[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I never said it was impossible. But I personally think it's a bit of a shame to waste the 3D aspect like that. It would be really cool if they had an optional setting to disable/enable it. Tournies could then insist on enabling mirrored stuff for 1P/2P fairness. But honestly, I find that excuse a bit flimsy. You may as well start complaining that the stage background isn't totally symmetrical, or that some characters have more distracting clothing.

The only big thing I would consider "unfair" is the position of weapons, cuz a lot of characters hold their weapons in the background, while in the foreground they could be obscuring (Sol's gigantic sword). But with 3D, it's still fairly simple to simply have character's change hands on the fly without mirroring the rest of the outfit. Obviously with Ky/Sol it doesn't matter because their outfits are symmetrical anyway. But for character's like say, Testament/Faust it would be a nice way to preserve the slight asymmetrical aspect of their outfits.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[Hecatom]

I never said it was impossible. But I personally think it's a bit of a shame to waste the 3D aspect like that. It would be really cool if they had an optional setting to disable/enable it. Tournies could then insist on enabling mirrored stuff for 1P/2P fairness. But honestly, I find that excuse a bit flimsy. You may as well start complaining that the stage background isn't totally symmetrical, or that some characters have more distracting clothing.

Is all about the gameplay, not mirroing could potentially change what works and what doesn't, we have already seen this on MK9 for example, where there are combos that only work if your character and/or opponent is looking at the screen or with his/her back to it.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Is all about the gameplay, not mirroing could potentially change what works and what doesn't, we have already seen this on MK9 for example, where there are combos that only work if your character and/or opponent is looking at the screen or with his/her back to it.

I imagine they'd just use 2D hitboxes for hit detection, like they already do. In which case the 3D models themselves wouldn't (shouldn't) make any difference at all. Not only are 2D hitboxes far more fair and reliable, but 3D mesh collision detection takes that much more processing power. If they go for model mirroring, which they have good chance of doing, it'll be because of "1P/2P fairness" as was mentioned earlier, which I do understand.

I think MK wonkiness came from the fact that it has some special properties regarding facing-up or facing-down, and maybe even feet-away/feet-towards when downed. I dunno, I never seriously played that game. I know SC has lots of retarded issues with custom characters. If my memory serves, couldn't you manually change your "stance" IN MK?

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[White Man]

Lol wut? The SF3 series was considered for a long time a failure not only by the fans but for capcom, it wasn't until many years later that it got more exposure, and still wasn't as strong as other games like the Alpha series and the CvS series, if anything it shows that the fans want some sort of familiarity.

New Generation got a lukewarm reception because the cast was tiny, the balance was a joke, and the gameplay was sluggish compared to other fighters that were popular at the time. And it still did well enough for Capcom to release 2nd Impact, which was received much better. Third Strike did reasonably well upon its release and enjoyed a longer tenure in tournaments than just about any other game from that era. Point is, the mostly new roster didn't sink the game.

On the topic of asymmetrical models, I would imagine it shouldn't be a problem as long as the hit boxes remain the same on the P1 and P2 sides. Didn't Under Night In-Birth use different sprites for some characters/attacks depending on which way they were facing? How'd they handle the issue in that game?

[Hecatom]

I imagine they'd just use 2D hitboxes for hit detection, like they already do. In which case the 3D models themselves wouldn't (shouldn't) make any difference at all. I think MK wonkiness came from the fact that has some special properties regarding facing-up or facing-down, and maybe even feet-away/feet-towards when downed.

Not only are 2D hitboxes far more fair and reliable, but 3D mesh collision detection takes that much more processing power.

Lol, are you really incapable to see the disadvantages that it would bring into the table just to take advantage that they are in 3d now?

Even if they use (and i hope they do) 2d hitboxes you still have to deal with moves being masked because you are looking at the back of the character, being able to read clearly what your opponent is doing is important on FG's.

I am not saying that it can't be done, but it could bring a lot of nuisance to the players.

New Generation got a lukewarm reception because the cast was tiny, the balance was a joke, and the gameplay was sluggish compared to other fighters that were popular at the time. And it still did well enough for Capcom to release 2nd Impact, which was received much better. Third Strike did reasonably well upon its release and enjoyed a longer tenure in tournaments than just about any other game from that era. Point is, the mostly new roster didn't sink the game.

Still, that doesn't change the fact that for capcom sf3 was considered a failure for many years, to the point that they decided to make sf4 an interquel between sf2 and sf3.

SF3 simply didn't get that love from the masses, hell that its why there was a meme where people where asking themselves when sf3 was released while seeing the announcement of sf4.

Hell, 3s is loathed by a good chunk of the FGC, just look at the (in)famous post of Viscant on SRK.

On the topic of asymmetrical models, I would imagine it shouldn't be a problem as long as the hit boxes remain the same on the P1 and P2 sides. Didn't Under Night In-Birth use different sprites for some characters/attacks depending on which way they were facing? How'd they handle the issue in that game?

The characters only have some differences on how they are drawn, think about them as Gill from SF3, otherwise they still behave the same mirrowing all the other elements like with what hand they use their weapons.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Hecatom

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Lol, are you really incapable to see the disadvantages that it would bring into the table just to take advantage that they are in 3d now?

No need to be so confrontational. Also:

If they go for model mirroring, which they have good chance of doing, it'll be because of "1P/2P fairness" as was mentioned earlier, which I do understand.

On a semi-related note, I'm very eager to see how they do Faust in 3D. His movelist is something that's a helluva lot easier to do in sprite form.

3D Arakune sounds like it would be a bitch as well...

Honestly the single best thing about 3D models is that

some crazy JP modder is going to make nude mods for your waifu.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[White Man]

Still, that doesn't change the fact that for capcom sf3 was considered a failure for many years, to the point that they decided to make sf4 an interquel between sf2 and sf3.

The reason they set SF4 after 2 was because Capcom wanted the game to be a spiritual successor to 2. SF2 also has the most iconic cast, which served their purposes of using them to help reboot the SF franchise for a new generation. Even then, they ended up importing some characters from SF3 later because so many people were asking for them.

But hey man, whatever. This is kind of becoming a silly argument to have. All I was ever trying to say with the whole different roster deal was I don't want to see Xrd come in and steamroll AC. Regardless of how you feel about the BB vs. GG issue, one thing that can be said for ASW is that they never tried to push for BB to replace GG; both games had their own thing going on. I hope something similar happens with Xrd. Because as much as I'm looking forward to the game, AC remains one of my favorite fighters ever and I'd rather not see everyone instantly drop it when the new game comes along, which is less likely to happen if AC can hold onto some exclusive content.

Either way... Long live Guilty Gear.

[Pete278]

No need to be so confrontational. Also:

On a semi-related note, I'm very eager to see how they do Faust in 3D. His movelist is something that's a helluva lot easier to do in sprite form.

3D Arakune sounds like it would be a bitch as well...

Honestly the single best thing about 3D models is that

some crazy JP modder is going to make nude mods for your waifu.

I eagerly await the nude Bridget mods.

[felipebwk]

No need to be so confrontational. Also:

On a semi-related note, I'm very eager to see how they do Faust in 3D. His movelist is something that's a helluva lot easier to do in sprite form.

3D Arakune sounds like it would be a bitch as well...

Honestly the single best thing about 3D models is that

some crazy JP modder is going to make nude mods for your waifu.

I eagerly await the nude Bridget mods.

WTF! Nooooo... forget it, just play the game ok.

[Son of a Gun]

Damn, I really need more than this trailer, I'm so hyped right now.

Long live Guilty Gear!

[Star-Demon]

I would like to see new characters, for sure.

[Sophisticat]

So long as Slayer and HOS are in, I'm cool with the roster.

I'm sure we'll see new chars too. Don't see why not if they're easier to make this time 'round. It's a new GG, anyway. It needs some new chars to make it fresh.

[YoYoCheese]

I'm pulling for Raven, That Man, and Izuna myself.

July, Gabriel, Tyr, and Fanny would be cool.

I expect Sin to be in. Dr. Paradigm and Valentine are maybes. Crow could maybe get in with a mech suit of some kind. I kind of want Mizuha.

I think that Judgment is dead, though a toned down version would be cool. (Not that being dead stops Kliff or Justice, not to mention the fact that we have Order-Sol.)

Edited May 20, 2013 by YoYoCheese

[Lucalibur]

So long as Slayer and HOS are in, I'm cool with the roster.

Quoted for agreement.

[SolxBaiken]

I'm pulling for Raven, That Man, and Izuna myself.

July, Gabriel, Tyr, and Fanny would be cool.

I expect Sin to be in. Dr. Paradigm and Valentine are maybes. Crow could maybe get in with a mech suit of some kind. I kind of want Mizuha.

I think that Judgment is dead, though a toned down version would be cool. (Not that being dead stops Kliff or Justice, not to mention the fact that we have Order-Sol.)

Sin, Raven, That Man, and Valentine, all valid choices...

But who would want to see Gabriel D: and please no, no Xtra characters ; w; Franny could make a good alternative to Faust. Crow is a terrible character, no one wants to see him "fight" (of which he'd probably be just like AC+/the Kokonoe in where he just gets shitty Justice fakes to fight lol)

Meh on Judgment, but this game could use some LEOPALDON! (and I'm not even trying to troll)

Just from their little exchange there's a good chance of the bounty Sol seeks being a new character. But yeah I expect the initial arcade roster to consist of 6:4 in terms of new to old, the initial console release to have more returning to build hype, and the planned DLC to include even more returning to lock in dem nostalgia dollars.

[4r5]

This has been in development for at least 5 years. I hope the long development is because they are bringing over all the existing characters. How disappointing it would be to have played a character for 10+ years and then get excited for a new GG, but then later hear your character isn't in.

[Suzaku]

Sin, Raven, That Man, and Valentine, all valid choices...

Sin and Raven seem like they'd be shoe-ins, to me. Raven's been around since X+, and has been playable, but not in a fighting game. Sin's a pretty major character in his own right and was sort of GG2's flagship character.

Maybe Valentine, there's supposed to be more of her out there. I'd like to see something more than just a blank, emotionless copy of Aria, but they could perhaps use a version of Valentine as an interesting stand-in for Justice.

That Man... I'm not holding my breath, but who knows?

Gabriel is supposed to be really strong (he gives Chipp a beatdown in one of the novels) but I'm not sure if there would be enough interest.

Fanny would be interesting, but I'd rather see Faust/Baldhead.

Crow is interesting in that he's pretty much the only representative of the PWAB that we have. He's also got the same voice actor as Raven, and a similar name, which is weird. Plus it's hinted that he's Japanese (real name Kurou Kuruwaba, 郭羽 九郎) and that he knows, or knew, Johnny's master, and is regarded as a traitor. I could see him being one of Hirofumi's former students, so he could be a swordsman.

It's hard for me to imagine Paradigm being playable, given his weird proportions and fighting style. Izuna would be cool, but I think there are other XX characters that would fill a similar purpose on the roster and have more fans.

I certainly don't envy whoever is making the decisions on the roster.

But, hey, maybe it being in 3D means that they can create more characters more quickly.

[TPPR10]

As long as Robo-Ky comes back, i don't care about rest of the roster

[Hecatom]

...this game could use some LEOPALDON! (and I'm not even trying to troll)...

Is hard to believe with that kind of statements

This has been in development for at least 5 years. I hope the long development is because they are bringing over all the existing characters. How disappointing it would be to have played a character for 10+ years and then get excited for a new GG, but then later hear your character isn't in.

QFT

[SolxBaiken]

This has been in development for at least 5 years. I hope the long development is because they are bringing over all the existing characters. How disappointing it would be to have played a character for 10+ years and then get excited for a new GG, but then later hear your character isn't in.

Welcome to Fighters? (SF Alpha, SF3, initial SF4, numerous KoFs. Soul Calibur V, non-home versions of Darkstalkers, Marvel. etc.)

I'm sure everyone will make it back eventually, and while I'd like to see everyone come back from the get go, I think that's wishful thinking.

Is hard to believe with that kind of statements

You clearly have no idea how much I like Leopaldon v.v But I know he's jokes and will never come back again ; -;

[Kitsoru]

/dusts off account

I also agree with White Man RE: new game, new kind of experience building on the previous ones. Even though Overture sucked balls it was still a try at something new which I can appreciate, so I'm hoping this will be something of a new experience as well. Definitely rooting for new characters (Sin/Izuna/Raven plz). Fanny would be interesting, hadn't thought of her in a while.

Welcome to Fighters? (SF Alpha, SF3, initial SF4, numerous KoFs. Soul Calibur V, non-home versions of Darkstalkers, Marvel. etc.)

I'm sure everyone will make it back eventually, and while I'd like to see everyone come back from the get go, I think that's wishful thinking.

^

He has claimed in the past that he would rather have someone that does it for a living take over. Nakata has always voiced Sol outside of in game quotes. Daisuke even mentioned at a panel once that he had to knock back a few drinks before he could even convince himself to get into the recording booth. lol

OT but I actually wonder if they recast Sol as George Nakata instead of Hikaru Hanada (who had been doing it since I think GGX+(?) story, including all drama CD's through Side Red/Black) because Nakata is a better known/famous voice actor... That sort of makes me sad since I honestly think Hanada's performance was better for Sol. Meh.

Anyway I'm still trying to process what we can see so far from the trailer and if we can't discuss gameplay then how about art direction. I agree with comments that Sol's proportions look a bit off (I'm fine with beefy but he looks squat? think it's those calves) and; wondering what's that necklace around Ky's neck? It's not his usual crucifix.

[Amadeus46Art]

...Sin's a pretty major character in his own right and was sort of GG2's flagship character...

...Gabriel is supposed to be really strong (he gives Chipp a beatdown in one of the novels) but I'm not sure if there would be enough interest.

haw unintentional puns

Also, according to Slayer at least, Gabriel taught Potemkin his fighting style and such. So I'm kinda doubting he'd join the roster unless they can vary his playstyle/fighting style up enough and even then I don't think there's much demand. The rest of what you said sounds about right though. Sin and Raven are important enough and popular enough to be in for sure I think.

[Afrikaan]

This has been in development for at least 5 years. I hope the long development is because they are bringing over all the existing characters. How disappointing it would be to have played a character for 10+ years and then get excited for a new GG, but then later hear your character isn't in.

Looking at it from a realistic standpoint, even if making 3D models is a quicker process, you're still trying to convert a 20+ man roster to a new completely artstyle/design, that alone is a ton of work and you haven't even begun tweaking movesets and the like. I'd like to think everyone from original XX back is a solid bet to return, but characters I'd think would be first in line on the chopping block would be Justice/Kliff (Obviously) and A.B.A if they were to go in that direction. HOS maybe but obviously he'd be easier to implement. And like said earlier, they could always add those characters back in say the console version of the game.

I mean I sure as hell hope we get all the AC crew back plus 3-4 new characters but that's expecting a bit much.

[BladeOfJustice7]

If Order-Sol represents Sol in the past, but "modern" Sol has changed considerably since AC/overture, does that mean Order Sol will now look like AC Sol in terms of attire but still have his old attacks?

I have a feeling that Order Sol will be dlc or something like that. Glad to see the GG roster getting a change of clothes.

[Mumm-Ra]

Yeah I agree UMvC3 is so slow with all those character inserts during supers.

It's slower than MvC2 wich doesn't have cutscenes