Sophisticat Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Considering Tager, I think Pot is exactly where they want him.
XXXDC Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 God it was so nice to finally see Konsome and FAB not getting destroyed kicking some asses Those were some happy 50mins http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/b/507306250 Considering Tager, I think Pot is exactly where they want him. Lets hope not (god, they even nerfed Tager for the new BB patch).
Casper Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 man you guys are right. pot isnt only lacking tools, he doesnt even get rewarded for making good reads... i'm watching these archives and FAB is sometimes making 4-5 great reads in a round and still losing. his damage is lackluster. on the topic of wakeup blitz shield: http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/b/507350678 at 2:20 in this vid you can see FAB wakeup with bs AND get the reversal indicator which seems like pretty solid proof to me.
D.R.F. Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Yea its real painful to watch pot players work unrealistically hard and get nothing. Pots go in to get pushed right out and combos seem neutered now Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Mumm-Ra Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 I'm also worried about potemkin, hopefully they buff him in xrd #r, vs. potemkin's always been one of my favorite matchups to play against/watch, forces you to use you brain than most of the cast, although now that I think about it, since they want to make the game more accesible maybe what's why pot's so weak in this version?
D.R.F. Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Idk, im pretty sure there are better ways of changing to pot in order to make him easier to play. Besides scrub/people new to a certain game Will always have trouble against grapplers. They just will not understand what to watch for. Hell this is for characters in general Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
SuperJ Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 maybe the developers thought "well potemkin gets to 6H you every time he RCs" i dunno he does look pretty sad in this game. he gets... 2P-5P meterless off pot buster if he touches the corner? lol the devs probably know something we don't random cool venom combo: 2K-c.S(3) xx QV, 5P (ball hits), iad j.S-H-D, 6H xx ball set
D.R.F. Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Pot doesn't have an air pot buster anymore too right? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Mumm-Ra Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) Well yeah, but remember how mori said that "noone has fun fighting grapplers"? that philosophy might've seeped into ASW's Red Team after seeing Blue Team's success in reeling in the new players with Blazblue and its crappy yet loveable grappler. Hopefully I'm wrong though. Also yeah, no more air pb, no 2s vaccum, no heat nuckle kd, no 6k overhead. Can't see pot being anything more than low tier in the meantime, but it's been only one week so hopefully things change in the game's future. 6k is that tackle right? What's any good about it? Edited March 1, 2014 by Mumm-Ra
D.R.F. Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Man fuck tager lol. He is shit compared to the "protector of zeppian skies!" Overall thoufh its been a week, so I'm still crossing my fingers Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
HoudiniJr100 Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Man fuck tager lol. He is shit compared to the "protector of zeppian skies!" Overall thoufh its been a week, so I'm still crossing my fingers Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk Pot. had a meter-costing air command grab. I think thats why...would've LOVED air pot buster though.
Henaki Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) Well yeah, but remember how mori said that "noone has fun fighting grapplers"? This is the fault of the developers, not the archtype. People design shitty, binary grapplers instead of ones that are more consistent and have more controlled defensive options. People hate grapplers because they remove a lot of options or win of RPS situations (which feels more like luck than skill). The more you minimize the impact of RPS and create less situations where a grappler can mash out of your blockstrings (which is why I think 720s are shitty design), the less frustrating grapplers are to play. Grapplers are still fundamentally the characters that take the most damage and win off reads (again, feels like winning through luck instead of skill), so they'll always be more frustrating than other archtypes, but there's ways to curtail this without subtracting from the grappler player's experience. Potemkin not having a 720 is one of the best parts of potemkin, they can afford to give him stuff that they can't give tager because tager can always win off two dicerolls which is terrible design. Even the threat of winning of diceroll feels AWFUL. I don't care if devs adhere to anti-frustration based design (which is very good for game health and long term competitive play). I just hate it when they don't do it right because they don't understand WHY things are frustrating. The nerfs are affecting the symptom, not the cause. Edited March 1, 2014 by Henaki
Mumm-Ra Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 I agree with you, but we know that most people would rather take the easy way out and design a shit grappler than making a well designed one if that helps stopping the whining from the newcomers, wich xrd is attempting to reel in.
Henaki Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 I agree with you, but we know that most people would rather take the easy way out and design a shit grappler than making a well designed one if that helps stopping the whining from the newcomers, wich xrd is attempting to reel in. It's very easy to make a well designed grappler. Here's the first thing you do: Don't make Tager when you design around anti-frustration. They made a character that is intentionally frustrating lol I really hope that Potemkin is just what happens when they erred on the side of caution, and he gets a reasonable buff. He doen't need a lot imo, and he's like, probably Kanji tier which is playable enough for me.
HoudiniJr100 Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 It's very easy to make a well designed grappler. Here's the first thing you do: Don't make Tager when you design around anti-frustration. They made a character that is intentionally frustrating lol I really hope that Potemkin is just what happens when they erred on the side of caution, and he gets a reasonable buff. He doen't need a lot imo, and he's like, probably Kanji tier which is playable enough for me. Kanji is the mobile grappler with risk and reward. Pot could possibly be that ifarc plays their cards right...and make a follow up grapple to ICPM
SuperJ Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 you can YRC ICPM and get the velocity boost, right? if so you could see potemkins start doing nasty left-rights off full screen slidehead into sj. YRC ICPM. definitely something he's never had before if it's possible
zdravkelja Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 This is the fault of the developers, not the archtype. People design shitty, binary grapplers instead of ones that are more consistent and have more controlled defensive options. People hate grapplers because they remove a lot of options or win of RPS situations (which feels more like luck than skill). The more you minimize the impact of RPS and create less situations where a grappler can mash out of your blockstrings (which is why I think 720s are shitty design), the less frustrating grapplers are to play. Grapplers are still fundamentally the characters that take the most damage and win off reads (again, feels like winning through luck instead of skill), so they'll always be more frustrating than other archtypes, but there's ways to curtail this without subtracting from the grappler player's experience. Potemkin not having a 720 is one of the best parts of potemkin, they can afford to give him stuff that they can't give tager because tager can always win off two dicerolls which is terrible design. Even the threat of winning of diceroll feels AWFUL. I don't care if devs adhere to anti-frustration based design (which is very good for game health and long term competitive play). I just hate it when they don't do it right because they don't understand WHY things are frustrating. The nerfs are affecting the symptom, not the cause. Good post! That's why Pot is the only grappler in any game that I enjoy playing against. 720s are the worst. Pot doesn't have 720 but he had a lot of interesting tools that made him cool.
NesmerII Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Hi everyone. Been lurking around dustloop for way too long and decided it was finally time to get into the hype/discussion/discussion-hype/whatever. I main Potemkin, but am basically a noob for all intents and purposes. Know most of the lingo/terminology/strategy, just can't do it to save my life. But yeah, I really hope Pot gets some utility back. No 2S vacuum is, I think, one of the most grievous nerfs to ol' Pot, especially because I noticed FAB consistently do it out of what was probably muscle memory in some of the earlier tournament footage, only to have it knock his opponent away, causing him to then wiff heat knuckle. In terms of the concept of "anti-frustration" grappler design, would turning the now amusing novelty of ICPM into an unblockable air grab ("sticks" the opponent while they are airborne) go against such a philosophy? On one hand, it would give ICPM some versatility: Either YRC for movement or try and nab your opponent when they try and jump in. On the other hand, that could be seen as a "cheap" and overly simplified alternative to something that could be more "combo-able" like air-Pot-buster. And finally, has anyone even done ANYTHING with Pot's flame pillar move? I feel like the slight delay could be used for oki if it hits a bit on the sides, but if it's simply vertical, I dunno what the point of it is when heat knuckle exists. Apologies for the classic "HI EVRYONE MY 1ST POST LEMME DERAIL DISCUSSION WITH TEXT WALL" post.
Jakestation Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 In casuals FAB did about 85% damage with this. CH 2HS 6HS gigantor bullet 6HS heat extend
Ronove Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 This is the fault of the developers, not the archtype. People design shitty, binary grapplers instead of ones that are more consistent and have more controlled defensive options. People hate grapplers because they remove a lot of options or win of RPS situations (which feels more like luck than skill). The more you minimize the impact of RPS and create less situations where a grappler can mash out of your blockstrings (which is why I think 720s are shitty design), the less frustrating grapplers are to play. Grapplers are still fundamentally the characters that take the most damage and win off reads (again, feels like winning through luck instead of skill), so they'll always be more frustrating than other archtypes, but there's ways to curtail this without subtracting from the grappler player's experience. Potemkin not having a 720 is one of the best parts of potemkin, they can afford to give him stuff that they can't give tager because tager can always win off two dicerolls which is terrible design. Even the threat of winning of diceroll feels AWFUL. I don't care if devs adhere to anti-frustration based design (which is very good for game health and long term competitive play). I just hate it when they don't do it right because they don't understand WHY things are frustrating. The nerfs are affecting the symptom, not the cause. Quality post right here.^ I fully agree with this. It reminds me of VF5's Wolf, which imho is another really good example of a well designed grappler (not to mention the system as well), where whoever has to face him has good options to shut down his offense, you "only" need to read one step ahead/better than him and minimize risky situations. It's also something that somehow applied to Pot in previous GG, he could capitalize on good reads and smart neutral but it wasn't about desperately turning it around or having the opponent play lame (like it happens in BB in a lot of matchups vs Tager) to avoid being randomed out by a 720.
STenSatsu Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 85% on who? Likely anyone. Health and guts values seem extremely homogenous among the cast. Pot can still do a ton of damage, but now everyone does the same damage so it means less.
Henaki Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Likely anyone. Health and guts values seem extremely homogenous among the cast. Pot can still do a ton of damage, but now everyone does the same damage so it means less. pot just does less damage off anything remotely consistent. most of the characters are doing similar damage to what they did before. pots damage got nerfed, unless some sort of 6k combo comes out that changes things.
Mumm-Ra Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 I ask again, 6k is the tackle, right? edit: holy fuck autocorrect raped my post.
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