[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[Skyheartxia]

That's not what i meant!

oh my gosh im so sorry i feel silly now im tired D:

all i know is people don consider venom lightweight but like 85% of lightweight combos drop him

[Henaki]

 

Kedako posted wakeup times:

(on back/face down):

SO：53F/49F

KY：51F/49F

MA：53F/50F

MI：53F/51F

ZT：53F/50F

PO：52F/50F

CH：58F/52F

FA：53F/57F

AX：53F/49F

VE：49F/54F

SL：54F/48F

IN：52F/48F

BE：52F/58F

RA：53F/51F

 

thanks for the info, disappointed they made the wakeup times so variable and close together, probably one of the few really subtle things i really dislike about GG.

[king of heart]

thanks for the info, disappointed they made the wakeup times so variable and close together, probably one of the few really subtle things i really dislike about GG.

On the bright side, Zato's unblockables won't that easy to land on everyone.

[Henaki]

On the bright side, Zato's unblockables won't that easy to land on everyone.

i'd rather zato be able to do unblockables easier, have him nerfed slightly, and have more homogenized wakeup times than have 10 different wakeup timings.

[Skyheartxia]

i'd rather zato be able to do unblockables easier, have him nerfed slightly, and have more homogenized wakeup times than have 10 different wakeup timings.

yeah it'd be nice. guess they see it as a way to further cement the game as having matchup knowledge leading to greater reward?

ill just get used to it again slowly.

[BladeOfJustice7]

@henaki I personally never felt wake up speeds affected my wake up pressure game. Does not affect Ky very much, or am I just simply unaware of how much it affects me?

[Clousephinat]

Millia's Digitalis, CH jD, and her horizontal dust too techincally all push the opponent towards the corner, though not as much as Fafnir does.

 

Well yeah, but I was refering especially moves that pushes the opponent like Fafnir and Pile Bunker does, something which as everybody knows was for the first time present in AC like FB hair of Millia, sorry for not being more specific.

[Skyheartxia]

@henaki I personally never felt wake up speeds affected my wake up pressure game. Does not affect Ky very much, or am I just simply unaware of how much it affects me?

i have a little trouble meatying ABA. its really embarassing when i mess up and she gets out.

[Sytha]

@henaki I personally never felt wake up speeds affected my wake up pressure game. Does not affect Ky very much, or am I just simply unaware of how much it affects me?

 

 

You are unaware. 3H timings are important. You have to know the exact timing for Sol and Chipp at least. You have about a 2 frame window in order to be VV/Betablade safe oki. There is other stuff but yea it makes a small difference.

[Ronove]

@henaki I personally never felt wake up speeds affected my wake up pressure game. Does not affect Ky very much, or am I just simply unaware of how much it affects me?

 

It affects Millia's oki, specially off midscreen face-down knockdown and midscreen knockdown in general. It's not a dramatic issue but people need to be aware of this against certain characters.

[youcanwonder]

It's not like there is huge timing differences in the game. Chars have had different timings for sometime. So why the big deal now lol

[Skyheartxia]

It's not like there is huge timing differences in the game. Chars have had different timings for sometime. So why the big deal now lol

oh im sorry if i made it sound like a big deal at any time, just discussing the concept of it is all! i'll deal with it, just takes a lil while to get used to. :D

[SuperJ]

so apparently the meter loss from YRC is not instant. it doesn't seem to be consistent either; for gunflame YRC i saw the meter deplete on both frame 3 and frame 4.   (my sample size is very small atm, maybe there are cases where meter is depleted frame 1?)

 

point being

 

you can YRC just before getting hit and not only remove CH-state, which YRC startup doesn't have, you get to keep your meter. rofl (edit: proof, source (nico footage is 60fps))

 

might actually be practical against supers with predictable post-flash startup

[Skyheartxia]

so apparently the meter loss from YRC is not instant. it doesn't seem to be consistent either; for gunflame YRC i saw the meter deplete on both frame 3 and frame 4.   (my sample size is very small atm, maybe there are cases where meter is depleted frame 1?)

 

point being

 

you can YRC just before getting hit and not only remove CH-state, which YRC startup doesn't have, you get to keep your meter. rofl (edit: proof, source (nico footage is 60fps))

 

might actually be practical against supers with predictable post-flash startup

this is amazing, wow

[Teyah]

So if they didn't change hitstop, how did they change pacing? Just the acceleration nerf? For millia, you should be able to YRC early and get the jump K to hit at around the same frame as the haircar, which was the point of the original mixup. You just have to do it earlier.

When I talk about things like fafnir being safe, I'm speaking specifically from the mindset of #R, because that is 95% what this game is based on.

For pacing, character acceleration is nerfed heavily, maximum run speed is nerfed, air dash speed is nerfed and there is additional time before you can act (attack) out of airdashes by roughly a frame or two depending on character. Some backdashes are also slower too.

For Millia, here is what happens in GGXX:

- Combo is ended with j.H (j.2H in +R), she does 236H disc, then immediate 214P hair car

- She either FRCs the hair car on active frames 1~3 and performs an immediate j.K, or lets hair car hit low on active frames 4~6 and then FRCs

- The enemy has no cue to see which way to block, and if they DP, Millia will have recovered (due to FRC) and just blocks the DP and gets a max damage punish

Here is what happens in Xrd if you were to try this:

- Combo is ended with j.H, she does 236H disc, then immediate 214P hair car

- If Millia RCs at any point in hair car, the screen freezes and she does j.K. The enemy can react to the screen freeze and simply (instant) block high the j.K.

- If Millia RCs after the hair car hits low, there is no screen freeze until after it hits. Since there was no freeze, the enemy was still blocking low and blocked the hair car. Once they see the freeze they can block high since Millia is always in the air after hair car RC.

So basically there is no mixup, since the high option is preceded by a long screen freeze, turning it from a 4 frame high into like a 40 frame high. It also costs more meter to make hair car DP safe since it's now a RC and not a YRC/FRC.

[BladeOfJustice7]

You are unaware. 3H timings are important. You have to know the exact timing for Sol and Chipp at least. You have about a 2 frame window in order to be VV/Betablade safe oki. There is other stuff but yea it makes a small difference.

With Sol I actually know the timing, since I play against this character a lot, but I haven't really faced adequate Chipp players that often. So that's probably why I never felt the wake up speed differences.

 

EDIT:

BS is invincible to command throws??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gFGaY0ke1o#t=264

[Orrax]

I think Eddie did the throw while Sol was still in block stun (and I don't think you can BS until neutral).

[Delrian]

He spent the meter for BS though.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Probably just out of range? Damned Fang doesn't seem to have a lot of reach in this game.

[excelence]

@henaki I personally never felt wake up speeds affected my wake up pressure game. Does not affect Ky very much, or am I just simply unaware of how much it affects me?

 

That slight difference often throw my meaty into Otg poke when i fight against Chip & ABA... and i'd have to delay the timing a bit for few character in AC.

[Orrax]

He spent the meter for BS though.

Doesn't matter. What I'm saying happened was: air block string -> both players land, Sol is still in hit stun -> Eddie command grab goes active while Sol still has block stun throw invulnerability and whiffs -> Sol leaves block stun and immediately uses Blitz Shield.

 

It just happened so fast that it looked like Sol used BS and it beat the command grab. Another possibility is that, in older games, throw invulnerability lasted for 5 frames after hit stun ends (iirc), so, assuming Xrd works the same way, it might be possible for Sol to use BS right after leaving hit stun and the throw invulnerability might still be active.

 

Or what Titanium Beast said and he was just barely out of range.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Orrax

[oldkiller]

For pacing, character acceleration is nerfed heavily, maximum run speed is nerfed, air dash speed is nerfed and there is additional time before you can act (attack) out of airdashes by roughly a frame or two depending on character. Some backdashes are also slower too.

For Millia, here is what happens in GGXX:

- Combo is ended with j.H (j.2H in +R), she does 236H disc, then immediate 214P hair car

- She either FRCs the hair car on active frames 1~3 and performs an immediate j.K, or lets hair car hit low on active frames 4~6 and then FRCs

- The enemy has no cue to see which way to block, and if they DP, Millia will have recovered (due to FRC) and just blocks the DP and gets a max damage punish

Here is what happens in Xrd if you were to try this:

- Combo is ended with j.H, she does 236H disc, then immediate 214P hair car

- If Millia RCs at any point in hair car, the screen freezes and she does j.K. The enemy can react to the screen freeze and simply (instant) block high the j.K.

- If Millia RCs after the hair car hits low, there is no screen freeze until after it hits. Since there was no freeze, the enemy was still blocking low and blocked the hair car. Once they see the freeze they can block high since Millia is always in the air after hair car RC.

So basically there is no mixup, since the high option is preceded by a long screen freeze, turning it from a 4 frame high into like a 40 frame high. It also costs more meter to make hair car DP safe since it's now a RC and not a YRC/FRC.

 

This.

 

I want to talk about the bullet-time of the new RC system but I'm lacking example. Thanks for pointing this out.

What concerned me the most is that the bullet-time will effect throwing playstyle heavily.

 

These example might not pratical, but ...

 

Sol Riot stamp [FRC] into command throw

Sol bandit bringer [FRC] into command throw

Ky Stunt dipper [FRC] into throw

I-no Stroke the Big Tree [FRC] into throw

Potemkin 6HS [FRC] into command throw (this is prob the most impractical one)

Jam Senri Shinshou [FRC] into throw

Jam 2D [FRC] into throw

 

One other thing that with FRC, ppl only have to prepare for a certain situation of trickyness, which brings me to this example.

 

If you remember the Slash SBO semi-final where Domi(An) vs Tau(Ky). At the end of round 1, domi use 6HS against Tau. With the mindset of FRC, Tau thinks that he need to be prepare against the FRC at the end of Anji 6HS. But Domi was one step ahead and use RC to cancel the move early. Tau was caught off guard and got thrown by Anji

Now if that RC darken the screen and freeze time, I think Tau could totally react to that.

[youcanwonder]

Does anyone know if you are able to hit axls chain during his new stance? Or do you have to hit him psychically?

Skyheartxia lol...no apology needed i think i just read that wrong lol

[Kaizen]

You can Blitz Shield Axl's stance chains and he'll go into the recoil animation, as well as counter them with Axl's counters, meaning that they're not projectiles. I'm pretty sure I've seen them get hit, too. I imagine they have hurtboxes on them, because I doubt he'd be designed so stupidly: I have more faith in ArcSys Team Red than that.

 

What upsets me is that I still see multiple players getting wrecked by this move, specifically other Sol players for crying out loud. Fafnir didn't work the first time, so let's try it again, Roi? No VV? GG.

[Orrax]

Does anyone know if you are able to hit axls chain during his new stance? Or do you have to hit him psychically?

I'm pretty sure I've seen Ky use air Stun Edge where it hit the chains. I can't remember where I saw it, though.