StarGazer Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Her only overhead can be used after 5a, 2a, (you can get mashed out or thrown out of during these 2 moves) 5b or 6a. Her poor jump in attack is one of the reasons for her poor mixups, because if she is going to use the jump cancel from 5b, 6a or 3c you are usually not going to hit crouching characters with your jumping attacks. If she has some kind of cover (totsuka, charged lasers or habakiri) then you can do some nice high or lows guessing games, but otherwise her mixups are not that good Noel, a rushdown character, have the same specs except with a slower overhead. Makoto too, her one and only high/low game comes after 2A, no 6A/5B into a safe high/low. Also don't ignore the fact that her Oki and pressure helps her mix up game a lot.
hipikachu Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Yup, only one move. It's still one of the riskiest moves in the game and, unlike other "risky" moves, missing it is pretty much a guaranteed FC punish for any attentive player. And, come now, I'd rather everybody admit that Mu's mixup sucks. She has two lows, one standing overhead, and a grab. That's it. That's pretty much the worst amount of mixup you can get without going to ridiculously poor levels. Mu's strong, yes, but she's definitely not without flaws, unlike what some people almost make her out to be. At least you can special cancel your overhead in the corner for marvelous reward. If you're playing Jin or Hazama, no one cares how amazing your overheads are when you can't do anything off them without CH or meter. Still, those two characters are still scary as hell, and Mu isn't any worse. Besides, Mu 6B is America unblockable
bakahyl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Noel, a rushdown character, have the same specs except with a slower overhead. Makoto too, her one and only high/low game comes after 2A, no 6A/5B into a safe high/low. Also don't ignore the fact that her Oki and pressure helps her mix up game a lot. Noel's normals are better on block than Mu's and can more easily continue her pressure. Noel also has more lows (3) She has more opportunity to use a throw with her normals she can cross you over with some of her drives if you are crouching to anticipate her overhead She also alot more opportunities to jump cancel her attacks and her air to ground is better than Mu Her drives also have some high and low properties, eventhough her low attack is rather slow Edited April 12, 2013 by bakahyl
Airk Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Something else people are forgetting about Mu is her ability to do j.C (Or j.B apparently?) > j.2C (or just j.2C in general because of the weird way it makes her pause in the air) to catch people lowblocking after blocking the first attack. And while j.C isn't a great air to ground, j.B is okay.
bakahyl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Something else people are forgetting about Mu is her ability to do j.C (Or j.B apparently?) > j.2C (or just j.2C in general because of the weird way it makes her pause in the air) to catch people lowblocking after blocking the first attack. And while j.C isn't a great air to ground, j.B is okay. While ok, you still need to use j.b late in a jump because it doesn't have that much hitbox under her and the 21 frames of recovery might be a problem if you use it too early. Most character can even use their 5a or 2a to stop it. Edited April 12, 2013 by bakahyl
Airk Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 While ok, you still need to use j.b late in a jump because it doesn't have that much hitbox under her and the 21 frames of recovery might be a problem if you use it too early. Most character can even use their 5a or 2a to stop it. You really need to play some other characters. Almost all air attacks can be stopped by a well timed 5A for the characters who can use their 5A for anti-air.
bakahyl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 You really need to play some other characters. Almost all air attacks can be stopped by a well timed 5A for the characters who can use their 5A for anti-air. I have nearly no problems with 5a or 2a (well the exception being the ones that are very low like litchi) my jump in's as jin and Relius. Also when i used ragna, platinum and hazama (not seriously) and they have also much better jump in's than Mu
StarGazer Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Noel's normals are better on block than Mu's and can more easily continue her pressure. Noel also has more lows (3) She has more opportunity to use a throw with her normals she can cross you over with some of her drives if you are crouching to anticipate her overhead She also alot more opportunities to jump cancel her attacks and her air to ground is better than Mu Her drives also have some high and low properties, eventhough her low attack is rather slow 1- while its true but that doesn't mean Mu can't do the same 2- Noel have 2b 2c, Mu have 2b 3c. Noel 3C is not used as a mix up. Anyway, having more lows barely helps 3- Mu can do the same and even better with lasers in pressure 4- Agreed, but Mu does have j.2c stuff too which can be as beneficial as 2D cross up 5- Agreed again but that doesn't have a great impact on her offense. Again Mu can jump and do j.B j.2C stuff which some players might finder better than what Noel can do 6- Noel drive mix ups are rather weak Don't bash me. I'm not saying that Mu mix ups are good but rather decent. But in the end her offense is still good as a whole even through her mix up is lacking.
YukiBlue Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Mu's mixup is not as good as Noels. Stop this crazy man talk.
bakahyl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Something else people are forgetting about Mu is her ability to do j.C (Or j.B apparently?) > j.2C (or just j.2C in general because of the weird way it makes her pause in the air) to catch people lowblocking after blocking the first attack. I forgot about this part. Some characters like Tsubaki and Platinum can do multiple arial attacks better and j.2c is not even that reliable in extend because of the 10 frames landing recovery. Even on hit you can't always get a combo from it and depending on your height, you can be even at a few frames disadvantage. Which happens alot when i do manage to hit the opponent, I am still very often forced to block or backdash upon landing because i will lose to mashing if i press buttons Also it has 5 frames gap (8 on IB) in it: you can get hit by most reversals and dp's (and possibly some AA on IB) if you mindlessly use j.c > j.2c. It does have FC properties, but it has a bad p1 and it will not lead to amazing damage outside of the corners. So the benefits of using j.2c does not outweight the risks in lots of occasions However j.2c has become better in CP (forcing crouch on hit and thus more reliable way to combo from it and ikutachi for better reward) , but we are still talking about extend Edited April 12, 2013 by bakahyl
Airk Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Why not? Because Mu has no equivalent for Noel's drive pressure, Muzzle Flitter or j.4D? Mu's pressure is better if she uses lasers, but her mixup isn't particularly fierce. j.2C is still a tool that shouldn't be forgetten, however.
StarGazer Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Make sense. I was mistaken, Mu mix up is weak indeed.
bakahyl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 j.2C is still a tool that shouldn't be forgetten, however. I overuse j.c> j.2c myself, but if i have to be honest i really shouldn't because of all the disadvantages XD I did manage to score a j.c > j.2c > Astral heat yesterday because the opponent that i played had almost no matchup experience against Mu. Eventhough i just did it for the lolz, because i didn't actually try to hitconfirm it.
Demon Wind Bomb Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Because Mu has no equivalent for Noel's drive pressure, Muzzle Flitter or j.4D? Mu's pressure is better if she uses lasers, but her mixup isn't particularly fierce. j.2C is still a tool that shouldn't be forgetten, however. You can mash 5a out of all of these. (sans muzzle filter)
KayEff Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 guys you should really stop talking about characters you know nothing about you know, so that we can get some actual posts just saying
hipikachu Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) You can mash 5a out of all of these. (sans muzzle filter) You can mash Valk, Haz, and Noel out with 5A and make them sad. Mu's specials aren't game-breaking, but many character's would kill for her set of normals. My particular favorite is her 2B. It's great for meaties/OTG, is faster than most character's 2Bs, and it's active frames are twice the average. Valkenhayn 2B makes me salty every day, and her's is even better. Noel's normals are better on block than Mu's and can more easily continue her pressure. Noel also has more lows (3) She has more opportunity to use a throw with her normals she can cross you over with some of her drives if you are crouching to anticipate her overhead She also alot more opportunities to jump cancel her attacks and her air to ground is better than Mu Her drives also have some high and low properties, eventhough her low attack is rather slow <1> Number of lows and usage of lows are two different things, Valky's single 6C makes Haz's two overheads look like nothing. <2> So you can't throw someone in turret pressure, but Noel can throw you in the middle of her own drive? I'm surprised you're not throwing her instead. <3> That Noel must be desperate if she's using 2D raw. I'm sorry you don't have a 5A, 6A, 5B, or even a 2C that can beat that out easily <4> Huh? <5> Boohoo. You didn't block d.6B and ate 1.8k D: Edited April 12, 2013 by hipikachu
Zeromus_X Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Wait are we seriously saying Noel has better mixup than Mu? I mean I guess Noel's staggers are a little better, but she doesn't have laser or bombs that give her 50/50s, free empty jump mixups, variable frame traps, crossups, and throw reject/throw bait setups. Also (low to the ground) airdash jB > j2C hits people a lot, and from that height, you can actually make j2C safe. They can always DP out of the startup if you overuse it, but at least they can't mash anything after blocking it. Anyway to stay on topic, I wouldn't stay Mu is a bad character to start out with execution-wise. Her combos are pretty easy and her oki setups are pretty simple to do. It can take a while to understand how to use all of her tools and put them together coherently, but she has a high reward for her learning curve. Overagressive rushdown characters will probably give you a problem starting out, so you'll have to learn how to use movement and where to use each of her normals to outpoke the opponent. On the other hand, once you do understand the neutral game, you can beat lower level players for free with neutral alone. Edited April 12, 2013 by Zeromus_X
Demon Wind Bomb Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Don't even need to mash, just grab her. Mash, grab, DP, Jump. Noel's mixup is only good if you respect her.
mAc Chaos Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Mu has great mixup. Why does everybody think her mixup is bad. They just need setups.
InWithTheAshes Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 We are getting off topic. Actually, we were getting off topic when we started giving Character summarries, but at least that was minorly productive. guys you should really stop talking about characters you know nothing about you know, so that we can get some actual posts just saying Oh and this.
bakahyl Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) You can mash Valk, Haz, and Noel out with 5A and make them sad. Mu's specials aren't game-breaking, but many character's would kill for her set of normals. My particular favorite is her 2B. It's great for meaties/OTG, is faster than most character's 2Bs, and it's active frames are twice the average. Valkenhayn 2B makes me salty every day, and her's is even better. <1> Number of lows and usage of lows are two different things, Valky's single 6C makes Haz's two overheads look like nothing. And noel's 6b or 3c make Mu's 6b or 3c look like nothing when it comes to reward but we were talking about mixups themselves. <2> So you can't throw someone in turret pressure, but Noel can throw you in the middle of her own drive? I'm surprised you're not throwing her instead. Noel's stagger pressure give her more opportunities to throw someone compared to the normals of Mu. <3> That Noel must be desperate if she's using 2D raw. I'm sorry you don't have a 5A, 6A, 5B, or even a 2C that can beat that out easily Depends, if i careless mash 5a, 5b, 6a or even 5c there is still a chance of her sliding 3c passing under my normals. At close range during her pressure string she can possibly cross you over with 2d though if you are crouching. While it is reactable, it's still counts as some kind of gimmicky mixup. <4> Huh? Mu can only jump cancel her 5a, 5b , 6a and 3c ( all 4 of these normals don't have that much range) and even with those jump cancels you are usually not going to dive into your opponent with her fairly weak jump in's unless you have something as a cover. <5> Boohoo. You didn't block d.6B and ate 1.8k D: Same can be said about Mu's 6b. You didn't block it at midscreen and you end up receiving 1,4k damage . Also Because Mu has no equivalent for Noel's drive pressure, Muzzle Flitter or j.4D? Mu's pressure is better if she uses lasers, but her mixup isn't particularly fierce. j.2C is still a tool that shouldn't be forgetten, however. edit: we do seem to be derailing this topic Edited April 12, 2013 by bakahyl
Recommended Posts