucking control when I played comp in Tribes and Battlefield. I never want to revisit that. As bad as you guys think I am right now, I consider myself mostly on balance these days compared to Counter Strike, Tribes, and Battlefield.

Entering and maintaining a weekly competitive schedule will probably be the worst thing I could do for myself and others.

Granted, I'm on a training/rescue arc right now, but whatever I feel about playing competitively online at the end of this arc - I 100% do not want to revisit my comp days.

If you are concerned for what people think of netplay and competition - keep in mind it *does* bring out the absolute worst in people whether they want it to or not.

[xntrikcat]

Star, this is not difficult. Either you're mature enough to contain the salt and negativity and just "have fun," with a bit of competition thrown in, or you're not.

HK - Friend request sent, currently don't have a headset so I can text chat for now.

[Dreiko]

You can use your anger and salt to grow a few extra arms and punch harder or you can let it consume you, the choice is yours. :D

In any case, Star is if anything, a more than competent announcer for streaming tourneys, that's a fact. Back in cs2 we had this gfaqs tourney and he announced it with plenty of hype and humor. He even complemented my teammate Onishirou and his ryuissho-using Litchi. :D

[zeth07]

If you guys are trying to get more people interested in netplay tournaments, then there needs to be more advertising than what we currently have for our tournaments. We have multiple websites and programs that people use for communication that we could be spreading information through. (Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Skype, etc.) There's also other fighting game forums that we should be advertising our tournaments on (Shoryuken, Test Your Might, 8WayRun, Tekken Zaibatsu, Event Hubs all have BB forums/threads IIRC) to get more people interested.

I've been watching our netplay tournaments since they started, and the only advertising I ever see is the single thread here on DL and the stream advertisement on the front page. We have numerous members here on DL that can create quality ads (Both video and image based) for us to use across these websites. Not only will this encourage more players to join these tournaments, it will also help to bring in new BB players from different communities.

I didnt think about posting our events on other sites.

That would help promote whatever event we do too.

Not for nothing but when I was doing stuff I would post threads on GameFaqs as well some of the time. There was even some other site that was supposed to be dedicated to BlazBlue that I tried posting on and after the first time one of the admins or mods told me not to do it anymore, which I thought was kinda messed up but whatever. Can't remember the name of that site though (Mid post edit: remembered....Destructive Nature). Never really go to those other sites, and 90% of the time SRK doesn't even load for me. But I do agree, it wouldn't hurt to post info everywhere you can.

---------

I'll give my two cents on everything else, probably going to be a long post so read it if you want.

-Instead of just posting about netplay tournaments on other sites forums, I think there should be a legitimate effort to try and get BlazBlue related content posted on the front page of any fighting game "news" sites like Eventhubs since it has moved away from strictly Capcom. This is more of a general thought towards increasing BB's popularity, and it is personally annoying seeing content from some other games being posted no matter how insignificant it is and yet almost nothing BB related gets posted unless it is huge news. While I don't think it is entirely BB's fault, it would seem it is needed for people to actively send in those links because the people who handle those sites sure aren't going to go out of their way to do it for BB themselves.

Part of SF's and other games popularity is that they have "famous players" that people know, so when they see a DAIGO video posted they are going to watch. Same could be said here with certain Japanese players. If people send in links and say here's some top Japanese BB matches feat: Player X, Y, Z it starts to get names out there that people want to watch. We all know the good players, but the general fighting game community probably doesn't, so they don't have more of a reason to watch.

-For the online tournaments/league idea, if you're going to put money on the line I think there should be a "prize" for winning the league by being the top ranked player. This would also mean when you do the tournaments/league that it would have a set "season". I also think you could do a "Champions" tournament, which would have anyone who won one of the tournaments gets to participate and the winner of that also gets a prize. Let's say a season equals 8 tournaments, so it would be open to 8 potential players. If someone won multiple tournaments then any open spots are filled with the next highest ranked player, so on and so forth.

I don't know how much money you or anyone else is willing to spend, but maybe the donation page could be used as the prize for the league winner so that it is a cumulative prize throughout the season, on top of whatever you're willing to put in. Instead of doing $20 each tournament, maybe do $5 (maybe a PSN card instead of straight money?). Then when you do the "Championship" you can put in a larger sum of money if you so choose to.

-Another option would be to setup something like the Topanga League. It would be more like an invitational league to the "top players" and would provide a source of "high level play" that could be uploaded to Youtube and then sent to the fighting game sites to try and help promote BB a little. You could run it exactly like the Topanga League which means it would be more open ended as long as the players want to ACTIVELY participate. LK's tournament was similar to this but that seemed to fall through for whatever reason. That's why I think it should still try to have a set schedule.

You could have a player list for those you think would fit this type of event and from that ask which ones would be actually trying to play and do the whole thing without dropping out. There's no point in trying to get the "top players" to play if they don't even actively play the game or want to if you know what I mean, they should WANT to participate. You could leave the last spot open to a vote with the remaining players who are willing to play and you think are good. The winner of the whole thing could then receive a prize.

-The more "friendly" option would be a league where everyone gets to play multiple matches against people whether they win or lose and there's never a set "winner" for any given event (no tournament). Then the rankings can be based strictly on W/L + Match Differential, so that the top ranked player can then receive the prize at the end of the season. If you want to add a little more competition to it, at the end of the season you could then take the top 8 ranked players and do a tournament for a different prize. So it's similar to the first option I mentioned but not quite.

-I DO recommend restricting it by regions/time zones as mentioned. I don't care what anyone says, leaving an event open to anyone is just asking for lag trouble. Setting it up by region helps this issue as much as possible, we all know some people lag regardless, but it's the best option. I'd also say don't try to do more than you feel like. Meaning if you want to do the East, don't feel like you need to also do the West so everyone is happy and can participate, that's just more time you gotta spend on things. Let someone else step up and handle that, and if no one does then so be it.

-In terms of recording matches or streaming the organized events, I would consider setting up a "community" channel that's shared so that no matter who records or streams it all goes to one place. I'm pretty sure for streams at least you can actually assign people access to it, for Youtube you would just need to give out the password to trustworthy people. Not that this is really needed but it's just an idea. I'd also say don't try to run the event and stream/record yourself, it is just more to worry about and it would be less stressful to let someone else do it so you can focus strictly on the event.

-As for the self hatred, this is a problem in my opinion. There are definitely streams where certain commentators should NOT be on there. It isn't helping the game at all when the commentators are talking shit about the game that is being played, I don't care who you are it is not a good look. I'm not going to say names or point fingers but people know who they are, and I'd rather there be no commentators than have people doing that. No matter how boring some of the SF commentators are I don't think I ever hear them say that kind of stuff. Hell I watched that APEX Brawl stream for the first time and I actually thought the commentary was good even though I don't play the game or even remotely know anything about it (I watched during the US vs the World thing for reference to which commentary I'm talking about). Even with all the bullshit in Marvel, I barely ever hear the commentators hating on the game itself. This has pretty much ZERO to do with netplay, but I do think it is an issue.

Everyone else who says "dead game" or talks shit about it on Twitter or whatever sites there isn't really anything we can do because it is their opinion on their personal pages. I do think the people who do it jokingly are stupid because it is not a good look on the community no matter if you're joking or not, it's just stupid to me and I personally think some people are hypocrites but that's another story entirely. But commentary on a stream that hundreds or even a few thousand people might be watching should not have that.

That's my thoughts, hopefully I covered everything that came to mind.

Edited January 15, 2013 by zeth07
typo

[Airk]

Everyone else who says "dead game" or talks shit about it on Twitter or whatever sites there isn't really anything we can do because it is their opinion on their personal pages. I do think the people who do it jokingly are stupid because it is not a good look on the community no matter if you're joking or not, it's just stupid to me and I personally think some people are hypocrites but that's another story entirely. But commentary on a stream that hundreds or even a few thousand people might be watching should not have that.

Just wanted to weigh in with 100% agreement on this; I love this game, and some of the 'commentary' that happens even at comparatively 'major' events is -full- of "Dead game" "stupid character" "this game is so dumb" "I used to play this game until I realized I hate it" kind of stuff and if THAT doesn't turn people off the game, nothing will.

I miss Dacidbro's commentary. Honest to god enthusiasm. Go figure.

[mAc Chaos]

I feel like all the BB hate from the Capcom communities somehow filters down into the BB players. We're like a minority group. :P

[xntrikcat]

Hi Zeth. Thanks for your thoughts. Always considered your thoughts to be fair and logical. Perhaps you're an engineering major?

On Tournaments - different formats

a. Invitationals sound great, and I do want to do those in the future. For now though, weekly tournaments limited by region with small prizes might get us in the right direction. I do want to get there, but I think timing will be better leading up to BBCP's release, or soon after.

b. I'm a little skeptical about starting a "league." It did cross my mind (just like... fantasy football!), but I want to maximize participation, and setting up a league with a buy-in might deter otherwise interested players. A consistent schedule of tournaments might be better.

c. I'm not sure if the "friendly league" would work out. I think One-shot deals with Prize promised up front is the best way to get people to show up. Having led 40 and 25 man raids (lolnerd), I know all too well when someone magically needs to bail when there's no chance for him to "get loot." A friendly league would be difficult to police, and might not offer the immediate gratification that we as people are all slaved to.

So Zeth, my idea so far would be to do an EST league (just like you set it up - was the connection OK w/ the midwest players?)

I'd like to post the date for this either late Wednesday night, or early Thursday. Then, I want to set up a donation drive, where until the first tournament, any donations made will be matched by me, provided it doesn't get me broke (lol). I'd like HK and Zeth to help me organize the tourney logistics, while I'll hammer out the prize/scheduling details.

[xntrikcat]

I feel like all the BB hate from the Capcom communities somehow filters down into the BB players. We're like a minority group. :P

I don't even like to think this way. Who cares what the Capcom guys do? They don't care about BB anyway. THEY.JUST.DONT. This "donate money for your spot at EVO" is a goddamn joke... SFxTK? You've got to be shitting me. The game is NOT as good as BB, and that's what I'm willing to defend, and we need to let the quality of our game speak for itself. So can the negativity, get hype, donate money, kill bitches, drink blood.

[Dreiko]

What ever happened with those bbvlog videos we used to have? I remember watching those a while back and that's the kind of content that we need.

[Daisy-Fan]

Am with zeth07, 100% of it!

am honest i really liked the idea of the channel we could make to put our net play games or tournament in.

Yet like say, i do have the attitude to play the game fine, somehow am kind afraid of the other ones.

[Star-Demon]

Star, this is not difficult. Either you're mature enough to contain the salt and negativity and just "have fun," with a bit of competition thrown in, or you're not.

I disagree - You are oversimplifying this issue.

As for BBVlog - I think they died?

As for hating the game on commentary - this is mostly because of "Old Men". I understand how they could feel "tired". The person that usually puts it best is DacidBro, since he has a very positive attitude but still is tired of BlazBlue.

I'd also add that commentating matches is a real mixed bag of skills. Some are social, some are theatrical, some are academic. People place value in different ways into these. We like Dacid, we like James Xie, but we also sometimes like SpiritJuice and sometimes Hellpockets.

For example: I'll be proud when I get to sit at the stream setup at Next Level.

A community channel for uploads is a good idea - give password to several people - it's a common practice.

[Hellknight10]

big post

I've always liked the idea of a champions league/tournament but most players aren't that committed to these things

all these people would be winning tournaments and getting points in the rankings but then they randomly just stop showing, not only that but you can't always satisfy their schedule for a big champions tournament

it would have to be like Plebian's Playground which would be fine if the players and hosts are committed

also DL really needs to start posting more new tech, combo videos, etc on the front page other than just tournament dates imo

[Daisy-Fan]

I will say it once again, At least if our group of netplay on both Ps3/360 could try it, just to choose an option it will work or not, at least we did an try. and am ready up for it.

[Bibiquadium]

Star if you're not planning on staying on the subject, please don't post here. We're trying to setup something interesting here, the last thing this thread needs is pointless drama, thank you. Not everyone has anger management and emotional downs over netplay, some can truly enjoy their time, don't spread the virus.

[xntrikcat]

Lastly, before I leave this thread for a day (will be back Wednesday Evening), I'd like to summon the folks I’ve met and played over the years; I’ve always considered you good players and friends, and would love your inputs.

In no particular order:

Minoru_Hoshi

Tempest-_-Dahlia

Lovebird-

LordKnight

SuperKawaiiDesu

OmniSScythe

9ball_Infinte

Moy_x7

WoZ_Screamer

LostSoul

SwordofToan

DemonWindBomb

LastStarSavior

Raiza57

Gigaitachi

Jason900

Cookiehour

Joeboy187

DJ_Blactricity

Crossfire

Pochp

Kirbster

Koopa_Klawz

NeoGioO

I know I’m forgetting a bunch, but let’s not forget Lieutenant. Get summoned in this thread plz!

[Daisy-Fan]

Sorry to bother with the youtube commnuity channel, what the best name we should call it? Kind like BBDL or BB DustLoop? i wish to get more. brainstorming this could be an nice idea if we are still yes for the youtube channel.

[zeth07]

Hi Zeth. Thanks for your thoughts. Always considered your thoughts to be fair and logical. Perhaps you're an engineering major?

On Tournaments - different formats

a. Invitationals sound great, and I do want to do those in the future. For now though, weekly tournaments limited by region with small prizes might get us in the right direction. I do want to get there, but I think timing will be better leading up to BBCP's release, or soon after.

b. I'm a little skeptical about starting a "league." It did cross my mind (just like... fantasy football!), but I want to maximize participation, and setting up a league with a buy-in might deter otherwise interested players. A consistent schedule of tournaments might be better.

c. I'm not sure if the "friendly league" would work out. I think One-shot deals with Prize promised up front is the best way to get people to show up. Having led 40 and 25 man raids (lolnerd), I know all too well when someone magically needs to bail when there's no chance for him to "get loot." A friendly league would be difficult to police, and might not offer the immediate gratification that we as people are all slaved to.

So Zeth, my idea so far would be to do an EST league (just like you set it up - was the connection OK w/ the midwest players?)

I'd like to post the date for this either late Wednesday night, or early Thursday. Then, I want to set up a donation drive, where until the first tournament, any donations made will be matched by me, provided it doesn't get me broke (lol). I'd like HK and Zeth to help me organize the tourney logistics, while I'll hammer out the prize/scheduling details.

Well the "league" can just be by name or I should say the group of rankings. Each tournament would be individual sign-ups, then the results are kept track either with the ranking points or match points, and all tournament rankings encompass the "league". There wouldn't need to be a buy-in in this case, the players just play and you get results from the tournaments that go towards the rankings.

The points could be done either with ranbat points, 10 for the winner, 7 for 2nd place, etc. Or if you do the other format, you could go by wins/losses for the ranking and do the match differential for anyone with the same record, 3-0 = +3, 2-3 = -1.

No matter how you do it, players who play more often will have more points or be higher ranked so you can't really avoid that without having it setup for specific players only which you don't want in this case. This is part of the reason I liked the Danisen League format more because strictly just participation didn't pad any "stats", you legitimately earned your rank and the more you played the more accurate it was (outside of specific scenarios). The issue with that was as mentioned, no immediate gratification.

I guess you have to try and find the balance between wanting people to just show up and play, and actively promoting leveling up each other's skills and making the community stronger. Some new player going 0-2 in a tournament isn't going to do much for them, and might even discourage participating again since it seems like they have no chance of winning. While being able to play a number of matches no matter what, and maybe even against equally skilled opponents seems more helpful and rewarding from a gameplay/learning standpoint.

As for including the Midwest, the problem there is you can't just say people within a set distance are ok (like Chicago) since if you go by time zones it would also include Texas, which I personally tend to lag with people from there. Again you gotta consider specific people's connections, so I guess it really is a moot point in the end. I will say in theory you should be less likely to lag with someone within your region then you are with someone farther away since that's common sense, which is reason enough to go by those standards.

One thing you could consider is "East of the Mississippi". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_the_Mississippi = "Eastern United States". Then you could just include Eastern Canada as well if you want since generally speaking the connection is usually good with them as well in most cases, Florida to Canada could be a problem though but I wouldn't know.

One thing that happens in pretty much every part of life is taking ideas from one place and using them yourself. This is exactly what the Dustloop / BlazBlue community should be doing in terms of "content". Look at all the fighting game sites and see what they are doing and replicate that to the best of our ability. Using the Topanga League is a good example. Having people do match commentaries is another. What Xie was doing is a part of that as well, although I think he went a little too far into the beginner territory but that's just me. They also do podcasts, in-depth tutorial videos, etc. Not saying players haven't done these things but I think "we" should always do more and actively try to put stuff out there on other sites as I mentioned before.

With that said, there's no reason not to do multiple tournament or league types if people are willing to organize them, just make sure they don't interfere with each other.

[Urichinan]

WoZ_Screamer

It's WoZscreamer and that's me! (I'm Uri_WoZ now on PSN, I switched titles so people would recognize Uri for Urichinan)

I've already stated one of my opinions, and that's about all I have to offer at this current time.

I'm definitely into the entire of idea of expanding and helping our netplay community, so I'll help in any way that I can.

[Daisy-Fan]

Did James Xie did an podcast? never know about it until now! I will sure go check it out by during this week if so. maybe with replays i can help out, however my Dazzle is not the best PVR of the world if you know what i meant here.