[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[D.R.F.]

You can Blitz Shield Axl's stance chains and he'll go into the recoil animation, as well as counter them with Axl's counters, meaning that they're not projectiles. I'm pretty sure I've seen them get hit, too. I imagine they have hurtboxes on them, because I doubt he'd be designed so stupidly: I have more faith in ArcSys Team Red than that.

What upsets me is that I still see multiple players getting wrecked by this move, specifically other Sol players for crying out loud. Fafnir didn't work the first time, so let's try it again, Roi? No VV? GG.

Yea, i think I remember some "to be" axl players complaining how there were hitboxes on the chains, and watching what are supposed to be "good" players getting bodied by it is embarrassing, especially when they are getting comboed for 25%+ of their live fullscreen

[Orrax]

This.

 

I want to talk about the bullet-time of the new RC system but I'm lacking example. Thanks for pointing this out.

What concerned me the most is that the bullet-time will effect throwing playstyle heavily.

 

These example might not pratical, but ...

 

Sol Riot stamp [FRC] into command throw

Sol bandit bringer [FRC] into command throw

Ky Stunt dipper [FRC] into throw

I-no Stroke the Big Tree [FRC] into throw

Potemkin 6HS [FRC] into command throw (this is prob the most impractical one)

Jam Senri Shinshou [FRC] into throw

Jam 2D [FRC] into throw

 

One other thing that with FRC, ppl only have to prepare for a certain situation of trickyness, which brings me to this example.

 

If you remember the Slash SBO semi-final where Domi(An) vs Tau(Ky). At the end of round 1, domi use 6HS against Tau. With the mindset of FRC, Tau thinks that he need to be prepare against the FRC at the end of Anji 6HS. But Domi was one step ahead and use RC to cancel the move early. Tau was caught off guard and got thrown by Anji

Now if that RC darken the screen and freeze time, I think Tau could totally react to that.

The new RC system does change things, but not necessarily for the worse. I think you're worried about it taking away options, but it creates a different set of options. Rather than just one strong option (FRC throw), it creates a mix up with low-throw (usually). Potemkin 6H FRC is a good example -- it still works to do 6H YRC Pot Buster, but the Pot player needs to mix it up with Heat Knuckle or a low. It still creates an unreactable situation (at least in those that you listed), but in a different way than before because the defending player has a chance to do something. Does that mean it's weaker? Well, perhaps. But it's still strong. Just look at all the mileage FAB gets out of Potemkin's Hammerfall YRC stuff. I've also been seeing Sol players using Fafnir YRC similarly. Plus you can also sometimes catch someone in the middle of something, and respond accordingly. It still seems useful from what I can tell, but the situation it creates is different.

 

The situation Teyah listed is a bit of an exception, because the mix up can be mostly dealt with by just having decent blocking timing. Millia might still be able to air dash after it (not 100% sure on this), so maybe there can still be mix up potential off of it, but, even so, I'm not sure if it's worth it given Millia's other mix up options that don't involve burning tension.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Orrax

[oldkiller]

It is true that beside the stunt dipper, all the tricks can be used in Xrd.

 

What I'm trying to say here is, when using these trick, the slow+dark screen might be a give away to your opponent. The sudden change of pace can raise the awareness of the defender whereas with FRC it comes quick and leaves little time to react.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

I don't understand why keeping on the discussion when no one has actually played the game, and the one that DID it told you may times not to worry :V

[youcanwonder]

It keeps the conversation alive fenrir.....ALIVE lol.

thanks for the info guys. Maybe badguy should throw gunflame out there when the stance ends and then run in behind it...just a thought

[Destin]

@teyah isn't yrc a 6 framer? That plus Millais jump k (4f? 3f?) should still be a 9-10 frame mixup. Which would be unseeable.

Same with most of the situations listed. Adding 6f isn't a deal breaker for throw mixups. Unless Yrc's are not 6f? Aren't rc's only 1f? Is there some hidden thing I'm not getting here? I guess on hit it takes 50% instead of 25%.

[Henaki]

I don't understand why keeping on the discussion when no one has actually played the game, and the one that DID it told you may times not to worry :V

because otherwise what else would we talk about?

 

nothing?

 

pft.

[Appledash-]

Obviously, if throwing out Fafnir from full screen didn't work the first time then you didn't put enough FAFNIIRR into it.

But really they had a lot more success trying to jump over the chains and kudakero in.

Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

[BladeOfJustice7]

Ky seems to have effective tools of dealing with Axl's stance, Venom might also be able to deal it by using a ball set YRC, maybe.

[Casper]

Yeah I'm not sure how venom ought to deal with the chains... Not saying it's a problem I just don't know. Maybe h carcass raid yrc and use coverage to get balls moving or raw dark angel or something? I know qv absorbs projectiles but as already stated I think the chains function as limbs. Any thoughts?

[DaiAndOh]

Venom can wait for an opportunity, then stinger, which I believe hits the chains no matter which was used. Stinger YRC should do it anyway, and if he has a ball next to him, it's free.

[Teyah]

@teyah isn't yrc a 6 framer? That plus Millais jump k (4f? 3f?) should still be a 9-10 frame mixup. Which would be unseeable.

Same with most of the situations listed. Adding 6f isn't a deal breaker for throw mixups. Unless Yrc's are not 6f? Aren't rc's only 1f? Is there some hidden thing I'm not getting here? I guess on hit it takes 50% instead of 25%.

YRC/RC screen freeze is much more than 6F, you're probably thinking about startup which is something like 4F. The screen freeze happens after that and lasts something like 40F. And you can't do anything until after the freeze ends, which is what kills this high/low mixup, as well as other 'surprise' type mixups like FRC into immediate throw and even DP RC low/throw to some extent.

[SuperJ]

YRC screen freeze has 6f startup. post-flash is a bitch to measure; my best guess atm: 16f of actual screen freeze and 3f where you are recovering and the opponent moves at half speed. so YRC is effectively 6+1. i can't guarantee the accuracy of this. also i haven't checked how much extra slow you get once you're able to move. ~10f?

 

of course you should still easily react to a 25+4f overhead

 

what i'm really trying to say is when's the mook

[Skyheartxia]

 

source (nico footage is 60fps

lmao Nanore's confusion when that doesnt CH is great

[Henaki]

question: in axls stance, can he do the same thing twice in a row, is there a max he can do? i've never really paid attentino to it other than "this looks annoying but full screen combos are cool"

[SuperJ]

lmao Nanore's confusion when that doesnt CH is great

 

i would have 6H'd and whiffed lol. great reactions on his part

 

you can do a max of 6 stance chains. i haven't seen (i.e. don't think?) axl can gatling into the same chain but otherwise there's no limit.

 

re: the earlier convo, i don't think BS'ing axl chains to maybe get in is worth 25% versus this. stance spam eventually causes negative penalty eventually fwiw

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

If you have meter, you could probably do jump+FD and if you happen to clear a chain, use YRC to slow down Axl's recovery so you can airdash in and/or punish. Probably a better use of the meter than BS.

[Destin]

YRC/RC screen freeze is much more than 6F, you're probably thinking about startup which is something like 4F. The screen freeze happens after that and lasts something like 40F. And you can't do anything until after the freeze ends, which is what kills this high/low mixup, as well as other 'surprise' type mixups like FRC into immediate throw and even DP RC low/throw to some extent.

That's disappointing news.

[OneSanitarium]

 

i would have 6H'd and whiffed lol. great reactions on his part

 

you can do a max of 6 stance chains. i haven't seen (i.e. don't think?) axl can gatling into the same chain but otherwise there's no limit.

 

re: the earlier convo, i don't think BS'ing axl chains to maybe get in is worth 25% versus this. stance spam eventually causes negative penalty eventually fwiw

 

 

Just a few seconds after where you linked, the 4th and 5th hit of the combo from the stance where the same one. Dunno if it's a actual chain or if the recovery after one before going to neutral is just really short and he just delayed it well. Seems like a chain to me though.

[ElvenShadow]

Don't worry, mixups still work.  The new system brings a lot of new mixup options with it as well.   For example, I am able to do pogo - YRC right before it hits - command throw, and it works pretty well.  Also, I can do 6HS - YRC right before it hits - whateverthefuckIwant

 

Also for Axl chain stance, it is annoying but not that bad once you find a way to deal with it.  For Faust, you can just super jump when you see him go into the stance if you are in neutural and then just air dash and throw a bomb bag.  The chains can't reach you if you are at max jump height when you dash.  Sometimes Axl can get out of the stance before the bag hits him but at least you aren't stuck being pinned by chains in the corner.

[TheRealBobMan]

YRC/RC screen freeze is much more than 6F, you're probably thinking about startup which is something like 4F. The screen freeze happens after that and lasts something like 40F. And you can't do anything until after the freeze ends, which is what kills this high/low mixup, as well as other 'surprise' type mixups like FRC into immediate throw and even DP RC low/throw to some extent.

 

This mixup is definitely weaker, but couldn't you still... you know...  delay about 4 frames until you hit the ground and use 2K?  With old Haircar FRC, you were doing a low into an immediate high, or feinting the low into a high, but you always had the option of doing low > low.  That option is still there, even if it's not as strong as what she had before.

 

 

Hm... maybe for a sequel they'll have Green RC or some crap where you input 3 specific buttons to get an old RC without the time slow effect for stronger mixup.  That would introduce input-based problems (want to FRC with say PSH and piano K, but you can't do it that way because you wanted the Green RC that uses PKS, so you still have the double-tap K problem).

 

 

Anyway, you still wont be able to react to certain things... you just have more time to realize a mixup is happening in a specific place.  Kind of sucks since you wont really be able to use the Psychological Refractory Period to your advantage, and this weakens surprise cancel > throw mixups a little bit, but it's probably not all that bad.  Remember that what beats throw might lose to your overhead/low.

 

 

 

*Edit*  An example of STBT > YRC > 2K working.

[Horokei]

YRC/RC screen freeze is much more than 6F, you're probably thinking about startup which is something like 4F. The screen freeze happens after that and lasts something like 40F. And you can't do anything until after the freeze ends, which is what kills this high/low mixup, as well as other 'surprise' type mixups like FRC into immediate throw and even DP RC low/throw to some extent.

I've counted 5f of startup + 19f of freeze on YRC. Slowdown duration is ~20f

[Teyah]

This mixup is definitely weaker, but couldn't you still... you know... delay about 4 frames until you hit the ground and use 2K? With old Haircar FRC, you were doing a low into an immediate high, or feinting the low into a high, but you always had the option of doing low > low. That option is still there, even if it's not as strong as what she had before.

Hair car FRC -> j.K / land 2K is not a mixup, because the high and low hit at different times - you just have to block high until the j.K window ends, then go back to blocking low. You never had the option of doing low -> low with old Hair car FRC because it was at a much later time (at least 10F later) than the low -> high, and there's no way to delay the low -> high to make it hit later (ie. at the same time as the low -> low) since you're too low to airdash after Hair car FRC.

And yeah the RC freeze + j.K startup is probably closer to 25-30F now that I look at it. Still very reactable due to the obvious cue of screen freeze + darkening.

[4r5]

Just stick a throw in there and you have a decent mixup again. Or save meter for roses.

[Teyah]

Just stick a throw in there and you have a decent mixup again. Or save meter for roses.

That's not a good idea since Hair car leaves you airborne with ~13F recovery (5 air + 8 grounded) until you land and can even begin to move on the ground. So a throw/low mixup would be pointless from hair car, not to mention that Millia's throw doesn't give much of a reward in Xrd.

Agree with the roses, that or 6K xx Emerald Rain is what most people do now since Hair car RC seems mostly useless and disc YRC is not that useful in the corner.