Airk Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) To be fair, 214214d super ended up being key for her to actually deal damage in CS1 and yet basically nobody used it. (Then again nobody used Tsubaki so ya lol.) That's like saying "Blood Kain was totally key to Ragna's damage." - it doesn't really matter how 'good' something is if it basically has a huge flag on it that says "Use your burst now". It's not like you have other good combos that that people are going to want to burst, so either you whittle them down to enough life where they feel threatened by your normal combo and burst it, and then it doesn't MATTER that you can do 4k+ with install super because they've only got 2k health, or you try to do Install Super while they still actually have life and they burst you. If you somehow manage to land starters good enough to do install super, twice, while having both 1+ charges and AND 50 meter, you would've won regardless. The only nerf it looks like she got is Install SMP which is probably just because of that dumb fireball>charge>repeat combo. I imagine it is more made to make SMP matter and I doubt there aren't better combos out there that don't involve heavy SMP use. Double nope. Projectile is probably a significant nerf. 6C is probably a moderate nerf. (Special cancel is sortof irrelevant, so it all depends on what the heck they are actually talking about with regard to the hitstop). And considering that the "Dumb" fireball>charge>repeat combo (that is no dumber than any of the various boring looking jump loop combos that half the cast STILL has) is using a move with a P2 of 99, I doubt we're going to suddenly discover "Oh, it'd be a much better idea to use some of our 'meh' grade other D moves instead! How did we not notice this before in 14 months of trying to find combos?" don't you think? The thing that still hurts my brain is that there are so many simple little changes that would make Tsubaki so much more dangerous that wouldn't change anything fundamental about her character at all. Like, you know, making some of her normals less hilariously slow. (Go go 2B, slowest 2B in the game, and extra bad proration to boot! What an awesome close range rushdown character we have here.) Apparently, Mori has decided to balance her according to story mode or something, where she loses all her fights. :P (Not actually true, she only loses the ones she cares about.) No one here is saying "Tsubaki needs nothing but buffs!"; Everyone is saying "Wouldn't it be nice if the changes resulted in a net improvement instead of a net nerf to a character that basically is only played by a tiny handful of people because she's not good?" Edited February 14, 2014 by Airk
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I'll say it straight up. Tsubaki needs buffs, and I hate foghting tsubaki cuz I have no idea how to play the matchup lol.
Airk Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I mean, cripes, they could at least just tamper with the hitboxes on her moves so half of her combos don't need character specific modifications. A little quality of life or something? Or undo the random nerfs to 5BB and 2C they gave us for CP? Something? Nah. "We're going to speed up the projectile you depend on for neutral control and oki, that'll make you better, right?" ... No?
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 The more I read this thread, the more I think they should just keep nerfing Tsubaki. The salt level is just fantastic.
Appledash- Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Which characters have been able to hit 19th Dan? I know Mitsurugi's Hazama and some Jin players have. Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
Lucalibur Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 The more I read this thread, the more I think they should just keep nerfing Tsubaki. The salt level is just fantastic. Aye QFT.
Airk Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Salt totally keeps people playing the game, right? At this point, it's less the predictably depressing changes and more the "Well, I don't think you deserve anything, hurr, you're obviously doing it wrong if you haven't found a less 'dumb' combo, there must be something wrong with your character's "design"" nonsense from the "Community" that produces the frustration. Edited February 14, 2014 by Airk
STenSatsu Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I mean, cripes, they could at least just tamper with the hitboxes on her moves so half of her combos don't need character specific modifications. A little quality of life or something? Or undo the random nerfs to 5BB and 2C they gave us for CP? Something? Nah. "We're going to speed up the projectile you depend on for neutral control and oki, that'll make you better, right?" ... No? She and Makoto definitely could use a bit of love. Though I do think people are underrating current Tsubaki a bit since you guys sound like she's as bad as the bottom tier. Though I was one of the people trying to find anything good and use it back in CS1 so maybe I'm overrating her since I'm also playing garbage tier this game.
Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seems like the bit I heard about all jump attacks having shorter combo timers is true. Seeing some reports in from twitter. Very confusing change.
Yazumatto Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Which characters have been able to hit 19th Dan? I know Mitsurugi's Hazama and some Jin players have. Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk Platinum (Daiwa), Relius (Ryo), Nu (Gentarou), Rachel (N_O), Tao (Isa, Tsujikawa), and Litchi (Puromete) have been seen at 19th dan at one point or another along with various Jin and Hazama players. Ironically, the #1 ranked player currently is an Azrael player at 19th dan. I don't know him though
Airk Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seems like the bit I heard about all jump attacks having shorter combo timers is true. Seeing some reports in from twitter. Very confusing change. I am not sure what the objective is for that change. Come to that, I'm not even sure what that change will MEAN for the game. x.x I mean, it's not like people are going to stop doing jump ins because they're doing less damage. I mean, if it's just a proration change, it probably won't even change the combos people DO from their jumpins, so like... I guess it...reduces overall damage? But what a weird way to approach it.
Lucalibur Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Ironically, the #1 ranked player currently is an Azrael player at 19th dan. I don't know him though You just had to mention this. Now they're gonna use it as fuel to start the sequel to Salt Wars.
XDest Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Tao keeps espacing the hammer of justice. What dirt do you have on ArcSys. The character is hard to nerf without breaking the character, and they have had 5 games to figure out how the character is supposed to be played. That's probably the best explanation I can think of. Same reason Hazama and Valkenhayn are always top or at least right next to top.
Myoro Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seems like the bit I heard about all jump attacks having shorter combo timers is true. Seeing some reports in from twitter. Very confusing change. *A face of true despair* If this is true I'm not going to download this patch.
Dark Ranger88 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seems like the bit I heard about all jump attacks having shorter combo timers is true. Seeing some reports in from twitter. Very confusing change. What the hell? They were already N starters. The only thing below that is S and VS. If this change is true then characters with reliable ground mixup/standing overheads just got way better in the metagame. People who rely on jump attack/low mixup are going to be doing less damaging versions of throw combos (minus the ~1500 dmg that throws add). Thas crazy.
Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 honestly too many bad people can end up getting bopped by tsubaki, or makoto, for people to ever want to see them buffed. even tho they are super basic chars. That's just how it is. Better to switch if you care. Lots already have. Now, about this jump change. That's probably the significant rachel nerf. But that'll also hurt Izayoi quite a bit.
mAc Chaos Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 The character is hard to nerf without breaking the character, and they have had 5 games to figure out how the character is supposed to be played. That's probably the best explanation I can think of. Same reason Hazama and Valkenhayn are always top or at least right next to top. You could say that about all the other characters like Hakumen too though. What if she resembled her CT style more? I recall her being good but not unbearable with ridiculously long CS1 style combos.
XDest Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 You could say that about all the other characters like Hakumen too though. What if she resembled her CT style more? I recall her being good but not unbearable with ridiculously long CS1 style combos. To be honest, if she was put in this game at CT state she would be way better than she is now, which is scary as hell. She had almost 4k midscreen standing combos off 5B that ended in a hard knockdown. The only reason she wasn't top was because of horrible matchups with the top tiers, mostly Arakune/Jin/Rachel. The only thing worse about CT Tao would probably be the lack of j.B, and the recovery on her drives. She also didn't have the max D range (it kept going in CT and CS1), sticky kitty jump went twice as far, she had no lock on her D moves after exhausting her jumps (added in BBCP). CT Tao was extremely good.
Luminos564 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Now, about this jump change. That's probably the significant rachel nerf. But that'll also hurt Izayoi quite a bit. I just thought it was ASW's, rather messy, way of forcing the game to be more "on the ground" as opposed to "in the air" for the combos. Though mentioning Izayoi, it might indeed make her game a lot weaker as I don't recall her being on the ground all the time for her most damaging stuff.
Lucalibur Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Reading XDest's post is one of the things in BB I always feel sad over remembering. Characters just keep getting nerfed with every patch and by this point the top tiers are only top because they got 'nerfed the least in this patch'. Compared to CT\CS1 most chars in CP are pretty ass.
Airk Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 To be honest, if she was put in this game at CT state she would be way better than she is now, which is scary as hell. She had almost 4k midscreen standing combos off 5B that ended in a hard knockdown. The only reason she wasn't top was because of horrible matchups with the top tiers, mostly Arakune/Jin/Rachel. The only thing worse about CT Tao would probably be the lack of j.B, and the recovery on her drives. She also didn't have the max D range (it kept going in CT and CS1), sticky kitty jump went twice as far, she had no lock on her D moves after exhausting her jumps (added in BBCP). CT Tao was extremely good. Damage numbers don't really matter - it's EASY for them to tune how much damage a character's combos do. It's Tao's neutral game that is hard to manipulate. Giving her recovery on her drives would drag her down fast and make a huge difference.
Airk Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Reading XDest's post is one of the things in BB I always feel sad over remembering. Characters just keep getting nerfed with every patch and by this point the top tiers are only top because they got 'nerfed the least in this patch'. Compared to CT\CS1 most chars in CP are pretty ass. This is NOT A BAD THING. Do you REALLY WANT characters pooping out 5k damage combos from 5A again like in CS1?
mAc Chaos Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Reading XDest's post is one of the things in BB I always feel sad over remembering. Characters just keep getting nerfed with every patch and by this point the top tiers are only top because they got 'nerfed the least in this patch'. Compared to CT\CS1 most chars in CP are pretty ass. Well what XDest is implying is that ArcSys has had time to figure out these characters and that they WANT them to be top tier, just like Capcom wants Sagat to always be great. To be honest, if she was put in this game at CT state she would be way better than she is now, which is scary as hell. She had almost 4k midscreen standing combos off 5B that ended in a hard knockdown. The only reason she wasn't top was because of horrible matchups with the top tiers, mostly Arakune/Jin/Rachel. The only thing worse about CT Tao would probably be the lack of j.B, and the recovery on her drives. She also didn't have the max D range (it kept going in CT and CS1), sticky kitty jump went twice as far, she had no lock on her D moves after exhausting her jumps (added in BBCP). CT Tao was extremely good. Huh. I guess that fits in with the rest of the CT characters. CT 2 good
Yazumatto Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 You just had to mention this. Now they're gonna use it as fuel to start the sequel to Salt Wars. Fuck that, people gotta know that based god Azrael is #1. Let them get salty.
Appledash- Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Is it Dogura by any chance? Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
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