Your pet-peeves netplaying.

[Dark Ranger88]

Well I know what to do when we play now.

 

mAc trying to pretend that wildly mashing C attacks, and wakeup counters/throw isn't his default playstyle

 

Capcom games and even Guilty allow you to get away with wake up throw at lower levels because opponents don't have their oki game solid.  Hell in Guilty wake up throw is a powerful tool because of how good it is.

And to me, getting grabbed on your oki options just means that you messed up

 

Sometimes your character just doesn't have reliable oki against another character, and there's nothing you can really do about it.

 

Let's take Extend Makoto vs. Hakumen as an example:

 

Orb oki gets you hit by an unblockable drive.

Highs get beaten by 6D.

Lows get beaten by 2D.

Mids lose to 2D or 6D.

Throws get teched or beaten by jump > Hotaru.

Blocking gets you pressured or thrown

Backing away lets him out for free...

 

There was literally no safe way to gain momentum against Hakumen in that game if you were playing as Makoto, he had an option that could beat ALL of yours. THANK THE HEAVENS that 6D isn't active on frame one anymore.

[Errol]

for a lot of characters you can have better odds just returning to neutral.

 

certainly with tsubaki, if you don't have charge, the risk:reward is not in your favor to do anything on hakumen's wakeup.

[StylisH]

 

mAc trying to pretend that wildly mashing C attacks, and wakeup counters/throw isn't his default playstyle

 

 

Sometimes your character just doesn't have reliable oki against another character, and there's nothing you can really do about it.

 

Let's take Extend Makoto vs. Hakumen as an example:

 

Orb oki gets you hit by an unblockable drive.

Highs get beaten by 6D.

Lows get beaten by 2D.

Mids lose to 2D or 6D.

Throws get teched or beaten by jump > Hotaru.

Blocking gets you pressured or thrown

Backing away lets him out for free...

 

There was literally no safe way to gain momentum against Hakumen in that game if you were playing as Makoto, he had an option that could beat ALL of yours. THANK THE HEAVENS that 6D isn't active on frame one anymore.

 

True, however if someone is being THAT predictable on wake up, that's a free bait and punish.  Mak doesn't possess great oki as is.  And Haku is the one character in the game where respect on his wake up is a given.  Defense is his specialty.

[mAc Chaos]

mAc trying to pretend that wildly mashing C attacks, and wakeup counters/throw isn't his default playstyle

I was waiting to see how long that would take to be said. :P

Also what would be your safe way to gain momentum against Inferno Divider? In theory most characters can get out of any situation. It's just not going to happen because you have to play the player on oki.

For Hakumen you could still do orb oki (in Extend) and then jump over any counters he does for some jump in/empty jump low throw mixup.

[Dark Ranger88]

True, however if someone is being THAT predictable on wake up, that's a free bait and punish.  Mak doesn't possess great oki as is.  And Haku is the one character in the game where respect on his wake up is a given.  Defense is his specialty.

 

Good Hakumen players used his options on wakeup and were NEVER a free bait and punish because they mixed it up and were never predictable. And...like I said...trying to get a "free bait and punish" leads to stuff like wakeup > throw, wakeup > 2A/etc, or wakeup > jump out.

 

But it's really a moot point now because he no longer has a frame one high counter.

 

I was just using it as an example to say that sometimes you get fucked up on your own oki and it's not really your fault.

 

I was waiting to see how long that would take to be said. :P

Also what would be your safe way to gain momentum against Inferno Divider? In theory most characters can get out of any situation. It's just not going to happen because you have to play the player on oki.

For Hakumen you could still do orb oki (in Extend) and then jump over any counters he does for some jump in/empty jump low throw mixup.

 

Nah the counters were too fast and the orb's recovery was too slow. You'd still get grabbed even if you tried to jump over it. (I just tested this in Extend btw).

 

 

And Inferno Divider could be safe jumped or have it's input crossed up (although it still was a huge problem to deal with). Hakumen's old 6D....not so much. Also with the upcoming change to Mu's DP, will there be any characters with reversal options that can't be safejumped or countered with some type of attack?

[mAc Chaos]

Nah the counters were too fast and the orb's recovery was too slow. You'd still get grabbed even if you tried to jump over it. (I just tested this in Extend btw).

 

 

And Inferno Divider could be safe jumped or have it's input crossed up (although it still was a huge problem to deal with). Hakumen's old 6D....not so much. Also with the upcoming change to Mu's DP, will there be any characters with reversal options that can't be safejumped or countered with some type of attack?

Nah that's wrong. Omni would do it all the time against me, and it would dodge my 6Ds. You must be doing something different.

[Dark Ranger88]

Nah that's wrong. Omni would do it all the time against me, and it would dodge my 6Ds. You must be doing something different.

 

Hmmmm...I don't know what he was doing then. Are you sure you're not talking about CS2? Every orb setup I can think of is too slow for jump to dodge any of Hakumen's counters...

 

Maybe that bastard was hiding some secret tech???

[StylisH]

No.  No character should have a get out of jail free card (outside of burst) that can't be safe jumped.  If that was the case, people could do whatever they wanted on wake up.  USF4 I'm looking at you.....

[mAc Chaos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alf39apaBAk

I'm sure it's in my FT10 with Omni somewhere here. I'll grab it after I'm done playing with someone.

[Airk]

More pet peeves incoming:

 

1.) People who NORMAL throw on their own wakeup - How obnoxious and disrespectful do you have to be to try this? Common offenders are Hakumen (and jump Hotaru), Kagura, and sometimes Ragna. It makes me mad when someone keeps trying this, even when I've stopped it plenty of times......*sigh* It's like blocking on their wakeup is NEVER an option. It's always mash reversal, mash A, mash jump, mash throw, or try to roll

I think most people who do this are actually just trying to throw tech. :P

[Icekin]

Since it just happened and it's a really minor annoyance rather than a legit complaint, amazingly good players who've been at it for months but never bothered to touch Ranked, who then decide they're going to grind them points. Cue 40 effortless victories against new players. It's fine to do it, getting to that high level will mean another way to connect to good players waiting for matches, but being another stepping stone on their climb to the top is less than enjoyable. :<

[susano]

2.) Hakumen damage - Whereas I have to play smart and safe, whiff punish, and be very precise with anti-airs, Hakumen players can just jump around flailing out C attacks like a moron and get HUGE  reward for doing so (especially online in delay). Why does 3C do 1200 damage? Why does j.C do 1300 damage? If I hit you in the face with a slow ass level 3 punch, it only does 1000 damage. And if Haku gets a counter hit....you're losing 4-6k in like 4 hits... I used to not think there were any braindead characters, but CP Hakumen has changed my mind.

 

Getting hit by any of Hakumen's C attacks is WORSE than eating a raw Crush Trigger from the entire cast...

 

You described my annoyance with Hakumen perfectly.

 

Lag abusing Hakumen players are guilty of this.

 

 

Since it just happened and it's a really minor annoyance rather than a legit complaint, amazingly good players who've been at it for months but never bothered to touch Ranked, who then decide they're going to grind them points. Cue 40 effortless victories against new players. It's fine to do it, getting to that high level will mean another way to connect to good players waiting for matches, but being another stepping stone on their climb to the top is less than enjoyable. :<

 

 

I can see that being annoying. But always check their square status. I know squares mean crap but if they're an orange or pink, steer clear if you're a beginner.

[Arcus Diabolus]

At least we can say we dont have League of Legend's community. Holy hell, you could be all \(^□^)/ with this new guy and one wrong move and he gets all (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

 

I've yet to see someone get that ticked off yet in a fighting game.

[Elochai]

At least we can say we dont have League of Legend's community. Holy hell, you could be all \(^□^)/ with this new guy and one wrong move and he gets all (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

 

I've yet to see someone get that ticked off yet in a fighting game.

 

Not an airdasher, but yep.

[Arcus Diabolus]

Not an airdasher, but yep.

Well, I stand corrected. Still, I haven't met one yet. Sure, there is the occasional frustrated player that is dealing with a loseing streak that day, but I have yet to meet someone who outright screams into their mic and tells people to kill themselves like in most FPS games and League. 

[NecroTheReaper]

Going for a DD finisher intending to kill with it just to have them get back up with that nonexistent sliver of HP and end up losing the round for it. Yeah, I realize that I shouldn't just inherently lose from this, but I sorta freak out when it doesnt kill xD

[Monarch]

This is a peeve about myself. I hate when I get cocky and try to outmaneuver my opponent in an attempt to go for Astral, then get bodied. Or when I save my burst because I think I'm going to make a hype OD combo comeback.

[BoltofShadow]

This is a peeve about myself. I hate when I get cocky and try to outmaneuver my opponent in an attempt to go for Astral, then get bodied. Or when I save my burst because I think I'm going to make a hype OD combo comeback.

We all have those moments. It makes us feel stupid when it doesn't come to fruition.

[NecroTheReaper]

See, its a double-edged sword. Pop random astral on wakeup and it succeeds: opponent feels like the biggest idiot on the planet. Pop random astral on wakeup and it fails: you look like an idiot AND probably feel bad for doin such a douche move xD

[Errol]

if you have 100 heat and have access to a reversal DD that you can RC or just a plain dp you can RC, then yeah, it is dumb, and yeah, it should probably work pretty rarely unless they messed up.

 

all totally different with rachel, who has none of those things

[ScottMan]

I hate in p4a (and probably others) when you start to body someone, and they know it's the end for them, then they start doing Dragon Punches and Auto Combos.

Basically being desperate and cheap.

[BoltofShadow]

If you know they're gonna dp, bait it. That's not being cheap, certainly desperate though.

[ScottMan]

If you know they're gonna dp, bait it. That's not being cheap, certainly desperate though.

I know, I just hate it though. And it's usually when they spam too much when I hate it... especially Netplay Kanji...

[George Costanza]

My inability to remember that Hazama's 214D-B is NOT a DP

 

COME ON THOUGH

JUST LOOK AT IT!

HOW IS NOT ONE!?

[NecroTheReaper]

Hazama has to troll the 4th wall somehow.