NecroTheReaper Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Thank you Baka, finally someone agreed with me :D
TD Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Maybe Terumi will be able to follow up on the 50/50 super in the corner or something. That way he could do some some oki, and if the opponent blocks it all, do the 50/50 super and if it hits get a combo + more heat from that to do it again. That seems like it would be pretty legit, and since it's only - on block and not punishable (presumably anyway), all that happens if the opponent blocks it is that they get out of the corner, but that's what happens anyway when they block your mix-up correctly. he cannot due to the bow he does at the end. you'd have to RC for oki. they seem to be able to roll out/quick rise 100% free otherwise, evidenced by current OD orochi and 100 meter fuuenjin
Assassinine Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 If we are banking 50 meter on a 1-shot mixup with -no options on block, negative on block -that cant be followed up midscreen, with the requirement to RC to followup the low version -allows your opponent to roll out of the corner if you dont RC the low version i dont think its too much to ask for it to actually give good reward on hit. If Orochi 50/50 is not a rewarding mixup, then there is no reason to use it over 6C RC mixup. 6C RC is much more flexible, with more mixup options, and if your mixup is defended you still have control, especially with the buff to 6B which will speed up his throw setups and make his pressure resets tighter. Currently Terumi can get 3750 damage from raw overhead orochi in the corner and recoup 26 meter while keeping oki, this is actually respectable and i have no complaints. My worry is that the low version cant be followed up without rapid, and because of the stupid bow he does the opponent can roll past you before you recover, which means if you land a low mixup you just put yourself in the corner
mAc Chaos Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 its when you make them block 6c with hakumen then rc and 3c when they think they can punish
Assassinine Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 6C RC mixup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA65-JnC4a0
Raiza57 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Correct me if im wrong, but I thought they gave terumi the ability to cancel DD's>DD's with this new mechanic added to him if an opponent blocks wouldnt they still be in danger if he has 100 heat? I dont know the names of his attacks, but he received a lot of gattling buff options for his specials and DD's. Maybe he can cancel the low Orochi into his dash super? Into a decent 6D>236d combo for the 20ish meter gain. ~Shiro Edited February 19, 2014 by Raiza57
Errol Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 that's what I thought. just wanted to make sure it wasn't something like doing it after the 3rd hit. that is good stuff though, hard to block a 19 frame overhead.
bakahyl Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I haven't seen any terumi use the 6c rapid mixup, it's like Ragna going for a dp after a blocked hell's fang
Raiza57 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I meant 6D>236D combo finisher after the low orochi>Dash super>filler>6D>236D
Errol Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I haven't seen any terumi use the 6c rapid mixup, it's like Ragna going for a dp after a blocked hell's fang no it isn't?
bakahyl Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 no it isn't? i was typing my last comment before the reply came with the video. And i got distracted while playing a match online before i finalized my post. It's indeed an interesting gimmick
NecroTheReaper Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 HF>ID is a frametrap, not 50/50 mixup. Even if he RC's, chances are he has to use a falling arial to keep you in blockstun. And meter is precious for anyone not namex Hakumen or Terumi.
bakahyl Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I thought that the 6c RC would like that Ragna frametrap bc Terumi's 6c is normally just as unsafe edit: it's similar to tager's Magnatech wheel RC gimmicks Edited February 19, 2014 by bakahyl
NecroTheReaper Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I will agree with that. Always funny though when they go for said gimmicks and you CA lol. Honestly, I wish the jump cancel window on 5C was a bit bigger, not for mixup, but for combos
Justice7541 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I personally think 5C RC mixup is a lot harder to react to but that's just me. Either way thought they're not unseeable mixups, unlike this super which as far as anyone can tell from the two-second clip we've been given, looks pretty much exactly the same, making a true 50/50.
Assassinine Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Well the thing is 5C RC mixups require you to plan ahead, while 6C RC mixups can be used as a backup plan if your original mixup plan didnt work and you are getting pushed out. 6C can also just be thrown out in neutral with meter, if it hits you rapid and get 3k midscreen and recover half the meter spent, if it counter-hits you OD and get 6k+. On block you can RC and apply 3 way mixup. EDIT: to clarify, i compare orochi mixup to 6C mixup simply because they are both available from long range attacks, 5C RC mixup beats them both. Theres no doubt that orochi will be a forced 50/50 guess. Most of the problem stems from the fact that with the stupid bow animation that ASW is so fond of, you are essentially paying 50 meter to put yourself in the corner with the low version. If you get hit by the high version in the corner, you take 3750 damage, Terumi gets half his meter back, and corner oki. If you get hit by the low version, you will likely take around ~2500 damage, and Terumi politely allows you to roll past him because hes such a gentleman. If you autoblock high at the flash, every outcome is favorable in some way, by either blocking a high attempt, getting hit low and escaping the corner, or forcing Terumi to blow 100 meter to RC to prevent you from rolling out, and getting what is likely going to be high-3000s for damage, on a 100 meter investment. Hell, if you are cornered and Terumi uses orochi mixup without 100 meter to RC, you can simply block high knowing that if he hits you with the low you escape the corner for free. Midscreen high orochi is looking like it will give Terumi time to sprint up to his opponent, while low orochi will be bowing as they tech, resetting to neutral, so autoblocking high is the best option in any scenario where getting hit by the low wont outright kill you. The only way this wont be the case is if low orochi hits disgustingly hard to make people fear it. Edited February 19, 2014 by Assassinine
NecroTheReaper Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Be a great mixup tool lol a combo-able high into oki, or an uncomboable, no oki low that gives 4.5k raw
Dark Ranger88 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Be a great mixup tool lol a combo-able high into oki, or an uncomboable, no oki low that gives 4.5k raw 4.5K raw!? Hells naw son. 3k - 3.8k would be reasonable to good, especially if you do it while your opponent is in blockstun. Unreactable, reversal safe mixup into 4.5k would be borderline OP (although Tager does have something like that with 720 kinda, but he's a special case). Also I understand that you weren't being super serial Necro Could you imagine what it would be like if both of these supers were comboable in the corner? DD mixup > combo to get 50 heat into oki > DD mixup...
Assassinine Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Heat cooldown prevents that Considering high orochi is an S starter, low orochi would also be an S starter if it was combo-able. You can make back 26 meter without losing oki from high orochi, in my experience. Knowing Arcsys, low orochi is probably going to be an S starter anyway
Narroo Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 It's possible that it's not meant to be an "anytime staple," but rather a hail-mary finisher. If you don't use the move often, it would be rather difficult to block. It could be meant for use when the opponent is almost dead- you can surprise them with a true 50/50 that kills them flat out if they loose.
Loli Bacon Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 It's possible that it's not meant to be an "anytime staple," but rather a hail-mary finisher. If you don't use the move often, it would be rather difficult to block. It could be meant for use when the opponent is almost dead- you can surprise them with a true 50/50 that kills them flat out if they loose. So loose. But yeah, you should be happy that you have a true 50/50 with as high as damage as that for only 50 meter on a character who builds that in half a combo.
SoWL Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 You know, Bullet also has a 50/50 mix-up with her 6D/2D, and it can also deal lots of damage for no meter, but I don't see her using it that often. And hers is actually safe on block (and hit), comes with a gap closer and punishes backdashes. So yeah, I can understand the Terumi players being unsatisfied with this new option.
Loli Bacon Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 You know, Bullet also has a 50/50 mix-up with her 6D/2D, and it can also deal lots of damage for no meter, but I don't see her using it that often. And hers is actually safe on block (and hit), comes with a gap closer and punishes backdashes. So yeah, I can understand the Terumi players being unsatisfied with this new option. Her 50/50 isn't ambiguous. This new option looks much more ambiguous.
NecroTheReaper Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Now lets watch it have a ridiculously easy to notice sound cue for if its high or low xD
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