DaiAndOh Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Ogawa made a tier list and is posting reasoning in other tweets. Note that I don't know Japanese but can make out the tier list via google translate:https://twitter.com/ogawaeddie S: Millia, Zato, Faust, Ramlethal A: I-No, Sol=Ky, Chipp=Venom B: Everyone else So let's try this again. Discussing this tier list, or any other tier list is cool. Discussing whether tier lists in general are useful or not or flaming others is not.
Celerity Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Isn't the PS4's controller's d-pad the exact same as every other PS console? If it is, it should be just fine. No, it's actually better. The D-Pad is very precise compared to DS2/DS3, especially the diagonals. Personally, I can't use it because the weird shape hurts my hands, but it is very good if you can get past that.
the_d3v Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Well, that sucks for you and all those other people, because I can guarantee you that the Hori Commander controller is way better than any normal PS pad and if you had the choice you should be picking the HC#P pad. This is based off my own personal Commander 3 Pro (that I used a lot before finally switching to fightstick), but the design looks identical to the 4 Pro, which I assume is only different in that it also works for PS4. The FC Pro is fine until the mechanism that controls the angle of the D-Pad breaks and ruins it. The non-Pro version is so much more sturdier, sadly, they don't make those anymore.
HeWhoRocksAlot Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Ogawa made a tier list and is posting reasoning in other tweets. Note that I don't know Japanese but can make out the tier list via google translate:https://twitter.com/ogawaeddie S: Millia, Zato, Faust, Ramlethal A: I-No, Sol=Ky, Chipp=Venom B: Everyone else So let's try this again. Discussing this tier list, or any other tier list is cool. Discussing whether tier lists in general are useful or not or flaming others is not. Let's Go! If you want to compare some of the past notable tier list from this year: -Ver. 1.01- Arcadia's GGXrd tier list S Zato-1, Faust A Ky, Sol, Chipp, Millia, May B All other characters C PotemkinNemo's GGXrd tier listEveryone can see that they're strong: Zato, FaustStill pretty strong: Sol, Ky, Millia, MayAverage: Axl, Chipp, I-No, BedmanWhat a shame: Slayer, VenomGoodbye: Potemkin -Ver. 1.02- Ogawa's GGXrd tier list S Zato, Chipp, Faust A Ky, Sol, Millia, May, Ramlethal(projected) B Everyone else Machaboo’s GGXrd tier list S Zato, Sol, Faust, Millia A Chipp, Ky, May, Axl B I-No, Slayer, Bedman, Ramlethal C Venom D Potemkin -Ver. 1.03- JT’s GGXrd tier list S Sol, Faust, Zato A Ramlethal, Chipp, Ky B I-No, Axl, Slayer, Millia, May, Venom C Bedman, Potemkin FAB’s GGXrd tier list S Zato, Faust, Sol A Millia, Ramlethal, Chipp B Ky, May, Axl, I-No C Venom, Slayer, Bedman D Potemkin -Ver. 1.04- Kiisha’s GGXrd tier list S Sol, Zato, Faust, Ramlethal S- Chipp, Millia A Ky, May, Axl, Slayer B Bedman, I-No, Venom C Potemkin Woshige's GGXrd tier list (*Note: He mention that he has not had much experience against Zato-1 and Axl Low ) S Faust, Millia, Chipp Zanuff, Ramlethal, Zato-One A Sol, Ky B I-No, Slayer, Venom, Potemkin, Bedman, May C Axl-Low Quote: As a general disclaimer, tiers are not the end all of skill. The person playing the character and their ability with that character generally plays a greater role than tiers alone. Tiers list are worth examining so we can better learn what makes strong characters strong and safe characters safe. All pro players already know that player skill is far more important than character strength. Since differences do exist, tier list are made to understand them. The game is still young and it's only for the Japanese arcades, so the Xrd tier is constantly changing, and will most likely change over all by the time it hits console.
TeeJay Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Ogawa made a tier list and is posting reasoning in other tweets. Note that I don't know Japanese but can make out the tier list via google translate:https://twitter.com/ogawaeddie S: Millia, Zato, Faust, Ramlethal A: I-No, Sol=Ky, Chipp=Venom B: Everyone else So let's try this again. Discussing this tier list, or any other tier list is cool. Discussing whether tier lists in general are useful or not or flaming others is not. Now I need to remember Woshige's list. He had Chipp at S which is interesting. lol Nvm after the great post before me. Intriguing. It seems i-no is getting jerked around a bit. Perhaps her potential is deceptive to most.
D.R.F. Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Ogawa made a tier list and is posting reasoning in other tweets. Note that I don't know Japanese but can make out the tier list via google translate:https://twitter.com/ogawaeddie S: Millia, Zato, Faust, Ramlethal A: I-No, Sol=Ky, Chipp=Venom B: Everyone else So let's try this again. Discussing this tier list, or any other tier list is cool. Discussing whether tier lists in general are useful or not or flaming others is not. this list is interesting, if no more than for the fact that ogawa gave venom a bit more love than other people. there are consistencies on the bottom though such as Pot (poor FAB),and Axl later on. tbh characters like may and bedman seem to be at disadvantage because either they have an awkward and unreliable way to establish a presence (May, since dolphins do that much for her) or that they can do that, but it doesn't matter because they don't get enough mileage from it (Bedman) Pot is just painful to watch, and it is amazing to see how much priority his normals don't seem to have. On Axl they took his design for the worse, but that is a longer rant.
Mumm-Ra Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I still think it's weird to have more than 3 top tier characters in the game.
sren Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I believe so. Hot Damn Fino was on fire that day. yeah, playin' on point that day. quite an epic run
Solid Gold Wall Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 i'm curious about ogawa's reasoning behind placing chipp anywhere other than top tier. and from what i've seen, i-no doesn't seem quite on sol's level, but who knows?
Kieofire Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Have never seen so many characters listed as S-tier (as in Woshige's list), it makes it look really fun though. Looks pretty uniform across the patches in the other lists (aside from some changes in them).
greatfernman Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I'm going through ogawa's tweets starting from the tier list. something dai missed out was that he says ramlethal is barely S tier. I'll check back with translations and summaries once I get through however many characters I feel like. Don't expect too much from me though I'm only doing as much as interests me.
Narroo Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Yea that makes Sense Hm, not sure I like the tone of that newline. But really, that flag, last I checked, looks large enough to obscure a torso. Depending on the move, it might look either akward or obstruct your view unless the cloth itself somehow had active frames. Imagine him doing an a slow, literal, overhead strike with poor recovery. It would be possible, with the right parameters, for your opponent to start moving while the flag is covering them.
D.R.F. Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Hm, not sure I like the tone of that newline. But really, that flag, last I checked, looks large enough to obscure a torso. Depending on the move, it might look either akward or obstruct your view unless the cloth itself somehow had active frames. Imagine him doing an a slow, literal, overhead strike with poor recovery. It would be possible, with the right parameters, for your opponent to start moving while the flag is covering them. That was a typing error never meant for it to mean more what it looks like
greatfernman Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: PLEASE TAKE ALL THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. FOR SOME REASON I HAD A RIDICULOUSLY HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING THE WAY OGAWA TWEETS, I MADE SOME ASSUMPTIONS WITH SOME OF THE PHRASINGS HE CHOSE TO USE, SO I'M NOT ENTIRELY CERTAIN ABOUT MY TRANSLATIONS. BUT HERE IT IS ANYWAY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO READ. I put (?) next to the parts I'm not so certain about. A single question mark for just kind of unsure and two for I'm more unsure and three for I may be completely wrong. Each time I use the phrase 'bullshit move' Ogawa used "kusowaza" like "kusoge" except referring to the move so take that as you will. Zato: I'm very worried, there aren't many zato players, so his strengths could easily change. for now, since other kanto players and I think he's strong, I listed him as strong. (I'm not sure about this part:) he's strong all because of his offense and there haven't been many counter-plans against him(?) (People don't know the match up?) Faust: f.S is the strongest. He's easy and hard to make a mistake with. The problem is some parts of the millia and zato matchups are impossible, but perhaps they can't get through Faut's wall (i assume he's talking about the poking game)(?). He's extremely strong for now. Millia: (I don't understand the first bit, it seems that he's calling millia the strongest but I'm really not sure). Millia may be overtaken by faust, ino or zato. She's stable, but it's not enough to be the strongest by a little(???). The same can be said about zato. Ram: (Something about 4-6 matchups, I have no idea what yaki reiji is so I fail to comprehend the sentence) Recently, there's the impression that she loses to Faust, I-no and Slayer(?). She has a lot of bullshit moves, high damage and setplay, so I don't think she'll drop in rankings, but I'm a little suspicious about it. I-no: This is my own personal evaluation. She can destroy fuzzies midscreen easily. (Some stuff that I'm assuming are I-no specific move names that I don't know in Japanese, but he talks about Chemical YRC) And she has various setplay possibilities. Venom: Venom's neutral is strong, and everyone get's opened up by him, even the people who don't seem like they're going to be opened up. Balls open up multiple yomi possibilites (?)(I'm not sure because I'm not sure what that would mean), and aren't bad. I wonder how the Millia and Faust matchups are? At the moments venom is forced to block against chipp, he has a bullshit move (j.H?), but they're easily blitz shielded since blitz cannot be crossed up (inputed in neutral). Also, there were some posts with sol and ky and YRC and blitz shield stuff but I got too lazy to read those
destruction_adv Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: PLEASE TAKE ALL THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. FOR SOME REASON I HAD A RIDICULOUSLY HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING THE WAY OGAWA TWEETS, I MADE SOME ASSUMPTIONS WITH SOME OF THE PHRASINGS HE CHOSE TO USE, SO I'M NOT ENTIRELY CERTAIN ABOUT MY TRANSLATIONS. BUT HERE IT IS ANYWAY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO READ. I put (?) next to the parts I'm not so certain about. A single question mark for just kind of unsure and two for I'm more unsure and three for I may be completely wrong. Each time I use the phrase 'bullshit move' Ogawa used "kusowaza" like "kusoge" except referring to the move so take that as you will. Zato: I'm very worried, there aren't many zato players, so his strengths could easily change. for now, since other kanto players and I think he's strong, I listed him as strong. (I'm not sure about this part:) he's strong all because of his offense and there haven't been many counter-plans against him(?) (People don't know the match up?) Faust: f.S is the strongest. He's easy and hard to make a mistake with. The problem is some parts of the millia and zato matchups are impossible, but perhaps they can't get through Faut's wall (i assume he's talking about the poking game)(?). He's extremely strong for now. Millia: (I don't understand the first bit, it seems that he's calling millia the strongest but I'm really not sure). Millia may be overtaken by faust, ino or zato. She's stable, but it's not enough to be the strongest by a little(???). The same can be said about zato. Ram: (Something about 4-6 matchups, I have no idea what yaki reiji is so I fail to comprehend the sentence) Recently, there's the impression that she loses to Faust, I-no and Slayer(?). She has a lot of bullshit moves, high damage and setplay, so I don't think she'll drop in rankings, but I'm a little suspicious about it. I-no: This is my own personal evaluation. She can destroy fuzzies midscreen easily. (Some stuff that I'm assuming are I-no specific move names that I don't know in Japanese, but he talks about Chemical YRC) And she has various setplay possibilities. Venom: Venom's neutral is strong, and everyone get's opened up by him, even the people who don't seem like they're going to be opened up. Balls open up multiple yomi possibilites (?)(I'm not sure because I'm not sure what that would mean), and aren't bad. I wonder how the Millia and Faust matchups are? (something about chipp being forced to block, i guess he's saying venom can force even chipp to block). Venom has bullshit moves but they're weak if blitz shielded (??). Also, there were some posts with sol and ky and YRC and blitz shield stuff but I got too lazy to read those This is actually very interesting, I was under the impression everyone thought Ramlethal was the ultimate Uberwaifu of the game. On the case of I-no, I always thought she was a bit stronger than she was given credit for.
CCVengeance Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Ogawa made a tier list and is posting reasoning in other tweets. Note that I don't know Japanese but can make out the tier list via google translate:https://twitter.com/ogawaeddie S: Millia, Zato, Faust, Ramlethal A: I-No, Sol=Ky, Chipp=Venom B: Everyone else So let's try this again. Discussing this tier list, or any other tier list is cool. Discussing whether tier lists in general are useful or not or flaming others is not. Chipp=Venom? Implying It's an even MU? Naaaaaaaah...
No Limitz Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Chipp=Venom? Implying It's an even MU? Naaaaaaaah... That's not how it's read...
Coffeeling Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) This is actually very interesting, I was under the impression everyone thought Ramlethal was the ultimate Uberwaifu of the game. On the case of I-no, I always thought she was a bit stronger than she was given credit for. Dunno if I agree with ogawa's assessment of Ramlethal. IMO, she seems more solid than Zato does. Better buttons, her Eddies don't die. Instead of controlling time (=endless katame/asynchornous assault) in a 2d game (though she can setup monstrous lockdown in the corner and has great carry juggles), she controls space. I'd easily say she's a more solid character than Zato is for now. I think there's room to develop in Zato play, a lot of room, but atm the chops just aren't there. Zato's only monster is Ogawa, and he's playing the character wrong a bit suboptimally(IMO). He plays with Eddie as the base, Zato as a complement when the current cast is really good at murdering Eddie and when #R/Xrd Zato is about Zato's strong buttons and Eddie-fueled timing lockdown, with Eddie having relatively weak space control tools compared to AC where Zato's buttons were wimpier and Eddie was a space control monster. Ogawa's style is a perfect fit for AC, not for Xrd. Lesser Zato players play with Zato as a base and fill the holes in his game with Eddie - as #R/Xrd Zato is meant to I think, but they aren't there yet as far as level goes. Solid, but not monstrous. Ogawa is a monster but he needs to retool could get more out of Zato by retooling his play. Edited September 25, 2014 by Coffeeling
Mumm-Ra Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 You know, I never comprehended why people said that Venom was ever bottom tier, he's never seem that weak to me. Can't comprehend why would Ogawa think that he's as strong as Xrd Chipp either though.
D.R.F. Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I think its more that people looked at his overall damage and kind of just passed him by. His space control (as usual) is terrific though.
Mumm-Ra Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Like I said, I never thought of Venom as a weak character by no means, but he's not Xrd Chipp, that guy's ridiculous. Then again not everyone is Samitto. Then again not everyone is Heven or Fino either, so I just don't know. Maybe only people who hail from the east get it.
D.R.F. Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Like I said, I never thought of Venom as a weak character by no means, but he's not Xrd Chipp, that guy's ridiculous. Then again not everyone is Samitto. Then again not everyone is Heven or Fino either, so I just don't know. Maybe only people who hail from the east get it. No like I understand what you said. Im just making a conclusion that could make more reasonable to why they WEREN'T maybe as good. Fino and Isamu make me think otherwise of venom. Chipp is hard. But fuck that guy turning invisible on us lol
destruction_adv Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Dunno if I agree with ogawa's assessment of Ramlethal. IMO, she seems more solid than Zato does. Better buttons, her Eddies don't die. Instead of controlling time (=endless katame/asynchornous assault) in a 2d game (though she can setup monstrous lockdown in the corner and has great carry juggles), she controls space. I'd easily say she's a more solid character than Zato is for now. I think there's room to develop in Zato play, a lot of room, but atm the chops just aren't there. Zato's only monster is Ogawa, and he's playing the character wrong. He plays with Eddie as the base, Zato as a complement when the current cast is really good at murdering Eddie and when #R/Xrd Zato is about Zato's strong buttons and Eddie-fueled timing lockdown, with Eddie having relatively weak space control tools compared to AC where Zato's buttons were wimpier and Eddie was a space control monster. Ogawa's style is a perfect fit for AC, not for Xrd. Lesser Zato players play with Zato as a base and fill the holes in his game with Eddie - as #R/Xrd Zato is meant to, but they aren't there yet as far as level goes. Solid, but not monstrous. Ogawa is a monster but he needs to retool his play. I'm inclined to agree with you, my surprise was more that Ogawa doesn't think so. I'm interested in his assessment though.
NesmerII Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 FAB’s GGXrd tier listS Zato, Faust, SolA Millia, Ramlethal, ChippB Ky, May, Axl, I-NoC Venom, Slayer, BedmanD Potemkin THE GREAT FINAL ATOMIC BUSTER HAS SPOKEN! POTEMKIN F[#RELOAD]UCKING SUCKs! But seriously, I think the most interesting thing here is the C-tier characters. Venom's under discussion (does he just lack Damage?), Slayer lost 2H and Pilebunker range (and damage), and Bedman just seems like a mixed bag, honestly. Also, I would reason that Axl could be here too given his downgraded game-plan. Either way, I'm very interested to see how these characters change in the coming months/releases. Making meh characters good is always more exciting than making good characters great or whipping out the nerf guns.
Amadeus46Art Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Zato's only monster is Ogawa, and he's playing the character wrong. He plays with Eddie as the base, Zato as a complement when the current cast is really good at murdering Eddie and when #R/Xrd Zato is about Zato's strong buttons and Eddie-fueled timing lockdown, with Eddie having relatively weak space control tools compared to AC where Zato's buttons were wimpier and Eddie was a space control monster. Ogawa's style is a perfect fit for AC, not for Xrd. Lesser Zato players play with Zato as a base and fill the holes in his game with Eddie - as #R/Xrd Zato is meant to, but they aren't there yet as far as level goes. Solid, but not monstrous. Ogawa is a monster but he needs to retool his play. "I may have never played Xrd, nor am I nearly as good as Ogawa, who has played Eddie in #R, Slash, AC, and Xrd, but let me say why he's playing the character wrong despite overwhelming evidence otherwise and his over 90% win ratio" This is literally what you're saying. I hope this puts in perspective how silly you sound right now.
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