[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Diamond Dust]

New Low Orochi no stomps...

A Shame.

[Starlight777]

New Low Orochi no stomps...

A Shame.

That's not even the worst part. He can't even combo from the damn thing if he lands it. It better do at least 2.5k on its own if it can't even be followed up.

[Fame96]

Overhead orochi does 2418 raw. The new low version needs to at least do this much.

[Dark Ranger88]

Overhead orochi does 2418 raw. The new low version needs to at least do this much.

If they have the same amount of startup it'll probably be hard to block. They look almost exactly the same from what I can tell.

[Luminos564]

Wow, Haku-men REALLY doesn't gain meter much in the air anymore. I wasn't expecting the impact of that nerf to be that big but yeah, the meter gain slows down to a crawl when he's in the air. Even worse if he's being air-comboed. Which is likely going to suck for him since his air-dash is the best movement option he's got. Dunno if this will outright stop Unit Cookie Dough damage but time will tell I guess.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Luminos564

[TD]

That's not even the worst part. He can't even combo from the damn thing if he lands it. It better do at least 2.5k on its own if it can't even be followed up.

it can't be RC'd? what about the new orochi, apparently that doesn't combo midscreen anymore. and doesn't one of them have invul? it should be a decent mixup regardless, especially with heat to back it up, very practical.

i'm more worried on starter values if anything...

[Starlight777]

it can't be RC'd? what about the new orochi, apparently that doesn't combo midscreen anymore. and doesn't one of them have invul? it should be a decent mixup regardless, especially with heat to back it up, very practical.

i'm more worried on starter values if anything...

I don't know if it can be RC'd, if that's possible it would be nice for closing a round at the least. It does look practical on match ups that don't have a decent DP to bail out with. I'm not sure which of the two has invuln, I'm hoping they both do. I'll take any new mix ups I can get for this character though.

[Myoro]

Overhead orochi does 2418 raw. The new low version needs to at least do this much.

What if it had redonkulously good P1, or maybe reverse prorate? They gotta do something with it, cuz not being combo-able kinda defeats the purpose of it mixing up...

Also I know it's speculation at this point, but I'd bet the farm that OD "A" Orochi was combo-able and the two of them have a yin/yang thing going on. "B" combos out of OD "A" combos in OD.

[Fame96]

Orochi can be RC'ed

[Assassinine]

B orochi is an S starter, so its likely (but not guarunteed) that A orochi will also be an S starter, so 100 meter to RC A orochi for a low mixup that will likely result in mediocre damage (for 100 meter at least) and little to no meter return is not going to be a profitable investment.

I would sooner spend that meter on 6C RC into high/low/throw mixups than consider doing low orochi rapid.

If however both versions became N starter, i could get behind the idea of rapid cancelling the A version.

[NecroTheReaper]

I dunno if its assumable that the low is a S starter as well, mostly because its while it is a DD, its still a standing low. Lookin through the frame data, almost all (if not all) standing lows have good p1 and a N starter. I wouldn't understand why this standing low should be different.

[Justice7541]

I think people are assuming it is because:

1) It's basically the same super as an S starter that looks exactly like it

2) The animation is absurdly ambiguous so it'd be dumb if it led to big damage

3) It's - on hit so it probably wasn't meant to be used as a combo tool in the first place.

[NecroTheReaper]

It seems like a more costly version of Tsubaki's 6A/6B mixup or Az 6D/3D, just less rewarding since it apparently doesnt even give oki on raw hit, so I'd hope its at least a good combo starter with an RC.

[TD]

I think people are assuming it is because:

1) It's basically the same super as an S starter that looks exactly like it

2) The animation is absurdly ambiguous so it'd be dumb if it led to big damage

3) It's - on hit so it probably wasn't meant to be used as a combo tool in the first place.

Damage gained wouldn't be dumb. Assuming it does lead into a big combo it would require 100 heat. The other version of it does not do as much damage or gain as much momentum afterwards anymore. They are both unsafe, and even though they are presumably 50/50, there is still a chance to fail and get punished.

This doesn't have anything to do with my speculation though, I just think that #2 isn't as justified as the others.

[Assassinine]

2) The animation is absurdly ambiguous so it'd be dumb if it led to big damage

Considering that you are committing 50 meter to a mixup that will leave you at disadvantage on block, i would certainly hope that it would lead to good damage on a successful hit. This is doubly true if one of the options requires RC to combo.

Compare it to 6C RC mixup, which gets more than just 2 mixup options, allows you to recoup most if not all of the meter spent on a successful mixup, and most of your mixup options leave you some follow-through options in the event they are properly defended.

[Loli Bacon]

Considering that you are committing 50 meter to a mixup that will leave you at disadvantage on block, i would certainly hope that it would lead to good damage on a successful hit. This is doubly true if one of the options requires RC to combo.

Compare it to 6C RC mixup, which gets more than just 2 mixup options, allows you to recoup most if not all of the meter spent on a successful mixup, and most of your mixup options leave you some follow-through options in the event they are properly defended.

Now you guys are completely negating the mechanics of the character and comparing them to everyone else. =P

[TD]

Now you guys are completely negating the mechanics of the character and comparing them to everyone else. =P

care to explain? I think the cause for concern is legitimate. From what little we have seen of the move, it has very little hits and absolutely cannot be followed up without heat. From what we speculate there are several things that can go wrong with the moves design. Unsafe, little damage, short starter rating, a combination of the two, or all three.

edit- there's also no chance of oki. Using this move at 50 heat, hit, block, or whiff, essentially means the end of pressure. Do you see how horrible that is for a character like him? It's almost as if they WANT it to be RC'd... The reason could be no other than for damage.

Edited February 18, 2014 by TD

[FinalDoomGuy]

care to explain? I think the cause for concern is legitimate. From what little we have seen of the move, it has very little hits and absolutely cannot be followed up without heat. From what we speculate there are several things that can go wrong with the moves design. Unsafe, little damage, short starter rating, a combination of the two, or all three.

edit- there's also no chance of oki. Using this move at 50 heat, hit, block, or whiff, essentially means the end of pressure. Do you see how horrible that is for a character like him? It's almost as if they WANT it to be RC'd... The reason could be no other than for damage.

Now, I'm not that good or knowledgeable about this game, so feel free to correct me, but I thought Terumi was really good at getting heat, it was just it was really hard for him to get a solid hit and convert that heat into damage.

Having a super that's really easy to land because of the really ambiguous animation is surely something he'd really like?

[Justice7541]

Damage gained wouldn't be dumb. Assuming it does lead into a big combo it would require 100 heat. The other version of it does not do as much damage or gain as much momentum afterwards anymore. They are both unsafe, and even though they are presumably 50/50, there is still a chance to fail and get punished.

This doesn't have anything to do with my speculation though, I just think that #2 isn't as justified as the others.

Terumi already does a load of damage. Starting with no meter in corner off a 5B, he can hit 5k+ really easily, and if he opts to sit on the meter instead, he can get 100% in two combos. Imagine if Terumi could hit you once, push you into corner, then do a safejump meaty into a true 50/50 that outright kills you if you guess wrong and there's nothing you can do about it after he's tagged you once with his 8f 5B that is +2 on block, except guess or burst.

[TD]

@fdg he is. granted.

that doesn't mean he should have a super that could potentially do more harm than good.

nevermind what he does before the 50/50. this is assuming hes doing low orochi at 50 or 100 heat.

l must stress again that besides my earlier points about what all of us saw, the rest is speculation.

pros are pretty much being a 50/50, doing (?) damage.

cons are giving up momentum -regardless- of hit/block/whiff (insanely horrid), with potential points (if its older brother is anything to go by) being unsafe, possibly low damage, and possibly no chance to improve damage.

that's a lot of cons. especially if any of them are combined together, in particular, no momentum+ no real damage. why even do it.

even if its horrible it could be relegated to round-end mixup status. l just don't see the point though. as l mentioned, all arrows seem to point to RCing the move, and one has to wonder why that would be. for safety, only? its possible but...

[Loli Bacon]

care to explain? I think the cause for concern is legitimate. From what little we have seen of the move, it has very little hits and absolutely cannot be followed up without heat. From what we speculate there are several things that can go wrong with the moves design. Unsafe, little damage, short starter rating, a combination of the two, or all three.

edit- there's also no chance of oki. Using this move at 50 heat, hit, block, or whiff, essentially means the end of pressure. Do you see how horrible that is for a character like him? It's almost as if they WANT it to be RC'd... The reason could be no other than for damage.

Considering that it's Terumi, the idea that he has an ambiguous mixup that gives him anything other than guaranteed damage upon landing it (can't be bursted) is absurd. He already has extremely high damage off proper confirms and builds meter like nobody's business when he lands a hit that requiring 50 meter to have an ambiguous mixup, and then requiring another 50 meter to make it safe if it's properly guessed isn't an issue. If it hits and you don't get damage or oki off it without another 50 meter? That sounds like what they intend, given the character. You SHOULD spend 100 meter to land that mixup and to get additional damage. Think of his character design and how he's meant to play. If he got free damage and oki off 50 meter, or if he could pressure freely afterward, that's how we get characters like CS1 Litchi. You should be glad that it isn't unsafe, rather that it's just - on block.

Any other character, I'd say the super is trash because no one builds 50 meter by the time they do their first basic bnb.

EDIT: Consider it like Super > RC on block > j.2D/2B/command throw mixups.

Damage is damage. Sounds like May 5D/5[D].

Edited February 18, 2014 by Loli Bacon

[NecroTheReaper]

I thought the purpose of discussing this was about it being an S starter with unknown damage. Regardless of how the mixup should be to compliment Terumi's heat gain, if he blows 100 heat on a move with an S starter, unless it has a base damage of 3k or more, he'd get at most 15-30 heat back (heat gain CD) and negligible damage/oki.

[TD]

l dunno. l read the last few post but l still feel we'll have to agree to disagree.

because the move hasn't been properly introduced yet, none of us know exactly how it'll turn out. we don't even know if it's a 50/50. just a low version. it could be a bit slower, or faster.

l still have a few things l wanted to say, but l don't think the timing iss appropriate at the moment.

[Angel-tastic]

Maybe Terumi will be able to follow up on the 50/50 super in the corner or something. That way he could do some some oki, and if the opponent blocks it all, do the 50/50 super and if it hits get a combo + more heat from that to do it again. That seems like it would be pretty legit, and since it's only - on block and not punishable (presumably anyway), all that happens if the opponent blocks it is that they get out of the corner, but that's what happens anyway when they block your mix-up correctly.

[bakahyl]

We don't know yet if the new Orochi is even a S starter like the old version. If it is a N starter then a RC combo would be worth it seeing Terumi's meter gain