Blade Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 As far as Forcebreaks go... there's a lot of things I'd argue are redundant in function. Why would Potemkin need an Air Pot Buster if he's got Heat Knuckle as an anti-air grab? Maybe it does more damage at the cost of meter, but Heat Knuckle was built to GIVE him meter last I checked. Ky had Stun Raise, which basically was an enhanced version of his jumping Dust at the cost of Tension. Now instead he can place grinders from j.D and enhance his Stun Edge shots for even more range and damage... at NO TENSION COST. Think about it! Which is better? Powerful moves that don't cost Tension or gain Tension? Or enhanced moves that cost tension for damage. I mean yeah, I'm not saying there's no room for both... and having one over the other could save you in a pinch... but in my experience having Tension meter is safer in most situations than NOT having it. Survival Mode taught me this fact all too well. Blowing tension on forcebreaks might be nice for a quick burst of damage, but if you make a mistake and don't have the meter you were eager to spend to save yourself with a YRC or Faultless Defense... (when you could've used a similar move to GAIN tension instead), you're not exactly in a good situation. That's my argument on why Forcebreaks shouldn't be redundant and be WORTH the cost (i.e. efficient).
DaiAndOh Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 As far as Forcebreaks go... there's a lot of things I'd argue are redundant in function. Why would Potemkin need an Air Pot Buster if he's got Heat Knuckle as an anti-air grab? Maybe it does more damage at the cost of meter, but Heat Knuckle was built to GIVE him meter last I checked. Ky had Stun Raise, which basically was an enhanced version of his jumping Dust at the cost of Tension. Now instead he can place grinders from j.D and enhance his Stun Edge shots for even more range and damage... at NO TENSION COST. Think about it! Which is better? Powerful moves that don't cost Tension or gain Tension? Or enhanced moves that cost tension for damage. I mean yeah, I'm not saying there's no room for both... and having one over the other could save you in a pinch... but in my experience having Tension meter is safer in most situations than NOT having it. Survival Mode taught me this fact all too well. Blowing tension on forcebreaks might be nice for a quick burst of damage, but if you make a mistake and don't have the meter you were eager to spend to save yourself with a YRC or Faultless Defense... (when you could've used a similar move to GAIN tension instead), you're not exactly in a good situation. That's my argument on why Forcebreaks shouldn't be redundant and be WORTH the cost (i.e. efficient). Air Pot Buster isn't an anti-air grab in function, it's an air combo tool, for Potemkin's air combos rather than his ground combos. The two of them are completely different in function...how? Stun Raise controlled space persistently for longer periods of time without needing to be activated, unlike the seals.
Wild Pegasus Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 I think watered down isnt the term you are looking for, instead it should be shortcut. When people use the term watered down, usually it means that the game intentionally from the get go make things easily for people who cant get a hang with the mechanics of the previous iterations. While a shortcut deals with an advantage that someone has found, as long as the requirements that is needed are followed. I dont think that OS burst bait is put inside the game on purpose, but since it's useful, people are going to take advantage of it and will be another thing people that will be taking this game serious should keep that in mind.
Blade Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Except for the fact that Potemkin isn't exactly built for air combos. I'm pretty sure ICPM is Potemkin's 'meterless' go-to tool for that now (ICPM is built to send them in to the corner, besides, input-wise I think air pot buster either pulled you towards or away from the corner depending on how it was input). For Ky, j.D Grinder seals are now a mixup option more than just 'temporary space control'. Maybe they don't last as long as Stun Raise for an actual hitbox, but the seals themselves stay out long enough to serve as a 'mental threat' that Ky could throw a Stun Edge in them later at any time the seals are out and he's near them. For Ky players, just being able to threaten with an enhanced Stun Edge can be enough to get them in for a mixup, I'd think... and if it isn't, players can just throw Stun Edge through the seal, get a mini-Durandal until players respect it, until they decide to throw people off their game and do something else... all without spending meter.
DaiAndOh Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Potemkin was certainly built for air combos in AC+R. He wasn't so much in AC, but having that option made his short air combos really powerful helping them out. Yes Grinders are different than EX Star. It's DIFFERENT. That's the point. I'm not saying Force breaks need to be Xrd, should be in Xrd or anything like that. I'm saying they're not inferior options at all. Part of the reason I hear they were removed was because there were too many good options for 25 meter (yet YRC exists...ok ASW...)
D.R.F. Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Well, first off, you still have to set up grinders, they can't be placed there for free. Secondly, the hitbox on j.D is not as good as the forcebreak. No where near it actually I think. Also, btw ICPM is a finicky way to try and get knockdown, only comboing from j.H if 1. The spacing is correct and 2. There isn't too much hitstun decay. Fb buster brought potemkin not only a great damage tool, but you where also setup for optimal okizeme setups. And Pot had swag air-combos too. Ever see the AC FAB air combo? Shit was sick. And people didn't burn meter on fb simply because they were there, but because that and FRCs where the most reliable and useful ways to use tension. It wasn't super useful if you used a character that didn't have really important fb like sol, but even then you didn't use tension much unless you wanted to frc gunflame or do wierd shit. And then you have Slayer. And Big Bang Upper combos.
king of heart Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 I am not sure about the frame data. But Ky's j.D is way better than before. It's bigger and it activate a little bit later and stay longer (gameplay impression on this one didn't compare the frame data) and it really really easy to hit confirm out of it.
Narroo Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Potemkin was certainly built for air combos in AC+R. He wasn't so much in AC, but having that option made his short air combos really powerful helping them out. Yes Grinders are different than EX Star. It's DIFFERENT. That's the point. I'm not saying Force breaks need to be Xrd, should be in Xrd or anything like that. I'm saying they're not inferior options at all. Part of the reason I hear they were removed was because there were too many good options for 25 meter (yet YRC exists...ok ASW...) I think YRC is the only 25 meter option now, isn't it? (How much is Blitz Shield?)
Clousephinat Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Same cost, but the risks are much higher. And even if it's successful you have to react quickly or the one with the rejected can get another block on you.
SolxBaiken Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 can get another block on you. Remember that you can counter-Blitz while in Blitz stun as well, this leaves a lot of consideration on both sides during an exchange.
Clousephinat Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Remember that you can counter-Blitz while in Blitz stun as well, this leaves a lot of consideration on both sides during an exchange. Of course, in fact I'm not sure if it will be also possible with a normal block (in the air), but I guess so.
DaiAndOh Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 I think YRC is the only 25 meter option now, isn't it? (How much is Blitz Shield?) As stated it is 25, but I'm referencing how powerful YRC is in this case.
stickystaines Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 My view on OS's are that they have to introduce some sort of risk when performed to be considered to not be detrimental to the game. All fighting games are about balancing risk and reward and OS's by their nature skew this ratio in favour of the person who is performing the OS. This can be okay if the OS is used to counter balance an already low risk/high reward strategy from the opponent, but if they don't, then they have to introduce a different kind of risk if performed. For example SF4 crouch throw tech runs the risk of getting CH into more damage than a throw would. Basically if there is no reason not to do the OS, then it's probably not good for the game as a whole.
Pichy Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Does anyone of you know whether the game will be available on PSN? I overheard a bunch of people who said that they will just buy US PSN credit and get the game that way (the way you would usually buy DLC). I was under the impression that you need a physical copy, ergo have to import it if youre european. If there's a way around having to do so I would really like to know. CBA waiting multiple weeks because customs needs ages to send out a notification again. It absolutely will be. If you want the American copy, it'll be out on the 16th December. You just need to make a US Playstation Network account. You can use information from this importing guide but simply say you're from American when making the account instead of Japan. The account won't accept your credit/debit card, so you'll need to buy PSNbux cards from an online store. Play-Asia have fast delivery but a bit of markup. DLC has to be from the same region you bought the game.
king of heart Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 So Potemkin can now do unblockable slide head RC into Shoulder loops near the corner. FAB keeps coming up with many Pot techs. Also ending combos with overdrives during hell fire seems to do a really good chunk of damage.
Flick Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 So Potemkin can now do unblockable slide head RC into Shoulder loops near the corner. He's started doing it months ago. Seems like he's improving his execution with the loop - perfecten it and find out more situation that can use it. But in the recent vid i've seen him drop a little more than like 2 or 3 months ago, maybe he's been choosing the harder-longer
Pichy Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 The rule for Potemkin corner combos in Xrd is pretty much "if you RC'd something, you can do 6K loops."
XXXDC Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 He's started doing it months ago. Seems like he's improving his execution with the loop - perfecten it and find out more situation that can use it. But in the recent vid i've seen him drop a little more than like 2 or 3 months ago, maybe he's been choosing the harder-longer He's going for the longer loop. The first 6k loops were shorter.
DVLtrigger Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Has there been any footage of people actually getting any combos off of danger time? From what I've seen all it will be good for are combo vids.
UltimaOriginal Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD9mIQgu_UE&feature=youtube_gdata_player I think the beginning says everything.
Destin Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 There are OS's all over guilty gear. I don't know why we are so worried, the throw/lower level hit OS is considerably more powerful than a simple YRC through bursts at certain tensions. The concept of the FB isn't horrible (although really unnecessary in GG), it's just the implementation was less than ideal.
FinalDoomGuy Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD9mIQgu_UE&feature=youtube_gdata_player I think the beginning says everything. Wow, that was fucking dumb. Also, what was with the weird discordant version of Starry Story they used? Or is that just my own audio being weird?
Sanger Zonvolt Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Have to say Tsubu is one of my favorite players now.
Stellarcircle5 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Have to say Tsubu is one of my favorite players now. I know right? His corner mixups with Bedman are freaking disgusting.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Has there been any footage of people actually getting any combos off of danger time? From what I've seen all it will be good for are combo vids. Most people just do basic BnBs since Mortal Counter's absurd hitstun only applies to the first hit of the combo, and Danger Time adds a massive amount of damage anyway so there's not necessarily any point to coming up with fancy combos.
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