NecroTheReaper Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 But thats when they require IBing to play defensively, which in a game with as much netplay as this, is kinda unreasonable. Offline its a different story, unless your monitor/tv has delay, its all your own ability. That's why I had brought up having a larger IB frame buffer for netplay exclusively.
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 What I wish they'd do is fix heat gain on the defensive side. I can go from 100% to 10% and not even reach 40 heat. So if a high mixup character like Valk hits me, the only thing I can do is die? Die, burst, block mash, IB>CA. There are a few options. None as good as a DP character's. I've discovered blocking isn't that bad at all, with the exception of getting timed out by a Litchi I forgot to counter assault, I find that blocking the full 20 seconds of a character's mix-up can be a cathartic and worthwhile use of time. You get a steady gain in meter and if they Rapid to continue their string or run on any sort of drive gauge, those resources too can be drained. Also when your opponent exhausts their encyclopedia of tricks to no avail, it kinda shakes them, especially when you turn it around with a jab into oki. The only problem you run into is characters like Kokonoe and Amane who punish even the best blocking with unavoidable damages. (I need a toutorial of how to exit various BH set-ups and a lengthy talk on how to beat up Amane.) The defensive side is pretty mighty just with the power of basic blocking. So long as a character's offensive powers don't overstep their bounds into being flatly unbeatable or truely unblockable (IE black hole situations for many cast members, Clap loop situations, airtight blockstrings that run the timer for more than 8 seconds) I see no big problem with offense. What I'm trying to say here is, there should always be a better alternative to putting down the controller and taking it. On the defensive side, we've got safe DPs, Koko's 6A, Noel's 4D (SWD showed me the truth called despair here.) and quite a few other potent tools. Relius' defense just happens to be his offense, for every second we're attacking them, they aren't attacking us.
Syklone Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 you could block. heatgain from taking damage is entirely based on how much damage you take. you will get 40% before dying. You'll get more if you manage to land any hits, or block/ib any stuff, etc. Yeah it sounds like he wants an ultra combo lol
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 But thats when they require IBing to play defensively, which in a game with as much netplay as this, is kinda unreasonable. Offline its a different story, unless your monitor/tv has delay, its all your own ability. That's why I had brought up having a larger IB frame buffer for netplay exclusively. OBJECTION! I'd like to present the Kagura player Herodyne. He played online against me and my walmart tier net and managed to instant block 99% of all of my moves, which if you know relius pressure like I do, you should find commendable. It was at that point when I decided to face the music and learn to IB in netplay even through lagspikes. (I mean, with enough practice I could combo and even tiger knee consistently through lag, so why not IBs?)
D.R.F. Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 OBJECTION! I'd like to present the Kagura player Herodyne. He played online against me and my walmart tier net and managed to instant block 99% of all of my moves, which if you know relius pressure like I do, you should find commendable. It was at that point when I decided to face the music and learn to IB in netplay even through lagspikes. (I mean, with enough practice I could combo and even tiger knee consistently through lag, so why not IBs?) Heeeell naa to larger instant-block window. Its an instant-block, not a kinda instant-block. No need to change it because of NETPLAY of all things. And seriously you shouldnt gain so much heat for playing BAD. Going from 100-10 health like that probably means you shouldnt even win that round-.-. Im all for a little change in system mechanics (tbh I like cp's mechanics how they are) but I ESPECIALLY do not want to see people being rewarded because they play like shit. Maybe if they like yops thats annoying. But if they win nothing else matters. Barrier is fine, please team blue buff characters that need it. But with these loketests we know thats not gonna happen:D
NecroTheReaper Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Because we all know no characters in BB have a vortex -sarcasm-. But I suppose that if its only against characters that have a vortex, its less of an issue so I'll stop myself.
StylisH Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Everytime the loketest gets mentioned, more and more people make asses of themselves with wild speculation. It's kind of sad.
Angry Guy of DE Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 A good update is where characters with good points have some faults corrected so it isn't holding a character back without taking away what makes them unique. On the flip side, a character with seemingly no flaws can and should have something adjusted so they aren't seen as just a plain better version of another character when you look at them. Relius is a great example since Ignis pressure is something that no other character can imitate. The gauge usage right now allows extended pressure or combos but keeping an eye on the gauge is important since without Ignis Relius's weaknesses in defense are obvious (and able to be taken advantage of by the other player) if the Relius player makes that mistake.
Zouf Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Relius is to me the most balanced character in the game. He's very well rounded and should only be tweaked here and there. I like to fight against him at least.
Stellarcircle5 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Relius is to me the most balanced character in the game. He's very well rounded and should only be tweaked here and there. I like to fight against him at least. I agree. I hold him as the standard of how strong I believe a character should be. He has notable and very visible strengths, but also has very obvious weaknesses. I would appreciate that fact so much if I played him. Solid A tiers ftw.
Stellarcircle5 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Will Bullet finally be viable in 2.0? As of now, she ends her combos in heat 1 even after spending heat 2. She will be able to ride momentum way better, though zoning will still make her super sad.
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Heeeell naa to larger instant-block window. Its an instant-block, not a kinda instant-block. No need to change it because of NETPLAY of all things. And seriously you shouldnt gain so much heat for playing BAD. Going from 100-10 health like that probably means you shouldnt even win that round-.-. Im all for a little change in system mechanics (tbh I like cp's mechanics how they are) but I ESPECIALLY do not want to see people being rewarded because they play like shit. Maybe if they like yops thats annoying. But if they win nothing else matters. Barrier is fine, please team blue buff characters that need it. But with these loketests we know thats not gonna happen:D I assume you didn't mean to quote me prior to this?
D.R.F. Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 ... whoops my bad not at all. I agree with most was in your response, as mine was merely an outburst against simplification of system mechanics. I hate the idea of being outstandingly rewarded because you are playing bad. As in bad I mean you aren't putting up a strong fight
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 One thing I would like changed is guard bonus. There's quite a few times where you have to stay defensive for 5+ seconds, but because there's "gaps" in the opponents offense you don't get paid. That's gaps in quotation marks because if you do anything during that time, they'll snap you like a twig. I don't know how they should change it, but it needs some tweaks if you ask me. Also if guard bonus gets activated (The way it is now) the opponent should stop getting heat, or the timer should halt or something extra to not make it super worthwhile.
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Those are called frame traps. :V Yeah, the words weren't coming to me. Go figure since I play Mr. frametraps himself. While we're on the subject, mAc you and I should do battle at your earliest convenience.
NecroTheReaper Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Guard bonus does sound like quite the useless mechanic. The only characters I can think of that are capable of making gapless pressure more than once per blockstring are Relius and Rachel. Relius would have to give up mixup in exchange for gapless pressure, plus a lot of doll meter, so its not really gonna happen from him. I don't think Rachel is able to keep up her gapless high-low stuff running long enough for guard bonus to even kick in since its like 5 seconds with NO gaps. The only way I could force the AI to get guard bonus in Ex was doing Tao 5B>j.A>j.2B>j.C loop on a standing, blocking bot. Its a cool defense mechanic, but so few characters don't even have the means to cause it to happen.
D.R.F. Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Gapless pressure isnt even that useful. They cant mash so you cant body them for mashing
NecroTheReaper Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Yeah. In short my post was saying its a useless mechanic with a cool outcome. Gapless pressure does kill people who'd rather DP though.
mAc Chaos Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 The point of guard bonus isn't to punish frame traps and reward blocking. It's more of a last resort to stop infinite blockstring glitches that might make their way into the game. If everything is going as it should then it shouldn't show up to begin with.
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 The point of guard bonus isn't to punish frame traps and reward blocking. It's more of a last resort to stop infinite blockstring glitches that might make their way into the game. If everything is going as it should then it shouldn't show up to begin with. How do you figure? didn't do much to 1.0 Koko's cycling pressure.
Blackwing55 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 There was one time when guard bonus activated for me. Forget which character but it wasn't Kokonoe.
Myoro Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 For me the only time was during a Nu's OD>236236Dx2>run-up and mix-up.
Surf Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Izayoi is able to activate guard bonus on the opponent with Trans-AM. As mAc said it's there to stop (or try to stop) infinite gapless blockstrings that may occur. Also did I actually see Myoro say blocking isn't that bad at all to do on the other page. Holy shit man. IB is one of the best ways to gain meter while not being on the offense. The meter gain isn't as great as earlier iterations but it's still a sizable amount. Whenever I play I see almost no one IB'ing reliably/consistently. Barrier is being held like they're souls depend on it and then they burst on block since they don't have any meter because they never IB'd or got a hit in. Want more meter gain on your defense? Learn to IB. Especially for the character who rely on counter assault to get the opponent off of them, or reversals that require meter
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