[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[SuperJ]

YRC low/throw is likely much better suited for characters with command grabs because

 

1. mashing is a liability during time slow unless your mash is exceptionally fast. like <5f

2. time slow means your pre-jump lasts longer so it is easier to hit not-yet-airborne opponents with a low. particularly bad if your jump startup is >3f

3. your best mash (throw) is outranged by command grab

 

which means the opponent is more compelled to choose less safer options like DP or backdash. of course if you're aiming for YRC mixup you dictate the timing which is even worse for the opponent because the opponent doesn't necessarily know which of his inputs will be eaten by RC flash

 

tangentially, under the current frame data format, startup includes first active frame so a move with N startup actually has 2N-1 startup during time slow. just a thought

[Destin]

Ooph, 16f seems like a much better amount of time than 20f.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hair car FRC -> j.K / land 2K is not a mixup, because the high and low hit at different times - you just have to block high until the j.K window ends, then go back to blocking low. You never had the option of doing low -> low with old Hair car FRC because it was at a much later time (at least 10F later) than the low -> high, and there's no way to delay the low -> high to make it hit later (ie. at the same time as the low -> low) since you're too low to airdash after Hair car FRC.

And yeah the RC freeze + j.K startup is probably closer to 25-30F now that I look at it. Still very reactable due to the obvious cue of screen freeze + darkening.

 

Uh... if you wanted to do a late overhead out of haircar to match the low, you could TK badmoon or some shit.  If they're going out of their way to perfectly input the low > high > low switch on block, they're not going to be able to react to low > slight delay > high and block that accordingly.  It loses the ability to catch someone hitting a button, but it's still hard to block if they've committed to blocking.  It's not as strong as the usual Haircar > FRC > j.K for sure, I wont dispute that.  You're just doing a regular mixup out of the move, which in and of itself was a mixup (Haircar / TK Badmoon), instead of canceling the move/mixup into an immediate mixup, which had the added benefit of catching mash attempts and being much harder to block because of the dexterity requirement.

 

 

Also, you always had this option because the window would change based on if Haircar was blocked or not, due to hitpause.  Haircar is lvl 3, so I think that's 13f of hitpause.  If you FRC'd to make haircar whiff, the j.K would start around frame 20, but if you let haircar hit and then FRC'd, it'd start at 30+ (also varying depending on the frame you FRCd within the window).  That window covers the low startup window and makes it possible to mess up the block switch.  Granted this only exists because of Haircar FRC, which was the focus of the discussion in the first place.  In Xrd it'd be YRC/RC which skews the cost/reward ratios, and the screen freeze turns it into a regular mixup.

 

 

So.... yeah, some specific mixups are weakened by the way YRC works with the screen freeze.  That said, this seems to most weaken situations where you might successfully predict the opponents mixup and still not block correctly because you didn't input the block correctly.  I don't have a problem with that.  Mix people up rather than simply "doing mixups".

 

As for whiff move YRC throw shenannigans, it'll be awesome if/when RoboKy is added.  He had a standing low with 5K and no 6K, so he could do whatever attack (EX: invincible dash move thingie) YRC 6KH.  If they jumped they'll get tagged by the 5K since they wont be blocking low, and if they didn't jump they'll get thrown. 

[king of heart]

There is a Ram player that climbed up to the 3rd rank in the players guild under name "GG player" surpassing eki-chan, Dogura and Ogawa!
last time played at Mikado.

Edit: now he's in the 2nd place! "last played at Club Sega Akihabara."

[Skyheartxia]

There is a Ram player that climbed up to the 3rd rank in the players guild under name "GG player" surpassing eki-chan, Dogura and Ogawa!

last time played at Mikado.

Edit: now he's in the 2nd place! "last played at Club Sega Akihabara."

gotta hide your god tech so people cant find out who you are? play at Sega Akiba!!!

[DeathArcana]

There is a guild for GG players now?

[Skyheartxia]

There is a guild for GG players now?

yup;

http://ggxrd.com/pg/ranking_view.php?mode=exe&type=psr_rank&pref=&character=all&pref=0

[D.R.F.]

yup;

http://ggxrd.com/pg/ranking_view.php?mode=exe&type=psr_rank&pref=&character=all&pref=0

Since the game came out actually

[Teyah]

Uh... if you wanted to do a late overhead out of haircar to match the low, you could TK badmoon or some shit.

 

Hair car RC into TKBM / low, as a mixup?  Here are some reasons why this is a bad idea:

- You can't combo off the TKBM

- There's a huge gap in between the moves where they can mash or DP out

- It uses 50% meter

 

The only good thing about this is that it's DP safe low attack - but it certainly isn't a mixup or mixup starter.

 

 

If they're going out of their way to perfectly input the low > high > low switch on block, they're not going to be able to react to low > slight delay > high and block that accordingly.  It loses the ability to catch someone hitting a button, but it's still hard to block if they've committed to blocking.  

 

You don't need to "go out of your way" to block after a screen freeze, it should happen instinctively.  You just track where Millia is in relation to your character.  Is she in the air?  Block high.  Did she land?  Block low.  Has time passed since then?  Do something.

And the timing for these is set - there's no way to delay the landing after the screen freeze, so there isn't any way to fool them into blocking wrong during this sequence.  Also it's not a "slight delay", it's at the very least a 50F delay before any possible overhead after a Hair car RC (20F freeze + ~13-14 for Hair car recovery + ~16-17 for TKBM).  Which leaves them ample time to hit you or get out of the way, even with RC slowdown.  In the end, you're just paying 50% meter for a DP-safe low attack, which can be okay but is overall inferior to just doing Chroming Rose and trading with the DP anyway.

 

 

 

Also, you always had this option because the window would change based on if Haircar was blocked or not, due to hitpause.  Haircar is lvl 3, so I think that's 13f of hitpause.  If you FRC'd to make haircar whiff, the j.K would start around frame 20, but if you let haircar hit and then FRC'd, it'd start at 30+ (also varying depending on the frame you FRCd within the window).  That window covers the low startup window and makes it possible to mess up the block switch.

 

Decent players will just stand block on reaction to seeing a blocked Hair car, there is no reason not to since she can't go low afterwards.  It's the same situation as in Xrd, except in Xrd you're given close to 40F (13F hitstop, 20F screen freeze, 4F j.K) plus screen darkening to cue you in and tell you to start blocking high.  It wasn't hard to do before, now it will be just plain obvious. 

[Destin]

I highly doubt the screen freeze is a full 40f... but even at 20-25 its still enough to kill most mixups.

[Orrax]

20-25 or more will kill the type of mix up Teyah is talking about. But it's not going to kill a lot of low/throw stuff, like Hammerfall YRC. Some characters benefit from this more than others, and the others, like Millia, have kind of gotten the short end of the stick with the new system. I'm not really sure who else, though -- I main Sol, and it looks like he's got plenty of YRC shenanigans that look legit.

 

But it's hard to say any of this for sure when most of us haven't actually played the game. Everyone I've seen who has played the game doesn't seem to be complaining about this, so let's try not to get too worked up about it.

[Pichy]

Now that it's been established that yes, the haircar FRC mixup is gone we can ask other questions about Milia. Questions like "does it matter in a game where the 2K/TK Badmoon mixup launches when a disc is out?"

[Destin]

No, I certainly think millia has enough mixups that she doesn't have much to worry about. We were just getting all theoretical up in this bitch.

[qwerty]

I can only sit here and dream of Johnny with YRC. Upcoin YRC -> air throw? My body is ready.

[SoWL]

Johnny didn't have the upcoin in #R, though.

[Jakestation]

http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan MIkado tournament started minute ago.

[king of heart]

Coin YRC would be crazy

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[youcanwonder]

Baiken....yrcing.....umm...her upper lol

[SolxBaiken]

Baiken could benefit from YRC on Tatami, Kabari, and Suzuran.

 

Also, when Baiken GCs [before hit obviously] no one is in hit/guard stun so could she theoretically YRC her Guard Cancel moves [would that limitation even apply to your own hit/guard stun?]? If they let her keep Ouren then that would be another beneficial YRC, otherwise [depending on how it would work] GC+K might be the only one getting the most benefit from YRC.

[mynus]

Johnny didn't have the upcoin in #R, though.

Not every character in Xrd is based off of #Reload. Like I-no for instance is closest to her Slash iteration.

[Teyah]

Now that it's been established that yes, the haircar FRC mixup is gone we can ask other questions about Milia. Questions like "does it matter in a game where the 2K/TK Badmoon mixup launches when a disc is out?"

Yes it matters because the Hair car mixup was DP safe (the one you listed isn't) in addition to being unreactable and launching when a disc was out. I'll move on anyway...

(Disc) YRC 2K/6K should also be DP safe against DPs slower than 5F, so if you want 25% DP safe mixup there are still options out there I suppose. But it won't work against Sol or Chipp which are two of her harder matchups in Xrd.

[youcanwonder]

Baiken could benefit from YRC on Tatami, Kabari, and Suzuran.

Also, when Baiken GCs [before hit obviously] no one is in hit/guard stun so could she theoretically YRC her Guard Cancel moves [would that limitation even apply to your own hit/guard stun?]? If they let her keep Ouren then that would be another beneficial YRC, otherwise [depending on how it would work] GC+K might be the only one getting the most benefit from YRC.

Her run I can see beneficial. ..just bc you could cut it off...and her flip counter bc it doesn't really hit right away..tatami...I would call maybe on that..bc if they are in block stun it bc a rc air tatami could yrc could be interesting. Far as the rest of her counters though...I don't see them being beneficial only bc if you are using them your expecting them to hit..so you wuld prolly end up losing damage if you yrcd. ..that is just might thought tho...of course unless people are trying to bait the counter..them yea that would open up so opportunities

[BladeOfJustice7]

Not every character in Xrd is based off of #Reload. Like I-no for instance is closest to her Slash iteration.

Chipp looks more like his ACR version in my opinion.

[Casper]

It's kinda hard for me to imagine what baiken will be like in xrd from a combo perspective without j.d or tatami frc.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hey, firefox has crashed on me and eaten my response about 3 times, so I'll give you the super short version.  You missed the point of my post.  I was disputing your statement that, "You never had the option of doing low -> low with old Hair car FRC because it was at a much later time (at least 10F later) than the low -> high, and there's no way to delay the low -> high to make it hit later (ie. at the same time as the low -> low) since you're too low to airdash after Hair car FRC.".

 

 

You then responded like I was talking about Xrd Millia, which I wasn't.  I even said, "That window covers the low startup window and makes it possible to mess up the block switch.  Granted this only exists because of Haircar FRC, which was the focus of the discussion in the first place.  In Xrd it'd be YRC/RC which skews the cost/reward ratios, and the screen freeze turns it into a regular mixup," to make sure we were on the same page.

 

 

I'm not suggesting that you use Haircar RC in Xrd because it's not as good.  I also don't have a problem with that because, in my mind, most of the difficulty in dealing with haircar FRC j.K was timing your block right.  You could predict it and still get it wrong because of the difference in timing between Haircar whiff FRC and Haircar FRC, or even if you successfully predicted which version was used because of a lack of dexterity, since you'd have to switch blocking in 4 frames.

 

 

 

So anyway, there's the clarification for what I was talking about.  There are some other things I would dispute or elaborate on, but I don't want to have my post eaten again.  I can come back to this when I know firefox will stop messing up.