[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[Henaki]

>Cannot YRC when opponent is in blockstun or hitstun

 

remove this shit and this game will be great

Okay normally i'm pretty against being a jerk these days but seriously

 

don't ever post.

[D.R.F.]

Okay normally i'm pretty against being a jerk these days but seriously

don't ever post.

One, wanted to apologize for posting so much today, I think I pissed someone off about it, and two yea, I just don't agree with that statement at all, pretty much is saying "give me easy mode FRCs"

[ElvenShadow]

Allowing YRCs to be done in blockstun or hitstun as they currently are essentially is just taking regular red RCs out of the game completely and making everything cost 25% (with the exception of PRCs).  As the current system stands, this wouldn’t go over well at all.  Combos in general do a lot of damage in this game.  Having to spend 50% meter in most of your combos (either for a super or a red RC) isn’t that bad.  Meter builds pretty quickly in this game.

 

Mario, yea Omaha crew was always solid.  Hope to see you guys all play seriously again when Xrd drops on console.

[Rhannmah]

Okay normally i'm pretty against being a jerk these days but seriously

 

don't ever post.

Damn, do I even have to explain why only being able to YRC at neutral is a horrible mechanic(compared to what FRC brings to the table)? Just, DAMN.

[youcanwonder]

Mario, yea Omaha crew was always solid. Hope to see you guys all play seriously again when Xrd drops on console.

[Rhannmah]

half of them don't even need to use a yrc or rc to get heavy damage combos

 

That's kind of part of the problem. The game needed to be readjusted completely so that characters could still do a decent amount of damage without having to wait for 50% tension. With FRC's out of the picture, the only way for that was to create tensionless damage routes. Now, this does take away some characters' uniqueness of doing great damage without tension, like Faust, evening the field a bit more. But now, if characters have good tensionless combo routes, with the way damage reduction works in GG, why even spend meter in combos anymore? But I still can't get over that they removed FRC functionality. It not only brought special ways to start and extend combos, but a whole level of pressure games and mindgames that are a hell of a lot harder to reproduce with the YRC system. Honestly, I feel that the game caught itself trying to be easier to play, but failing at keeping its complexity. Xrd looks like a really good game, but I really wish it was on par with its predecessor, which it seemingly isn't.

 

Like I said in a previous post, instead of removing the options that the FRC system brought, it would've been much better to accomodate other tension options to make them on par with FRC. The XX series did suffer from that problem too, FRC's and later Forcebreaks were simply superior to RC's and Overdrives, which clearly isn't a good situation, but how do you fix that? You make RC's and Overdrives more useful.

[Pichy]

>hurr durr blazbloo is the worst fighting game ever it suxxxxx XDDDD

 

Honestly, when's the last time you've seen someone use a super in a combo in Guilty Gear? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

I'll bite.

 

Ky: Landing a split ciel'd sacred edge in the corner hurts like hell and leads to VT loop.

May: OHK into Great Yamada Attack if they have a burst and are near death.

Chipp: When Samitto needs a knockdown so he reactivate Find Me, he ends with kunai super. Also tacking on damage when the guts is high with Fujiyama Geisha.

Pot: Counterhit 2H combos.

Slayer: I still see [c.S f.S]x3 into DOT. It's how you get a knockdown with good damage without mangling your tension pulse.

Milia: 6K into Emerald Rain is still very much a thing. Probably always will.

Zato: Hitconfirming into sword super during aerial exchanges gives him corner carry without spending Eddie gauge.

Faust: Sweep into 236236P for a laugh.

Ramlethal: Ending combos with meaty swords super.

 

Now, have you ever seen this fellow before?

 

This is Shinkuu Hadouken. Ryu can comb into it from air-to-air strong punch, then carry you to the corner with three more jump strongs and hit you with this super. This is not why this super is scary as hell. It is scary because this fellow has so much frame advantage on block that Ryu can hit towards fierce a couple of times then run a high/low/throw mixup on you.

 

Guilty Gear supers are often defined by uses besides supers. RCs serve the purpose of optimal combo fodder, so it makes sense to not just give everyone some sort of Kyokugenryu Ougi with a chunk of unscaled damage at the end. Hell, this is why it's RCs that maul your tension pulse instead of supers! Let's look at what supers I've seen used in Xrd for besides combos.

 

Sol: Tyrant rave for defense or unexpected frametraps (sup, Kabegiwa no DC). Dragon Install at weird angles in the air so one can safely divekick in then run some serious pressure when a turnaround in momentum is heavily needed, or to get a chip kill with DI Tyrant Rave.

Ky: RTL for a reversal that can't be low-profiled (very handy on Sol and Venom). Split ciel'd Sacred Edge for the aforementioned shinkuu hadouken.

May: Great Yamada Attack for whiff punishes or guaranteed damage after a blitz shield. Kyuukoku no Dadako is her only true reversal.

Axl: Okay, you got me. His supers are still pretty butt. We should delete this post and ban me.

Milia: Angel Winger's a true reversal. Also leads to full combo anywhere on the screen now. Rose Install forces the DP characters to respect her oki.

Zato: Dinner time's his only true reversal. Shark dives allow for even longer pressure.

Faust: Reversal super, "control even more space" super.

Chipp: Again, reversal super. Also ambiguous crossups depending on the opponent's position.

Potemkin: Reversal that's advantage on block and leads to a combo otherwise. Can use as a meaty to force respect on the opponent's wakeup.

Venom:Shinkuu Hadouken, but carries to the corner and cranks up the guard bar. Bishop Runout allows for more varied space control.

Slayer: DOT is pretty much Chun-li stored super. Also has a reversal super. (bring back glitched aerial counterhit air super damage please ;_

I-no: Air super is like +32 on block. Ground super's her only reversal.

Bedman: Reversal super, unblockable super (one day we'll find a setup).

Ramlethal: Reversal super, Dark Angel, Gamma Ray.

[Rhannmah]

stuff

 

I know and agree with most of this, but if YRC wasn't restricted like it is and RC was stronger, what would be bad about having to ponder your combo options as to whether you save tension to end your combo with an overdrive for a bit of guaranteed damage, or spend it on RC for different, high damage combo opportunities or on YRC combo and pressure? Right now, it's a non-option. It feels like the game is guiding you way too much in what you are "supposed" to do.

[Pichy]

Is the option of "do I RC or super for the best damage" an interesting option though? Both are "spend meter to improve the combo", so at midscreen you'll do the one that gets you corner carry and in the corner you'll do the one that does the most damage. Or you'll just not spend the meter if you want to maintain momentum, which is exactly what happens now.

 

Is Blazblue made deeper by unscaled super enders? I only see supers get tacked on if people already have someone cornered and have meter to burn, and even then in CP it's far more likely to see someone like Valk save that meter so he can do double j.C overhead unless he knows the super will kill.

 

EDIT: Do you really think that RC on hit isn't very strong? It's letting Sol do Bandit Bringer -> Fafnir off of a sweep. It's lettting Milia get air combos off of max range 5H. It's letting May double her damage output off of sweeps. It's letting Slayer combo into dusts, I-no do diveloops off of a chemical love and Zato create an endless series of unblockables in the corner. They did buff regular RC. The buffed it like crazy, and you still don't think it's useful? What exactly do you want given to it?

[greatfernman]

I know and agree with most of this, but if YRC wasn't restricted like it is and RC was stronger, what would be bad about having to ponder your combo options as to whether you save tension to end your combo with an overdrive for a bit of guaranteed damage, or spend it on RC for different, high damage combo opportunities or on YRC combo and pressure? Right now, it's a non-option. It feels like the game is guiding you way too much in what you are "supposed" to do.

so FRCs on only certain moves and only at certain times are more free and less guiding than being able to RC at any moment?

If you want to complain about the new RC system then complain about burst OSing or something, not that it lacks freedom.

[D.R.F.]

Is the option of "do I RC or super for the best damage" an interesting option though? Both are "spend meter to improve the combo", so at midscreen you'll do the one that gets you corner carry and in the corner you'll do the one that does the most damage. Or you'll just not spend the meter if you want to maintain momentum, which is exactly what happens now.

Is Blazblue made deeper by unscaled super enders? I only see supers get tacked on if people already have someone cornered and have meter to burn, and even then in CP it's far more likely to see someone like Valk save that meter so he can do double j.C overhead unless he knows the super will kill.

Well its not unscaling, its minimum scaling, so shit like in gg where at the end of the combo they do no damage doesnt happen. It doesnt break or revolutionize anything, but it makes unburstable kills more of a thing which is nice

[Rhannmah]

Is the option of "do I RC or super for the best damage" an interesting option though? Both are "spend meter to improve the combo", so at midscreen you'll do the one that gets you corner carry and in the corner you'll do the one that does the most damage. Or you'll just not spend the meter if you want to maintain momentum, which is exactly what happens now.

 

Is Blazblue made deeper by unscaled super enders? I only see supers get tacked on if people already have someone cornered and have meter to burn, and even then in CP it's far more likely to see someone like Valk save that meter so he can do double j.C overhead unless he knows the super will kill.

 

I think having the option available is better than not, even if the option isn't all that "interesting". Blazeblue is in a totally different paradigm where meter doesn't have the same significance as it does in Guilty. It's hard to compare the two.

 

 

so FRCs on only certain moves and only at certain times are more free and less guiding than being able to RC at any moment?

 

Wasn't talking about FRC's at all in what you quoted, but being able to whiff-cancel moves on specific windows with FRC's makes for a much more unrestrictive gameplay which you could never have with RC's alone. Speaking of which, one can wonder why RC's are even in +R at all. Can't remember the last time i've seen them used.

[Henaki]

Damn, do I even have to explain why only being able to YRC at neutral is a horrible mechanic(compared to what FRC brings to the table)? Just, DAMN.

You don't get how "not posting" works, you can try again though. I won't mind. 

 

You are a black hole of intelligence, because you only seem go grow more dense as this thread goes on.

[greatfernman]

Wasn't talking about FRC's at all in what you quoted, but being able to whiff-cancel moves on specific windows with FRC's makes for a much more unrestrictive gameplay which you could never have with RC's alone. Speaking of which, one can wonder why RC's are even in +R at all. Can't remember the last time i've seen them used.

RCs weren't used because FRCs were too strong. you can still whiff cancel moves in xrd, just without as limiting a window, that's what a YRC is.

I honestly have no idea what you mean by "being able to whiff-cancel moves on specific windows with FRCs makes for a much more unrestrictive gameplay".

Or do you mean cancel on block? cause that's what YRCs don't do as well as FRCs, though you can still YRC a blocked move if the YRC window extends past the opponent's blockstun (pretty sure i've seen chipp YRC alpha blade after the opponent blocked it)

[youcanwonder]

so FRCs on only certain moves and only at certain times are more free and less guiding than being able to RC at any moment?

If you want to complain about the new RC system then complain about burst OSing or something.

kinda yes. Y rc's can only be used at certain times where areas the frc game can be used anytime during combos and block strings.

As for frc's and supers....The xx series really didn't use a lot of supers do to frc's in the game being able to extend the combos..though some chars did use them more frequent then others...however still doesn't mean the yrc won't be as good as the frc. Well depending how it's used I guess..yrc I think can add a lot of mix up and mund games do to how they can be used in the game.

Frc's though combo extenders and great for mix ups...they will be missed lol. But it does appear you build tension faster in this game so just regular rc's you shuld still be able to do the same things. Including mix ups and extenders. I will admit alot of chars did use frc's way more in the xx series...but don't think the yrc and rc's will change the game that much...I don't really understand the use of the prc especially bc it just acts as a red rc..but that might just be me from what I've seen..granted you don't need to be in block stun to use..they shuld remove that lol...but still will add a little more depth to the game

[D.R.F.]

You don't get how "not posting" works, you can try again though. I won't mind.

Just let the topic die right here. To each his own

[Pichy]

.I don't really understand the use of the prc especially bc it just acts as a red rc..but that might just be me from what I've seen..granted you don't need to be in block stun to use..they shuld remove that lol...but still will add a little more depth to the game

 

PRC isn't really something you're aiming to use. It's so you don't get really dumb frame advantage by having the full time slow at the end of a move's recovery.

[D.R.F.]

kinda yes. Y rc's can only be used at certain times where areas the frc game can be used anytime during combos and block strings.

As for frc's and supers....The xx series really didn't use a lot of supers do to frc's in the game being able to extend the combos..though some chars did use them more frequent then others...however still doesn't mean the yrc won't be as good as the frc. Well depending how it's used I guess..yrc I think can add a lot of mix up and mund games do to how they can be used in the game.

Frc's though combo extenders and great for mix ups...they will be missed lol. But it does appear you build tension faster in this game so just regular rc's you shuld still be able to do the same things. Including mix ups and extenders. I will admit alot of chars did use frc's way more in the xx series...but don't think the yrc and rc's will change the game that much...I don't really understand the use of the prc especially bc it just acts as a red rc..but that might just be me from what I've seen..granted you don't need to be in block stun to use..they shuld remove that lol...but still will add a little more depth to the game

Prcs are there for when you want to cancel something long after the active frames pass and your move is in recovery. You use 50 tension (obviously) and get put in a bit of recovery because you cancelled the move in a situation where you should be punishable. Its a trade off but I like it, kinda encourages better play

[Rhannmah]

You don't get how "not posting" works, you can try again though. I won't mind. 

 

You are a black hole of intelligence, because you only seem go grow more dense as this thread goes on.

 

I don't know what makes you believe you're allowed to address people in this manner.

[Surf]

Wow. And I thought I said stupid shit sometimes. GGs Rhan

[BladeOfJustice7]

 Speaking of which, one can wonder why RC's are even in +R at all. Can't remember the last time i've seen them used.

RC's are there for when you botch up your FRC timing and you have 50% tension still and you get the cancel anyways but it's the wrong one lol. I've done that before more than once.

 

Just let the topic die right here. To each his own

I'm honestly impressed by how this thread has been going, besides Henaki being unnecessarily mean, it hasn't degenerated into someone being called "Poopy-Head".

 

I don't know what makes you believe you're allowed to address people in this manner.

I agree, Henaki if you're not going to say something constructive like you usually do, you don't need to reply to the discussion.

 

I somewhat agree with Rhannmah about the RC system, FRC's sort of have a universal 25% tension application in all scenarios, as opposed to YRC's which are a bit limited. But the Bullet Time attribute given to them has added a lot of layers to the game, as I remember when Ogawa started playing, and he was playing against Machabo. There was a point where Machabo jumped out of Ogawa's pressure and he did a neutral YRC and used the Bullet Time to air grab Machabo, which would've been much harder, if not impossible to do with the old RC system.

 

Certain setups like Fafni>YRC>WT or Zato's YRC application on Break the Law wasn't exactly possible in the old RC system, if not completely impossible. So it adds new layers while removing older ones, but it takes time to see that. I honestly commend Daisuke for how he's adjusted OD's in the game, they're for the most part made to be more useful and applicable as pointed out above.

 

With that said, be nice people. We finally can watch the game AND talk about it, don't give grandpa Circ a reason to close this thread.

[Rhannmah]

Sigh.

 

What I'm saying is that the FRC system was incredible and was a substantial part of what made the XX series so good. Why take that away? YRC is a poor replacement. FRC's are too good for how much they cost? Buff the other tension options to make them on par.

 

Keep in mind, this is just an opinion.

[D.R.F.]

Sigh.

What I'm saying is that the FRC system was incredible and was a substantial part of what made the XX series so good. Why take that away? YRC is a poor replacement. FRC's are too good for how much they cost? Buff the other tension options to make them on par.

Keep in mind, this is just an opinion.

How would you make ref. Rc better? Increase proration? Because I honestly do not see it. And supers are fine the way they are

[Casper]

Shit getting real in here

[excelence]

I agree, Henaki if you're not going to say something constructive like you usually do, you don't need to reply to the discussion.

 

Not trying to stand up for Henaki, but what crossed my mind with YRC in block stun is = easy unblockable bs that i don't want to deal with, i can stand with frc ub's because, there's specific setup for it, and not every moves have access to frc, but when you have access to yrc anytime with any moves,... nope not going to play this bs.