[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[FinalDoomGuy]

Remember kids, when someone has a different opinion than you, just ignore it. How dare someone not like the same things you like.

*When someone won't shut the fuck up about his opinion

In any case, I'm looking forward to Sin, because I do like myself some Order Sol, and Sin looks like the closest thing to him.

Has there been any release dates announced (Last I checked it was the end of 2014)?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Remember kids, if you have an opinion that is uninformed and you share it in a public space, you are inviting people to criticize said opinion. A right to an opinion does not equate to a right to immunity from critique.

[D.R.F.]

What blazblue input? Seriously? Ehh its better than something like sf4

[Wild Pegasus]

Hey guys.

 

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster on Dustloop and I'm excited for Xrd. I was wondering with the different button layouts given in the character select screen on the arcades, will Xrd have a button configuration option in the character select screen on consoles?

[4r5]

they'll prob swap out the layout select for a button config. That's how BB was

[SuperJ]

i remember reading some ishiwatari/pachi snippet way back when in this thread that mentioned relaxed execution requirements in xrd? to paraphrase, it involved 'the old ways vs. the new ways.' or something to that effect.

 

is this a thing (is the source available)? stuff gets lost real fuckin fast in this thread so i might not be remembering correctly. they weren't very specific so i interpreted said statement as 'BB-style input buffer.' can anyone who's actually played xrd confirm/deny?

 

found it. did this get glossed over last time? :|

[iBeK3n]

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Thank you so much, boss. I thought I'd never hear the end of it.

Learning every day!

 

As for the person who said Sin would be more like Hakumen than Tsubaki, I think you've misunderstood what we meant, as it was more about the meter system and how specials cancel into each other. I personally HOPE & wish he'll be somewhat like Order Sol but I highly doubt it. I'll stick to AC+R until Order Sol comes out, I think. 

[D.R.F.]

Thank you so much, boss. I thought I'd never hear the end of it.

Learning every day!

As for the person who said Sin would be more like Hakumen than Tsubaki, I think you've misunderstood what we meant, as it was more about the meter system and how specials cancel into each other. I personally HOPE & wish he'll be somewhat like Order Sol but I highly doubt it. I'll stick to AC+R until Order Sol comes out, I think.

You might be playing +R for a while then, unless HOS is special dlc not related to the story

[ElvenShadow]

Regarding inputs, all I know is that I play (execution wise) just as I always have and I don't get unintended inputs and it feels fine.

Also in one of the new screens against Ram, Sin looks like he has a sliding move, possibly similar to Ky's though it also could be a normal. I think Sin looks like a fun character with good tools based on what has been shown so far.

[AllyOfJustice]

Remember kids, if you have an opinion that is uninformed and you share it in a public space, you are inviting people to criticize said opinion. A right to an opinion does not equate to a right to immunity from critique.

 

 

Which part was uninformed?

[Wild Pegasus]

Comparing iterations of a game to actual sequels was one, especially since most 2d fighters that have done a complete sequel have less characters in their first iteration than the previous games that was on their final iteration. 

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Already been down this road, I explained to you that your intense negativity made no sense, given that you haven't even played the game yet and the VAST majority of people who actually have played it are possessed of views that oppose yours.

 

And before you recycle your pathetic two "facts", let me address them:

 

1. The game only having 15 characters is really, well and truly, completely irrelevant to how good the game is. More characters does not always equate to a deeper, more fulfilling game. As long as the existent cast provides a variety of interesting and viable styles of play, the actual number of characters means jack.

 

2. As I mentioned to you before, just because Ishiwatari claims the game has been deliberately simplified does not mean that the game is less deep, or "dumbed down", as you keep saying. Actual depth of a game is displayed after long periods of play by skillful players, and is rarely set in stone right at release. Melee is a good example of this. Additionally, as I said above, aside from ONE PERSON (Mike Z), everyone who has actually played the game has said that it's still quite deep and fun.

 

The fact that you hold a different opinion is not what makes people call you a troll. It is your stubborn hard headedness in INSISTING that the game is horrible before you even get to play it, in spite of everyone who has played it telling you otherwise.

 

In short, your opinion is dumb, and people are tired of you repeatedly sharing it, without demonstrating any lick of common sense. Your "right" to your opinion doesn't make your opinion any less stupid.

[D.R.F.]

Already been down this road, I explained to you that your intense negativity made no sense, given that you haven't even played the game yet and the VAST majority of people who actually have played it are possessed of views that oppose yours.

And before you recycle your pathetic two "facts", let me address them:

1. The game only having 15 characters is really, well and truly, completely irrelevant to how good the game is. More characters does not always equate to a deeper, more fulfilling game. As long as the existent cast provides a variety of interesting and viable styles of play, the actual number of characters means jack.

2. As I mentioned to you before, just because Ishiwatari claims the game has been deliberately simplified does not mean that the game is less deep, or "dumbed down", as you keep saying. Actual depth of a game is displayed after long periods of play by skillful players, and is rarely set in stone right at release. Melee is a good example of this. Additionally, as I said above, aside from ONE PERSON (Mike Z), everyone who has actually played the game has said that it's still quite deep and fun.

The fact that you hold a different opinion is not what makes people call you a troll. It is your stubborn hard headedness in INSISTING that the game is horrible before you even get to play it, in spite of everyone who has played it telling you otherwise.

In short, your opinion is dumb, and people are tired of you repeatedly sharing it, without demonstrating any lick of common sense. Your "right" to your opinion doesn't make your opinion any less stupid.

America

[Blade]

Speaking of "pre-set button layouts" why do most GG macros only use P+K+S for Roman Cancels?

 

What if I want K+S+H or P+K+H or something?

[balofo]

When should we expect to see Sin in action? TGS?

[AllyOfJustice]

1. The game only having 15 characters is really, well and truly, completely irrelevant to how good the game is. More characters does not always equate to a deeper, more fulfilling game. As long as the existent cast provides a variety of interesting and viable styles of play, the actual number of characters means jack.

 

Well, I actually disagree with this. In the year 2014 it's fair to expect a good roster right? specially from an established series with many memorable characters.I mean, Xrd is the comeback game, I still stand by my statement that Guilty Gear deserves better. I guess having more characters is just my thing, it's stupid for me to be disappointed about the roster going from 25 to 15.

 

2. As I mentioned to you before, just because Ishiwatari claims the game has been deliberately simplified does not mean that the game is less deep, or "dumbed down", as you keep saying. Actual depth of a game is displayed after long periods of play by skillful players, and is rarely set in stone right at release. Melee is a good example of this. Additionally, as I said above, aside from ONE PERSON (Mike Z), everyone who has actually played the game has said that it's still quite deep and fun.

 

 

Right.

 

 

The fact that you hold a different opinion is not what makes people call you a troll. It is your stubborn hard headedness in INSISTING that the game is horrible before you even get to play it, in spite of everyone who has played it telling you otherwise.

 

 

When did I call the game horrible? Show me where I called it horrible. I think Xrd itself could be good, I just don't agree with reducing the cast drastically, slowing down gameplay, all that shit. Also, some aspects are horrible compared to other Arcsys games.

 

In short, your opinion is dumb, and people are tired of you repeatedly sharing it, without demonstrating any lick of common sense. Your "right" to your opinion doesn't make your opinion any less stupid.

 

That's not a nice thing to say.

[greatfernman]

I guess having more characters is just my thing, it's stupid for me to be disappointed about the roster going from 25 to 15.

It's not "going from 25 to 15", it's going from 0 to 15.

You're making way too big a deal of this either way.

[AllyOfJustice]

I actually stopped making a big deal about it. It's just that people keep bringing the shit up again. Everytime I try to go on topic someone quotes me and I have to respond.

 

It's like yare yare daze, nee-san.

[TeeJay]

People are catching up to old posts....

 

 

 

Speaking of "pre-set button layouts" why do most GG macros only use P+K+S for Roman Cancels?

 

What if I want K+S+H or P+K+H or something?

 

I may be mistaken, but doesn't guilty gear use any 3 button combination that isn't Dust or am I nuts? Is this changed for Xrd? I used to change my 3 button input for A.B.A. and Robo Ky FRCs to not be whatever button I was using for the previous input. Oh, you mean Macros...... That makes sense. That's an interesting question. Does it affect inputs with macros?

Edited July 10, 2014 by TeeJay

[XXXDC]

 Does it affect inputs with macros?

In my experience, it does.

The most notorious example would be Johnny's Killer joker (421S) FRC. If you try to use the RC macro then Johnny will always perform the follow up move instead of the FRC.

[Pichy]

It does. You can't for example do 22P FRC with Justice using that macro button, as you're already holding down the P. P+K+S was just the easiest input to give for the Roman Cancel macro without making it some mystical additional input that might allow for janky detection. It also doesn't affect much else because there's only two other characters with negative edging as a serious part of their gameplan and Dizzy's lightning spear doesn't have an FRC.

 

I use K+S+H when inputting RCs most of the time myself. Just plain easy to hit the top three buttons on the stick.

 

DaiAndOh: About four pages back you asked about Axl normals. What they did was:

 - All ground-to-ground chain normals (2P, 3P, 2H) are one-hit like the pre-AC days

 - Anti-air and air-to-air chain normals (5P, 2S and so on) are two-hit AC hit properties.

 

I thought this was a really smart way of doing things. Rather than giving him that relentless pressure on every single normal, he uses the ground normals to push the opponent away. Once they've been disincentivised from approaching on the ground, they take to the air where he gets to really wreck them with the easy AC confirms. Or he can just push them away and do Red Chain silliness. Helps to encourage him as a "make them jump, then make them wish they'd never tried moving at all" character, as opposed to Faust's "poke them in the air  a bit to make them sit on the ground and get mauled by his mixup game".

 

Axl and Faust are always tricky to design in ways that make them unique to each other, since at their core they're both Dhalsims. In general it just winds up that Axl is a poking Dhalsim while Faust is an SF2 Dhalsim.

 

While we're on Faust, there was some talk about character strengths historically. The most consistent characters are definitely Slayer, Faust and Jam. All of them have always been super solid, with very little to fundamentally change what makes them so great.

Slayer: Big damage, terrifying normals, excellent whiff punish potential.

Faust: Footsie king, effective mixups, some of the best mobility in the game.

Jam: Enormous damage, parry, really dumb moves that lead to the enormous damage, excellent frametraps

 

Eddie's a bit inconsistent, though he's certainly been crazy in more games than he's not.

X: A monster, just not very good at 6H FD cancel glitch, which is what the game turned into.

XX: Sdrill FRC

#R: Buzzsaw guard bar

Slash: No more guard bar cranking, so no more damage.

AC: Most braindead unblockables ever

AC+R: Crazy, but in ways that take serious effort and reward positioning yourself well.

Xrd: Somewhere between Slash and #R, but with that stupid restand mechanic leading to a loop that has no business existing.

 

What's worth noting is that throughout Guilty Gear's life at SBO, every team in a grand final had a Faust, Slayer or Jam in it every single year. Often times two Fausts. They're consistently strong, and reward the basics of 2D fighting games well so it's the consistent players that win with them no matter what stage the game's life is at.

 

 

I'll grumble about the Xrd Slayer changelog some other time. I'd long held that the only way Slayer would move below A tier would be if his basic concept of "amazing normals, high damage and great whiff punish potential" got messed with, and they did exactly that in Xrd. Bring back 2H, please.

[TeeJay]

Wow, that's a solid nugget of info. I have been informed. 

[Destin]

Don't forget jam used to be able to FDC her burst if she parried.  That was like 30f of invul, where should could do ANYTHING.  And it didn't cost the burst iirc.  This is why I think she was better in XX than we gave her credit for.

 

I almost think faust is closer to ST vega than sim.  He has great pokes without terribly high recovery, and a solid rushdown.  I wouldn't say his mixup game is realllly crazy, it's pretty middle of the road in GG.  But those BUTTONS.  Every button is the right solution for all the problems. 

 

And slayer also had you know, invul on every move and jump.  That is nothing to scoff at, and (outside of the double hit air super) is single handedly why I feared him in #R.  What did he lose in Xrd?  I highly doubt he is low tier, mid tier I guess?

[Pichy]

The 1.02 tier list Arcadia listed in that big "here's the tiers for all the active games" list had him in C with Venom and Bedman. Their list from the end of last month had him up in low A/high B.

 

Damage in general is a lot more normalised in Xrd, which hurts the "big damage". He lost a lot of his AC mixups (crossup pilebunker, fake 5D, fake mappas), and doesn't have #R's damage. He lost any sort of damaging combos off of Bite without meter (which in turn makes it less appealing than the faster normal throw in a game with no throwtech since he gets more damage off that). Most importantly though, his normals are smaller and the hurtboxes are larger. You can't swat people away with things like 2S, and can't just 6P people in footsies for free. On top of that, 2H's hitbox is tiny now. Like, barely hits past his feet. That move forced people to respect him so hard, and now it's gone. In turn, that means the 5H 2H gatling is weaker, as max range 5H no longer can make the 2H connect.

 

He's certainly no Potemkin as far as nerfs go, but he isn't as Slayer-ish as he should be.

 

Also my favourite Jam parry nonsense was how before Slash you could just mash 46 over and over in blockstun and get parries whenever so long as they didn't go low. Have to return the stick to neutral before inputting the parry now for a reason.

[Jocelot]

His DoT also isn't fullscreen anymore. I dunno how much it hurts (especially considering some of his other stuff).