Priority comparisons?

[scrub]

Is there any list/chart/anything in existence that compares some of the priorities on characters' moves (at least covering things like jumpins and antiairs/dps)? I know personal experience would probably be best, but playing in an arcade brings a number of problems, not the least being a lack of character representation ~too many slayers, half the cast has no one playing them~. Still trying to get past things like Slayers/OS/Baiken aHS, Chipp aD, and Sol 5K, Johnny/Ky 6P, etc. I play a number of characters and some of the forums for them don't cover much more than a general 'these are your options' blurb. I guess the biggest problem is that every so often I try something and it works, then have trouble beating the same moves a second time. At some point, I'd like the assurance that beating out whatever is either impossible or not worth the risk, since a lot of the time it ends up with me going

[4r5]

There is no priority in Guilty Gear. Which is why there isn't already a grand list of what moves beat what moves. Everything in the game is just a combination of hit-boxes, attack-boxes, and timing. When one move beats another move, the other move could beat out the previous move with a change in either timing or positioning.

Have you read the gameplay faq?

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372

It doesn't really say much more then what I've said, but it does have some examples that might help you.

[scrub]

Mmm... I was under the impression that no games never specifically designed a priority mechanic, but that it was just a term players came up with to describe the likelihoods of moves to win against each other. In which case, it would of course assume that you'd be trying to optimize the advantages of whatever you'd be comparing, whether it be invincibility/active frames/hitboxes. I don't think it's entirely off-base - while I did note that many characters don't have too much info on how moves matched up, it's not entirely missing. Like from memory, somewhere in the Jam threads I remember someone posting that 5S will 90% of the time clash with Potemkin aD. I wouldn't believe anything to be foolproof, but isn't there some concept of 'normal use' wherein people wouldn't throw out moves in less-than-optimal situations? (Like... when people say Volcanic Viper wins against practically everything, it only implies the first few frames)

[scrub]

Is this a matter of labeling? I know that there would be no such thing as a priority ranking per se, I ask this only expecting something as concrete a comparison as, say, the tier list (meant as being equally situational). If people can come up with a ranking system for air-ground and ground-air like stated in the official tier thread, can't couldn't there also be something similar for whatever moves are considered high-priority? For instance, there's been some discussion over which 6Ps are 'good' for antiair (more or less a priority issue), and then there's the air moves that people would say always win (Jam aS?). So... what happens when you pit them up against each other? From what little I have seen, I would be saying something like: Slayer aHS hitbox seems to extend long enough to beat many 6Ps even despite their upper invincibility, and almost regardless of character. I know it isn't true all the time, I've also seen it lose out when thrown from too high up, too far out, or too late - but I would consider these abnormal circumstances. As a jump-in, it typically wins.

[Digital Watches]

Wull yeah, but you may as well just read frame data and listen to experienced players/become one yourself. Everything in the game is going to be too situational to make a concrete list, and the work involved would not be worth compiling a list that basically says "X move works against a lot of AAs, sometimes, if you time it right and space it well, but not against A, Q, and Z, but only if THEY do Y, but not if..." etc. And with that kind of vagueness, RANKING them of all things would be absolutely impossible. It's kind of patently absurd, no offense.

[Spirit Juice]

None of this really matters since forward EXE Beast beats everything.

[excelence]

solid answer @Spirit Juice : lol Reisen

[Xeno]

lol.

[scrub]

If i could figure it all out, I would, if anyone's ever did the work already, that's a lot of time saved. Arcade-only kinda limits how far you can experiment, I can't even get a match with most characters, between no one playing them or the continuing winner usually being the same 3-4 characters. Eehh, I wouldn't imagine that a chart of any kind had to be necessarily complex, not everyone has moves you cry 'broken...' over.

[purify]

That would be a lot of work. The best you can do with this is learn your character's hitboxes and their moves' attack boxes and in what situations they're likely to win in and use them accordingly. Things like this are discussed in the character forums on a match specific basis, in the Matchups subforums actually. If you want specific information, that's the way to go, and any significant issues with "this beating that" will be discussed.

[fabiano]

Best priotity in GG is air throw:yaaay:

[KA-GE-MA-TSU-RI]

Why are moves like for example Chipp's jH have more priority than basically anything else, because the meaty frames are huge, right?

[rtl42]

what are meaty frames

[Hellmonkey]

what are meaty frames?

Oh I get it.

Huge.

[Adelheid]

How huge are we talking here? Potemkin huge? Xbox huge? Between large and gargantuan huge? I need scale, man.

[Frank The Tank]

So... what happens when you pit them up against each other?

It depends on a ton of variables. Where are they in relation to each other? Who threw out their move first? What direction are the characters moving in? No one move, barring H EXE(lolz), will win in every possible situation, making any attempt to rank "priority" fairly useless.

I'll try anyways, though.

1. H EXE

2. everything else.

[4r5]

Unless someone can come up with a single, universal, method to measure the hitBox, attackBox, and collisionBox of every move in the game, I'd rather not see someone guess at where the boxes are. It's easy for Mugen people to do, since anyone with notepad can just see the exact numbers. It'd be more productive to just figure out how to enable the game's debug mode.

[KA-GE-MA-TSU-RI]

PC version of GG comes to mind... Anyone?

[4r5]

PC version would definitely be the easiest to work with, except it's two versions behind might be some use for those online players. but with all the lag, I don't know if they can take advantage of such exact information PS2 emulation could be another path. you'd be able to work with the latest game, and all the processes would be out in the open and you wouldn't have to deal with a black box

[Xeno]

I thought "Meaty" meant lengthy in time, and "Huge" meant size. Does H EXE beast really beat.. every ground move? (doesn't have AC)

[rtl42]

that's not what meaty means.

[Hellmonkey]

The guide actually describes it incorrectly (or at least gives the wrong impression). A meaty attack is an attack that is on the opponent as they wake up, generally when someone calls a move "really meaty" they refer to it being active over the opponent for a long period of time as they get up (like hitting toward the end of a ton of active frames). Frames are used as a measurement of time(GG runs at 60 frames per second), so calling frames huge or meaty doesn't make sense.

[Digital Watches]

I tend to also refer to moves as "hitting meaty" when they hit at later active frames for any other reason such as spacing or invulnerability, which is kind of the same concept, but strictly speaking, it's oki-only.

[Darkside937]

I thought "Meaty" meant lengthy in time, and "Huge" meant size. Does H EXE beast really beat.. every ground move? (doesn't have AC)

IIRC, HS EXE beats/trades with everything after the first couple of frames, since even hitting Testament doesn't cancel the beast. It's like a super poke :D Of course, I'm still pretty new at this myself, so take that with a grain of salt.

[Digital Watches]

IIRC, HS EXE beats/trades with everything after the first couple of frames, since even hitting Testament doesn't cancel the beast. It's like a super poke :D Of course, I'm still pretty new at this myself, so take that with a grain of salt.

To be exact, HS EXE beast can only be killed if testament is hit on the frame the command is inputted.

(It's in the frame data. Now there's a handy link from the guides (under Guilty Gear 302), which are also now conveniently linked at the top left of the forum.)