destruction_adv Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 It seems that way (i am actually sure that they are), which means that we could see a more indepth story mode and cinematic IKs on the future I really hope some IKs get redone. some are just sorta anticlimactic (looking at you Napalm Death/ Rising Force)
Hecatom Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I really hope some IKs get redone. some are just sorta anticlimactic (looking at you Napalm Death/ Rising Force) I liked more the old Ky's IK, it looked cooler
Volt Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I really hope some IKs get redone. some are just sorta anticlimactic (looking at you Napalm Death/ Rising Force) They are even worse than Mu's old astral in BB. By the way, it looks like the balancing of Xrd is going to be different that AC+R considering Sol's Dustloop returned. What do you guys expect?
Narroo Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 That's a completely ridiculous assertion. If you think that the amount of practice required to do a thing is entering into the risk-reward decisions of anyone playing at a high competitive level, you are simply mistaken. Yeah, stuff like slashbacks that are interactive and require you to predict what's going to happen are never going to be reliable, and that's probably a good thing. But if we're talking about things that don't have side effects, like not dropping your combo, or getting your FRC, then for high-level players it is simply a non-issue. They've already practiced. They have it down. If they need to do it, they can do it. Period. Full stop. Give ASW some credit here: If they balanced their game based on stuff like that, people would not take the game seriously, because that is in no sense a valid constraint for balance. It is if you like CT Arakune!
Narroo Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I think it's pretty reasonable to assert that a certain amount of balancing is reflected in their decision to give certain attacks certain commands. I doubt Potemkin Buster would still be a three-frame command throw if it had a 214 input instead of a 632146. Correct. I mentioned this before. Someone wrote an article about this, but it's gone now. This is a good kind of execution barrier, if you want to find my post a few pages back.
Hecatom Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 They are even worse than Mu's old astral in BB. By the way, it looks like the balancing of Xrd is going to be different that AC+R considering Sol's Dustloop returned. What do you guys expect? Right now that could be there mostly to show stuff for nostalgia reasons or to show that they can replicate old stuff on the new engine.
SuperJ Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 from watching japanese ranbats, if a player accidentally picks a wrong character, it's most likely sol/ky. therefore it's remarkably convenient that their IKs finish the quickest obviously just a coincidence and the +r card system eliminates these accidents but I guess those seconds saved are worth it
SolxBaiken Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Everyone's IKs need to be ass spanking new! I didn't wait 10 years to see the same things, harumph! ' ^' Also bring back the original GG element where if I pull one off, that's THE END of the game, no exceptions ' w'
Blade Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 My concern about Guilty Gear's accessibility has more to do with taking the game at face value and enjoying it simply for that. Basically what I mean is, all those gamers out there with the attention span of a housefly probably won't get in to GG unless they can just pick it up and play it whilst understanding the jist of the story and liking the characters. Liking the characters is a key motivator for some towards actually LEARNING how to play those characters and understanding how the game's system mechanics work. There's players out there who feel uncomfortable playing GG simply because of the character designs alone...not even talking about the game's system. Yes yes, Metal is the Devil's Music and all that... So they play Street Fighter because apparently everybody and his mom plays Street Fighter. And this has absolutely nothing to do with game complexity...just P.R. Heck, some people don't like Ky because he looks like a woman now...if that keeps players from buying the game I will be sad. Granted, not everyone is going to like the game (there's always haters), but it wouldn't hurt to make things a bit more...I dunno...receptive and welcoming to those new to GG, would it? Like throwing a party for new guests, sorta thing...
Narroo Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Everyone's IKs need to be ass spanking new! I didn't wait 10 years to see the same things, harumph! ' ^' Also bring back the original GG element where if I pull one off, that's THE END of the game, no exceptions ' w' It's not like people use them often anyways. I can imagine a 5 round match with someone loosing 4 rounds in a row and getting an IK off. That would be so entertaining.
reaVer Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Sorry, but I cannot resist. And no, I didn't miss the point. You're missing mine and you're reflecting that on me. Complexity =/= hard. Which is my complaint. Yes it is, you make a game fundamentally harder to play by adding to it's complexity. What makes Guilty Gear complex is the array of options that it gives to the player, but outside stuff like FRC's and Slashbacks everything is actually easy to learn. Also, read my example of why FRC are "hard", if anything only a very few of them are actually hard, the rest of them are very doable. Every mechanic in GG is easy to learn, even slashbacks, even FRCs. The problem is applying them in a match and knowing when they are being applied to you; that is where the complexity comes from. That is why Kusoru was successful with his GV spam, because he was playing a game most people weren't even prepared for. One more thing, like it or not, execution is a valid way to balance risk reward ratio. For newer players yes, but like I've stated over and over: EXECUTION IS A NON-FACTOR IN HIGH LEVEL PLAY. IT ONLY AFFECTS NEWER PLAYERS, OFTEN IN A BAD WAY. I sincerely hate this shit mentallity where everyone thinks that they should to be able to pull out the high level play stuff without requiring practice. It is called high level play for a reason, this are people that are able to use the tools of their characters to its peak, people who practice to make everything they do consistently. There is a limit of how much you can simplify everything. High level play isn't nailing your FRCs or inputs. High level play is applying all the mechanics and outthinking your opponent(which presumably is also high level). And that by definition requires practice. So as stated earlier, noone is expecting newer players to step into the game as top level players, but the execution on some mechanics just isn't beneficial to newer players while in long term it doesn't even affect high level players. Execution is not a balancing mechanic, just for the earlier stated reasons: it doesn't affect high level players where balance is actually important.
Hecatom Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 For newer players yes, but like I've stated over and over: EXECUTION IS A NON-FACTOR IN HIGH LEVEL PLAY. IT ONLY AFFECTS NEWER PLAYERS, OFTEN IN A BAD WAY. High level play isn't nailing your FRCs or inputs. High level play is applying all the mechanics and outthinking your opponent(which presumably is also high level). And that by definition requires practice. So as stated earlier, noone is expecting newer players to step into the game as top level players, but the execution on some mechanics just isn't beneficial to newer players while in long term it doesn't even affect high level players. Execution is not a balancing mechanic, just for the earlier stated reasons: it doesn't affect high level players where balance is actually important. Oh lord :facepalm: Balancing trough execution is not related to be able to do something consistently, is about how and when are you able to use something. How many times do i need to explain this or why the FRC's are done as they are? How many times do i need to post the alternatives as well to show that i am not against of giving alternatives to make them more accesible while not compromising their functionallity or how the work and behave? And stop bringing High Level play for god sake, it is high level play for a damn reason, those are people who train to do everything consistently. Everytime that someone brings it i only hear whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaa i can't pull what they do, but i don't want to invest time like they do.
SolxBaiken Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 It's not like people use them often anyways. I can imagine a 5 round match with someone loosing 4 rounds in a row and getting an IK off. That would be so entertaining. I guarantee you, that even if they stayed bad, if they ended games like in OG GG, people would go out of their way to do them. Grand Finals, down to the wire, ROUND 1 > IK > Game over because... Also guys we were doing so well dropping the previous subject .v.
Digital Watches Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 One day, ice will cover these lands, and it will be as if this war never happened.
Kitsoru Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Hmm. As far as HUD and graphical changes, I'm not sure I like for example the 'launch' cut scenes we saw in the trailer for dusts or Overdrives (the TR and RTL ones), as some mentioned it would affect the pace of the game during play and GG's pace is a really important part of its feel I think. I would absolutely love for there to be animated intros/outros and story segments, however, and this is something I'm extremely excited about. I also think that the possibility in adapting the animations for things like bursts, clashes, and barriers to be 3D will be really cool. And yeah, Rising Force and Napalm Death are both extremely outdated (and their GG1 IK's were so much better...) so looking forward to some new 3D material there.
CyberAkuma Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Honestly, I can see both as a valid option; developers aren't going to just up and abandoned the old consoles immediately, there will still be a market at least till about 2015ish but I think it largely also depends if they're using Unreal 3 or 4, if it's the former, it should make that much easier, if it's the latter well I'm not sure how compatible 4 is with older systems if at all. Well, we got confirmation that it's UE3. Direct from one of the Epic personnel themselves... The new Guilty Gear game uses Unreal Engine 3. Awesome sprite vs. 3D comparison http://i.imgur.com/BzOfvAy.jpg found by @maurymountain #ggxrd - https://twitter.com/danacowley/status/337573729095790594 And the picture is the same Sol sprite comparison thing that has made the rounds. If we combine that with 4r5's tidbit: Friend who was at a conference and spoke with Ishiwatari's assistant. That would do plenty to put this in line with Ishiwatari's earlier statements from like 3-4 years ago where he said that he "intends to make a GG game for PS3/360", among others.
SolxBaiken Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Cool, but yeah there's definitely possibility of a next gen port [we know Arc loves them some ports]
Volt Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Also bring back the original GG element where if I pull one off, that's THE END of the game, no exceptions ' w' I don't even know why they took that off, you can't combo into any IK's and is extremely weird to see the destroyed screen and after that the opponent ready for another round. Regarding the discussion: It got boring and pointless, the mechanics are good, they probably won't change them, high level play is having every option avaliable for both players and both players trying to outsmart each other to being able to combo the opponent's character and drop its hp to 0, execution is being able to do something consitently and any inputs should be able to be executed consistenly even if they're hard to do, Inputs actually affect balancing (it doesn't matter if you can do a 720 30 times in a row, it's slower than doing a 236), every mechanic may be easy to learn but they are hard to master. Now that this was explained, stop this discussion. It's getting nowhere.
CyberAkuma Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Cool, but yeah there's definitely possibility of a next gen port [we know Arc loves them some ports] Oh, of course. But I'd be surprised if they waited on that a bit until the PS4 (and XBone?) have had some time to develop an audience (or at least, until ASW had a better idea of if their target audience had gotten around to buying one or the other a few years in). Xrd port for PS4/XBone before Mori's new PS4-level game was ready to be ported from arcades? I could see that.
SolxBaiken Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 We probably won't see the game in arcades till the end of this year/early next. And the current gen port probably won't go into production and release until another 6mo~year so by then I'm sure the dust will have settled from PS4/X1/...WiiU? to determine where to go from there, and even so it will probably be another 4mo~year to event sort out all those details. So I'm sure we'll be good = w=b
Hecatom Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 You are surely optimistic, i actually think that we wouldn't see the game until winter 2014 to summer 2015, something its telling me that they will take more time.
SolxBaiken Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I have a feeling they have alot more done than they're willing to show off; I think at the latest an arcade release of Q3 2014 is reasonable, if this doesn't release in arcades until Q2 of 2015, then yeah, don't think they'll bother with a current gen port and move straight on to making it next gen as by then [arguably a Q1 2016 release at the earliest] I expect nothing but swan songs coming out on PS3 and 360. I don't think Arc would've shown their cards if they weren't making a focused effort on this project especially.
Hecatom Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 That is true, and i also feel that they are not showing everything that they have, but i also have this feeling that they will take some time before releasing the game to arcades, plus giving their track record with other games, once they make the 1st announcement it seems that it takes a year or a little more before releasing it. I have to say, that i am surprised that this is still UE3, it makes it look really beutiful and almost makes me forget how much i hate that engine, lol
Volt Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 It could be like Zelda TP, it was on development for the game cube and when the wii was launched it got ported for the wii and released in both consoles. After all, they wouldn't want to lose all the progress they did in the PS3 version because that would mean that they would lose money. Not to mention that since the PS4 will not have backwards compatibility a cross-gen release would be great for those who don't want to buy the PS4 while it doesn't have much games and those who already have it.
Blade Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I personally miss the GG1 "Instant Kill Battle" system. Regardless of who initiates the "IK Poke" (which is guard cancellable and can cancel from anything): 1. You either do your IK input, or do an "evade" input. Your opponent can do the same. 2. If your opponent does IK input faster than you...you get IK'd instead (turning the tables). 3. If you or your opponent "evade" you "MISS" and you trade positions with them. 4. If you both "MISS" then you get a "push back" separation like getting hit with a Burst. At the very least they could put it in GG Mode.
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