Daedron Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 This is mostly because I am pinned for half the rounds I fight online due to Tsubaki and I rarely ever get momentum This should only be true for a few select matchups ;p And pretty much with Airk said, against new players I still use all my options cause spamming one thing over and over isn't fun for me either. Now if it's a tourney setting, then that's different. Then you take the win no matter what.
chzchan Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I think the rule of thumb is "As long as the person is familiar with the game, don't feel bad." These people are expected to know how the game works and how to figure out how to beat things, even if that means "Go to training mode later and figured it out." On the other hand, if it's someone who's all "I've never played a fighting game before!" or even "Yeah, I've played some Marvel and whatever - this looks cool but I've never played it" then IMHO this is the LAST thing you want to do, because you want them to leave feeling good about the game, even if you beat them, and just doing the same thing over and over to someone like that is going to make them unhappy and not want to play in the future. I'll keep the above in mind. I had the contents of the second paragraph in mind the entire time, though. If I could tell they had never played before I would intentionally drop combos, not use my DP, and not use projectiles. I would still usually let myself win, but I would make sure it is close and I would shake their hand at the end of the match and add on a "good fight man" with a smile on my face like I usually do in any offline match with a stranger. This should only be true for a few select matchups ;p And pretty much with Airk said, against new players I still use all my options cause spamming one thing over and over isn't fun for me either. Now if it's a tourney setting, then that's different. Then you take the win no matter what. It is pretty true if the opponents knows what they are doing and does a lot of that perfectly spaced stagger pressure and is aware of my DP. I should go to more tourneys even though I am terrible. See the surprise did not come from the fights with the people who were completely new to the game, they were with the people who really knew what they were doing but did not know Tsubaki at all. If I won a round after using the same thing a few times in a row I would take the time to explain what they could do to counter it if they seemed frustrated in an attempt to make them not nearly as salty, but that did not change what they did in the round after that.
Loryuo Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 how tight is the window for The IAD input on 2C©? I was messing around with it for the past few days, and it seemed like sometimes I wouldn't even get the IAD to come out and would just get the 7 jump. I realized that when doing 2C© I don't need to hold the stick down which makes it more lenient, but still can't get the timing after the second C hits just right.
chzchan Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 It is pretty tight, but it depends on what you are doing it out of. Is this a FC or are you just doing it out of 214B/D?
Loryuo Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 i'm doing it out of 214 B/D. It's funny cause off a fatal 3CC, i get it almost all the time.
zaeris Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Well to me the iad isn't the issue because once you get the perfect height the jcc part is quite easy with a slight link on landing. The main issue is hitting them correctly with 2cc, some combos adjust this height automatically by hitting them with 5c or 2c at the lowest falling point. Delay 2cc after 5c or naked 2cc usually helps adjust the height for perfect iAd. If you can land the perfect 2cc the iAd part is quite easy. Final note FC does make combo easier, it adds on 3+ frames advantage on every hit or something I should wiki that later. I guess if you can record a vid it might be easy to see the problem but I find iAd quite lax with timing if you have he perfect setting height ectera
BatousaiJ Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 IAD Combos off 3CC FC is really liberal on the timing so that's probably not the best way to practice the IAD stuff. 214D is a good starter to practice on since you learn when to press 5C > 2CC along with the little delay between the two hits in 2CC as well as IAD which will be the standard difficulty. As for getting the IAD consistent, the trick I use is to hold 9 as I'm landing the second 2CC hit and then buffering 66 air dash before I'm even in the air. Since you're buffering the motion and holding the jump, it should come out every time once you get the fairly liberal timing down. If they're really high in the air and immediate IAD won't work well, you can adjust by holing either 7 or 8 to compensate for the timing.
Airk Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Oooh; That's an interesting tactic BatousaiJ; I'm going to have to try that one, because I've been grinding that combo for weeks now and I still only hit it about 1/3rd of the time (so many fail points! Must hit 5C low enough! Must delay 2CC just enough! Must actually IAD. Must delay the second IAD hit just a little. x.x) and it seems like it's pretty crucial.
TeeJay Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 IAD Combos off 3CC FC is really liberal on the timing so that's probably not the best way to practice the IAD stuff. 214D is a good starter to practice on since you learn when to press 5C > 2CC along with the little delay between the two hits in 2CC as well as IAD which will be the standard difficulty. As for getting the IAD consistent, the trick I use is to hold 9 as I'm landing the second 2CC hit and then buffering 66 air dash before I'm even in the air. Since you're buffering the motion and holding the jump, it should come out every time once you get the fairly liberal timing down. If they're really high in the air and immediate IAD won't work well, you can adjust by holing either 7 or 8 to compensate for the timing. What.........? The IAD is the only reason why I don't use the combo because I can't even do that consistently. I've done the challenge though. In Extend, I never did the combo once. I will try that.
zaeris Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 the IAD doesn't have much application these day, it use to be awesome in bbcs2 with mid screen dp whiff combo off a 5b starter. anyway, where IAD is applicable or needed because I don't see another other way to optimised the damage 2c AA 6b CH->5a 2cc>IAD jc CH land 5a/b/c >2cc>IAD random 236d CH does people use 214b? it must be me finding that option terrible, but 214d does happen sometimes with 236c>214d ghetto. but naked 214/b/d is a terrible piece of BS I have ever seen, how the move has fallen since cs2
Loryuo Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 IAD combos aren't that important nowdays? in any case i'm gonna try out the tips given and see if that makes it better or not. I just want to make sure i can atleast have it as an option should the time occur.
zaeris Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 for some easy one, as BatousaiJ said you can use it with 214D to practice, however you can just skip 5c entirely and almost mash 2cc and just straight into IAD, not using 5c does make the timing issue of 2cc non-existent however there are a few character specific where 5c is needed, jin? otherwise you can do something like 6cc 236d dash 2cc IAD, I guess if you want to push your technical skills try getting 2 reps off 214d =)
Airk Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 Uh, isn't 214D -> IAD still an excellent way to add damage and carry to a 6A hit? And 6a FC uses IAD as well....
zaeris Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 Uh, isn't 214D -> IAD still an excellent way to add damage and carry to a 6A hit? And 6a FC uses IAD as well.... well I find 214D terrible with its lost of H invul attributed, most move has more than one attributed, and it used to AA and beat everything in the sky now its restricted to ground base attack but even so most ground base attack has more than one attribute like B+H or F+B attribute, its quite situation in beating move and its too slow to use on reaction, it is rather yolo and also -ve enough on block to be near punishable with IB. I'm just discount its frequency, sure it can happen once in a blue moon and you kinda need to prepare yourself to it but at the same time the mid screen and corner combo doesn't emphasis the IAD as much. in general if you do land 214d yeah sure, the IAD is the better non meter/stock path, but I find myself not even using 214d but when I do use it is part of 236c block> 214d but people can react and mash 2a and punish even 236c > 22d is a better frame trap that beats 2a general mid screen combo 5b ectera 623c j214a whiff 3 routes -> dash 5a/5c 2c> 236b/c>214b>22b -> 5b jump cancel jbjcjc jd jb djb jc >j214a/b/c -> 5c 2c 236d> 6c jd jc 5c 2c 236b>214b>22b mix up route -> 623c j214a IAD jc/throw to catch tech recovery all of my corner routes are x>x>x>22d 6c ct 5c 2cc 236c ectera or x.x.x> 22d 6c jd jc 5c 2c ectera or x>x>x> 22d 6cc 236c 214b 22b 5c 2cc tk236a I guess if you want to add IAd it be 22d 5c 2cc IAD but overall its doesnt add much more to what you already have. as for 6a, I don't think I can consistently count on it for FC as such, and by the time I realize its FC i'm already mashing 6a 5cc 22d or something lol. well in my opinion you kinda need to learn it but if you don't, I don't think you be losing much, guess I've been doing IAD combo since cs2 to CP so its not a difficult concept to me, guess I will stay out of this one then,
chzchan Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 As for getting the IAD consistent, the trick I use is to hold 9 as I'm landing the second 2CC hit and then buffering 66 air dash before I'm even in the air. That is genius man. I have been buffering a vertical half circle into a forward quarter circle (23698 > 236) while the second hit of 2CC is happening and it has been pretty hard on my hands so I fumble the IAD all the time. My IAD method does get me the neat looking super jump afterimages, but damn have I been missing out.
Airk Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 well I find 214D terrible with its lost of H invul attributed, most move has more than one attributed, and it used to AA and beat everything in the sky now its restricted to ground base attack but even so most ground base attack has more than one attribute like B+H or F+B attribute, its quite situation in beating move and its too slow to use on reaction, it is rather yolo and also -ve enough on block to be near punishable with IB. I'm just discount its frequency, sure it can happen once in a blue moon and you kinda need to prepare yourself to it but at the same time the mid screen and corner combo doesn't emphasis the IAD as much. I guess if you want to add IAd it be 22d 5c 2cc IAD but overall its doesnt add much more to what you already have. as for 6a, I don't think I can consistently count on it for FC as such, and by the time I realize its FC i'm already mashing 6a 5cc 22d or something lol. well in my opinion you kinda need to learn it but if you don't, I don't think you be losing much, guess I've been doing IAD combo since cs2 to CP so its not a difficult concept to me, guess I will stay out of this one then, Uh; You missed my point entirely. First: A) Most moves most certainly do NOT have more than one attribute. In fact, they changed pretty much every move that used to have more than one attribute to only have one. The only exceptions I can easily find are projectiles, which have like, all attributes. B) Yes, the loss of head invuln on this move still hurts, but that's because it no longer beats jump attacks, not because things have multiple attributes. C) I was talking about the 6A > 5CC > 6B > 214D > IAD combo path, not using it raw D) How hard is it REALLY to confirm 6A > 5CC > 6CC instead of 6A > 5CC > Something else? My hitconfirms are CRAP and even I can do this one. E) If you're gonna use 3C pretty much at all, you need to have IAD combos. It's pretty crucial, IMHO. And it's also HUGELY different timing from what it was in CS2/Extend, so it kinda sucks like that.
BatousaiJ Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 214D routes aren't as important as they used to be since we lost our 5C > 2C > 214D route. We could even do 5A > 5C > 2C > 214D before into a full IAD combo before but not any more. 214D still has head invul against attacks that aren't jump attacks so it's more or less unchanged. You really shouldn't be trying to anti-air with that move in the first place due to how it moves you forward. Also, you can use the 236A > 214D to go full screen to chase people down. Just remember you aren't immune to projectiles and you'll need 46D > 236D to crush through projectiles. The IAD combos are important for corner carry, positional advantage and untechable free charge time. They're not quite as essential as lets say... CS2 or something but they're still very much cookie cutter stuff if you want to play Tsu with a decent level of efficiency. She doesn't get a lot of damage or time to get some free charge in so if you find yourself not taking advantage of those opportunities, your chances to win lowers significantly. I was messing around and I'm so used to doing IAD combos at this point so I don't even think about how I'm really doing them anymore, it seems I tend to hold 8 and then buffer 66 dash instead of 9 and it seems to work better so try that instead if you're having issues with 9.
zaeris Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 I will Try to be reasonable but at least for me I don't think it about but iAd comes as second nature to me during my cs2 era it's slightly different in timing but feels the same. I don't know if it's right to continue since if we are talking about it I feel like you need to know it but it doesn't have much important as did. A) well are you going to yolo it then because I feels it's not that great of a move even if some characters 5c or 5b are just b, it doesn't seem reliable as a counter. B) Guess I will check wiki later C) well that 6a combo, well youre free to use that combo although I think dp whiff in that string achieve the same thing without using stock and damage wise doesn't increase by a lot adding 214d. D) how hard is it for me? Very because I rarely or never get fc off it, it would help if fch occur to me more often like 1 out of 10 Matches. It's just so rare I forget it exist. And when I do remember it's too late, I'm not saying it's hard or not just it so rarely happens my mind blanks out that I can go that path. I wish people mash with bad buttons more lol 5c or delay 5a. But when they do mash I am always hit out of it or they didn't block high from 6a, if not people do block 6a. Overall it is the same concept with slight changes I'm not going to deny it, the slight difference is only slight to me but I don't have issues with it. Er, well I still don't think it's crucial, it helps yes and doing that combo path if I need to I can but at the same time even with basic 236b ectera ground combo I'm fine with that also. I guess the new changes to j214a kinda makes it obsolete, it does function differently and gives little to no charge time but it does a Great job of corner carry almost 2/3 screens away. The only function I still find myself using iAd is 2c aa, otherwise going 236d air hit into 6c jd jc land 5c into ground ender is a better corner carry if I had to use stock. I think in General iAd is kinda obsolete save for a few ch starters that requires iAd for max non stock damage. And if you had stock there are better option. Guess I will try some 214d maybe it might change my mind lol.
Loryuo Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 well after doing what Batousai said about holding 9 as I'm landing the second 2CC hit and then buffering 66 air dash before I'm even in the air, i'm getting it almost 100% now so that little advice definitely helped me out! Thanks a lot!
TeeJay Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Oops post in the wrong thread: How do you keep furious rushdown characters with much bigger hit boxes away? Ragna 5B/5c, Jin 5C, Mu 5C. If I can get orbs going, I can neutral around that but I feel like I'm screwed if I can't. Most of the time in neutral I feel like I'm playing keep away, diving to screen swap, etc. until I can space a perfect 2C anti-air or catch them where I can make contact for free. Perhaps, I'm just not dealing well with gaining respect or not getting disrespected in nuetral. Should i just stand at 22X range for corner oki to keep people from rolling out of the corner? i know I can jab or 2b them but they can also DP. I've been getting away with some occasional naked j.236 A empty jump/late airdash setups in the corner which people can roll under. I'm gonna watch some Konan/Kuresu and friends vids. I think I'm missing some small nugget of Tsubaki. Seeing Airk play has been fun. On another note, I have realized that I've probably been preemptively over-thinking the game rather than just thinking about alternate options and adaptations.
chzchan Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I'm gonna watch some Konan/Kuresu and friends vids. I think I'm missing some small nugget of Tsubaki. Seeing Airk play has been fun. A lot of what they have is just pure respect. I also spend most of my games just flying around the screen until my opponent gets frustrated so I can take advantage of their openings if they are rushdown characters. I know it is frustrating, but Tsubaki is really really not scary, so most people have nothing to fear.
Airk Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Yeah, my "strategy" is to camp the hell out of most characters. Sometimes it works out, sometimes they manage a roll or something and then I lose. :P For corner oki, do practice the j.236A corner oki - it's not great, but it does keep your opponent from rolling out. In terms of fighting characters with big space controlling normals, a forward jump from just outside the range of their preferred normal can hop over it and give you a CH j.C if they pushed the button there. This requires pretty good spacing though. Also, according to the Jin matchup thread, 3C stuffs his 5C, but I haven't tested that.
Monarch Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 What's the input for kara command grab? The video linking it won't work anymore.
chzchan Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I forgot what the term was but I think it is plink or plank or plonk or something. You start up a 6C, but immediately hit B which makes you move slightly forward thanks to the step from 6C while still grabbing. You will know when you do it right because Tsubaki will say the thing she usually says when she uses 6C, and then immediately stop.
zaeris Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I forgot what the term was but I think it is plink or plank or plonk or something. You start up a 6C, but immediately hit B which makes you move slightly forward thanks to the step from 6C while still grabbing. You will know when you do it right because Tsubaki will say the thing she usually says when she uses 6C, and then immediately stop. my friend said there was a part about not being able to kara cancel from the Loketest something... I need to find that tweet reference again to look at it properly.
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