[Xrd] Potemkin Gameplay Discussion

[Flick]

After watching alot of FAB Xrd matches, is it safe to say that 6K is safe on block? 

Seems no - never saw a raw 6K. But 6K>HFB is + on block

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

6K itself is not safe but you can cancel it to Hammerbreak and then it's what, +4 on block or so?

Edit: Beaten, didn't even see there was another page :I

[Arawan]

I will try to summarize the changes Pot got in Xrd. (copying the stuff in the thread) @ Thread editor: Could you maybe add this to the starting post to give new Potemkin players a quick breakdown without forcing them to dig through 6 pages? (page count will probably explode when Xrd is released)

-his appearance has changed (play old Pot for 4.99 anyone?)

-he is somewhat like in #R

-2s lost the vakuum effect

-has a new shoulder tackle move that causes wallsplat on hit (replaced his 6k)

-6k seems to be very good, allowing for nice corner combos

-Potemkin Buster does less damage

-PB *can* be followed up in the corner meterlessly, but the timing is very tight.

-j.S floats like any other air hit on counter hit, and on grounded counter hit causes a stagger.

-6P is a good anti-air in that it has a very low hurtbox and very good hitbox, but cannot be gatlinged or jump canceled. You need a counter hit to combo off of it easily.

-2D isn't special cancelable.

-F.D.B. is faster.

-Heat Knuckle blows away whether you Extend or not. Always Extend at midscreen. In the corner you may be able to combo off of a regular Heat Knuckle.

-5P whiffs crouchers, but 2P is faster and cancels into itself again (and not a low).

-No standing overhead (except 5D of course).

-Judge Gauntlet is also are gone,

-got new moves; trishula, a fire attack.. It is invincible, counts as a projectile itself and removes projectiles it hits and puts him into a low profile. I.C.P.M, where he flies with a jetpack in an arc to the ground, can probably combo out of slide head, does OTG damage

-potemkin buster has a YRC point on whiff

-has a 25% meter airdash

-Counterhit Giganter -> 6H seems to basically instantly stun someone

-Potemkin Buster can be followed up with 2K>f.s>Heat in corner, at least on Faust

-C.s 2S 6K Heat Knuckle works on Ky, and probably others, since Ky is normal weight

-Giganter overdrive deals more damage and is less situational

-you should be able to do j.hs ->f.s->heat knuckle+heat extend->Heavenly from mid screen (dunno if you have to YRC after heat extend)

If I forgot something important, I will add it later. Would appreciate if you would tell me. .

Sorry for spelling/grammar mistakes. I should do something better at 3am than writing out information for a game I´ll probably never play.

[destruction_adv]

 

-Potemkin´s no more the protector of Zeppian skies. (sorry, had to make this joke one day, for those, wo don´t get it, Pot lost his Heavenly Potemkin Buster overdrive)

 

Ummm, he still has heavenly, it's his cinematic super isn't it?

[D.R.F.]

Hes probably talking about it being nerfed indirectly. Pot definitely still has heavenly buster. Not ex buster though

[Flick]

 

-Potemkin´s no more the protector of Zeppian skies. (sorry, had to make this joke one day, for those, wo don´t get it, Pot lost his Heavenly Potemkin Buster overdrive)

 

 

He still has it bro. So Zeppian's sky is still protected 

[Arawan]

Haha, that's embarrassing. Will fix that later. Seen some fab gameplay where he didn't perform his Heavenly, so I thought it was gone.

Someone knows if he keeps his aerial Potemkin Buster? If yes, #potemkinbustour.

Edit: Fixed it. Tell me if there's more that I missed.

[Red Star]

-Heat Knuckle blows away whether you Extend or not. Always Extend at midscreen. In the corner you may be able to combo off of a regular Heat Knuckle.

-you should be able to do j.hs ->f.s->heat knuckle+heat extend->Heavenly from mid screen (dunno if you have to YRC after heat extend)

 

I have always seen Potemkins Extend in corner, so I don't think you can combo off of regular heat in corner. I don't think you can Heavenly after Extend either. Just watching matches the opponents seem to recover from Extend around the same time Pot does and you can't YRC in the middle of combos. Also extend sends them way too far away for Heavenly to hit mid screen. Maybe you can catch their air tech in the corner after an extend, but the air tech looks pretty low, not sure if even that works.

[D.R.F.]

Extend is only comboable off of red cancel, simply because potemkin is in too much recovery to follow up.

In the corner though, it usually leads to a hard knockdown. sometimes the opponent can tech before they hit the ground

[Flick]

Extend is only comboable off of red cancel, simply because potemkin is in too much recovery to follow up.

In the corner though, it usually leads to a hard knockdown. sometimes the opponent can tech before they hit the ground

I dont know if it's new to you or not, but in #R,In corner u can combo from a regular Heat - i mean a single Heat, not a Heat from a combo, with f.S>Heat, at least on Pot and Axl

I usually play matches vs two of them,i use stuff like P(delay)>Heat(not extend)>f.S>Heat>Extend sometimes to mix with P tick Buster

 

[TheGamingTool]

Guilty Gear Xrd is getting closer and Potemkin is not getting any better (note that I am not calling him utter garbage). I know his not going to get anymore changes, at least I think, but do you know what will make him anymore better? This, of course, does not include cr. S godlike vacuum effect.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Mentioned this in a different thread I guess, but the biggest thing that they should do is improve his new moves to be a lot better.

6K needs more forward velocity (not less startup though) to make it a more reliable pressure and combo tool, as right now you can only use it when you're super close due to the massive pushback in this game plus the slow movement of 6K. This would also specicially really help him with mid-screen combos which are really pretty terrible for him right now.

Trisula I really have no idea about, it's a move that sounds pretty good on paper: another upperbody invincible option that also beats projectiles, which could in theory be quite good against certain mixups and characters. I think the problem here is the horizontal hitbox is too small to make it all that useful, plus you only get a combo (and not a great one) on CH as far as I know. Does he really need this move at all? Maybe they could give it vaccuum on block and a taller hitbox so you could use it as a 'pull down' move against jumpers? Or they could increase the horizontal range to make it more useful as a ground poke? I don't really know.

ICMP is pretty obvious. Startup being pretty slow and the hitbox is such that it's hard to land it even after j.HS unless you are deep. Make the startup faster and/or start moving forward quicker/sooner so it's easier to hit with. Maybe make it fast enough to combo off j.S, it would be really good if you could just do normal air combos like j.P j.K j.S ICPM. Considering the damage is bad and the knockdown not very good, that shouldn't be too big of a deal.

Heat Knuckle is obvious, bring back something on the non-extend version. Hard knockdown drop, or more meter gain (but not both though, lest we end up with AC again). Something.

Buster needs more range. Not much more you need to say about that. I get why they reduced it, but I think they went too far. Hammerfall YRC PB is super scary, and PB YRC is pretty sweet, but Buster's range and damage are just anemic. You can't really use it to punish unsafe things well anymore. I'm not saying to bring it back to the original range, but a little more would be good to help compensate for the increased pushback.

5P needs more hitstun vs air. Right now the move is pretty bad since you need an AA CH to get a combo from it, and it's worthless as a ground poke now. If they aren't going to make it a good ground poke again, it should at least be good for something. Being able to do 5P 2S 6K as an anti-backdash OS would be pretty rad.

Anyway, I think those are all pretty reasonable answers. Obviously they want to try something new for him this game so that's why I'd put piority on buffing his new moves. It's ArcSys though, so who knows what kinds of things they will even do for/to him next version.

If I were going really hog wild, I would turn Trisula into a charge up move. Make him like Kazuki Kazama, stock up on fire orb charges to spend on his other moves. FDB gets a free shot without reflecting a projectile, Heat Extend gets extra explosions/damage, Slidehead gets geisers like GG1, and so on, it'd be silly and fun and pretty unique for a grappler.

[TheGamingTool]

Wow! I can't agree anymore. I wasn't aware that his Pot. Buster have a smaller range. I just hope that with his current tools he can at least be a viable character. Mostly since he have some serious nerfs and even comparing to his GGXX-Slash counterpart. I am thinking that Arc is hating on grapplers...

[Henaki]

heat knuckle knock down

 

6k a tiny bit more range or return 2s to vaccuum

 

5p always combis into 5s as anti-air

 

increase pb damage by a small amount

 

nerf ram, eddie and faust a tiny bit

 

most of those are reiterations of whats said above but pot doesnt need a lot, trisula and icpmm dont need buffs. they have uses.

[D.R.F.]

I dont know if it's new to you or not, but in #R,In corner u can combo from a regular Heat - i mean a single Heat, not a Heat from a combo, with f.S>Heat, at least on Pot and Axl

I usually play matches vs two of them,i use stuff like P(delay)>Heat(not extend)>f.S>Heat>Extend sometimes to mix with P tick Buster

unfortunately no, I didnt have the chance to:(

[pokerus12]

I think this thread can be summarized by all of us crying into our full-sized Potemkin mattress covers...

 

Waaaaaahh...

[Circuitous]

I notated the stuff in the newest FAB tribute video.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24342842

 

CH j.H |> 2S > 6K > HFB, 6K > HFB, 5H > Giganter, step 6H > Giganter, step 6H.

 

6H > HFB, 2S > 6K > HFB, 6K.

 

Slide Head RC 6K > HFB, 6K > HFB, 2S > 6K > HFB, 6K > HFB, 2S > Heat Knuckle > Extend.

 

Mortal 6H, walk 6H > Giganter, 6H > Giganter > Blid.

 

Potemkin Buster RC falling j.H |> c.S > Heat Knuckle, Heat Knuckle > Extend.

 

Mortal Mega Fist, 5H > Heat Knuckle > Extend RC 6jump |> 6K > HFB, 6K (> HFB, 2S > 6K > Heat?)

 

CH 2H, 5H > Giganter, 6H.

 

6H > Hammerfall RRC 6K > HFB, 6K > HFB, 2S > 6K> HFB, 5H (> Heat? RRC = RC before hit. It's Red instead of Yellow 'cuz hitstun.)

 

CH j.S |> f.S > Heat Knuckle > Extend. (Works about mid-jump height.)

 

6H > Hammerfall RC 6K > HFB, delay 6H > HFB, 6K > HFB, 6H.

 

c.S > 2S > 6K > Hammerfall RC rising j.S > j.H > ICPM.

 

CH 2H > HFB, 6H > Giganter > Blid, c.S > 2S > Heat Knuckle > Extend.

 

CH 2H > HFB, 5H > Giganter > Blid RC walk 6H.

 

6H > HFB, 2S > 6K > HFB, 5H...

 

Stuff to take away from this:

• After doing 6K or 6H, you should always immediately be going back to charge Hammerfall. Always. This was probably obvious to anyone paying a bit of attention, but for people coming into Potemkin fresh, it's super important.
• 6K corner hitstun is strong! HFB > 2S works even towards the end of combos.
• You can combo Heat Knuckle into itself in the corner.
• Oki Slidehead is real.
• Giganter is a combo tool, use it like one.
• Gigantic Blid does crazy damage in Hellfire. It still does very respectable damage in normal mode.
• With 100 meter, do Gigantic Blid RC 6H etc. for the kill, Giganter 6H Giganter for dizzy.
• Flick startup is way faster. There's a scene where it clashes that I thought for sure was a reflected projectile because of how quickly it happened.
• CH j.S has pretty decent untech time.
• For maximum buttons, if you have between 25 and 49% tension, every hit in a corner combo should have an RC input after it. Yes, FAB is doing this. If they burst, you get a YRC, if not then nothing happens. Might as well use it.
• We need a shorthand for 6K > HFB.

[Flick]

Raw Translate of Potemskin's Frame data from Ruu and Kedako. If anyone notice anything wrong, pls point out so i can correct it

 

Backdash:21f.Invi:20f.

Jump Startup:5f.

 

Moves Frame Data will be written in this form: Move name:Startup(Duration).Move LV.Notation."-" means no information eg:-f means dont know how many frames

 

5P: 5f(15f).lv1

5K: 10f(27f).lv3

c.S: 9f(22f).lv3

f.S: 11f(35f).lv3

5H: 15f(37f).lv5

5D: 27f(44f).lv5

DAA: 13f(35f).lv3.Blow back on hit.

 

6P: 11f(36f).lv4.Float on ground hit.

6K: 16f(43f).lv5.Wallstick on air hit.

6H: 23f(57f).lv5.Blow back and float on hit, blow back on air hit, counter hit cause ground roll effect.

 

2P: 6f(15f).lv1

2K: 7f(24f).lv2

2S: 14f(36f).lv4.Stagger on ground counter hit.

2H: 13f(52f).lv5.Blow up on hit.

2D: 12f(30f).lv4

 

jP: 7f(18f).lv1

jK: 10f(30f).lv2

jS: 13f(41f).lv3.Stagger on ground counter hit.

jH: 13f(34f).lv4

jD: 13f(9f landing recovery).lv4.Active till landing, Knockdown on ground hit, slam on air hit.

 

Potemkin Buster: 3f(which means active on frame 4 - just like all the older version)(40f recover on wiff).

Hammerfall: 18~31f(65f when travel max distance).lv5.Can be P cancel from 2nd frame.

Hammer-Break: total time 15f.

Foward Megafist: 24f(39f).lv3.

Backward Megafist: 25f(39f).lv5.

F.D.B: 19f(33f).lv4.Stagger on ground hit.

F.D.B's Shockwave: 1f(-f).lv3.Stagger on ground hit.

Slidehead(Headslam): 25f(54f).lv5

Slidehead(Quake): 29f(-f).lv:-.Down effect on hit?(same as #R).

Heat: 14f(36f).lv-.Swing all the entire move?

Heat(Extend):-f(-f).lv-.

I.C.P.M: 16f(26f landing recovery).lv5.Active till landing, 10f special hitstop, slam effect.

Trisula: 25f(57f).lv3.Float on ground hit.Blow up on hit.

 

Gigantor: 9f+56f apprearance+8f super freeze(106f).lv5.Stagger on ground hit.

Gigantick Bullet: 49f(89f).lv5.Blow back on hit

Heavenly: 12f+40f(??)+1f super freeze(80f).lv-.Swing all the entire move?

 

Something about IK i was too lazy to translate 

 

Frame advantage after hitting I.C.P.M

(Wakeup frame)-1f=advantage

Sol: 24f

Ky: 22f

May: 24f

Millia: 24f

Zato: 24f

Potemkin: 23f

Chipp: 29f

Faust: 24f

Axl: 24f

Venom: 20f

Slayer: 25f

Ino: 23f

Bedman: 23f

Ramlethal: 24f

 

When follow an attack -2f(tested on Sol).

[Circuitous]

Why would Potemkin Buster have a different startup notation from every other move?

 

Anyway, let's get the +R/Xrd comparisons out of the way.

+Xf means it's slower by X many frames, -Xf means faster.

This only takes into account startup and duration, not special hit effects, proration, hitboxes, etc.

 

5P: Unchanged.

5K: +3f startup (7->10) and duration (24->27).

c.S: Unchanged.

f.S: -1f startup (12->11) and duration (36->35).

5H: Unchanged.

 

6P: -2f startup (13->11) and duration (38->36). Float on ground hit. (!!!)

6K: Different move entirely.

6H: Unchanged.

 

5D: -4f startup (31->27), -2f total duration (46->44).

DAA: Unchanged.

 

2P: -3f startup (9->6), -5f total duration (20->15).

2K: Unchanged.

2S: +1f startup (13->14), +5f total duration (31->36). No vacuum.

2H: Unchanged.

2D: +1 Level (3->4). No special cancel.

 

j.P: +2f startup (5->7), -1f total duration (19->18).

j.K: +1f startup (9->10) and duration (29->30).

j.S: -1f startup (14->13) and duration (42->41).

j.H: +2f startup (11->13) and duration (32->34).

j.D: +2f startup (11->13), +1 landing recovery (8->9).

 

Potemkin Buster: unchanged.

Hammerfall: -1f-4f startup (19~35->18~31). -2f total duration (65->63). +1 Level (4->5).

Hammerfall Break: Unchanged.

Mega Fist I: -1f startup (25->24). -6f total duration (45->39).

Mega Fist II: Unchanged.

F.D.B.: -2f startup (21->19) and duration (35->33).

F.D.B. Shockwave: Unchanged.

Slide Head: +2f startup (23->25, 27->29) and duration (52->54).

Heat Knuckle: Unchanged.

ICPM: New.

Trishula: New.

 

Giganter: +8f active (48->56)

Gigantic Blid: -2f startup (51->49), +1f total duration (88->89).

Heavenly Potemkin Buster: +3f total duration (37->40).

[Circuitous]

Why not, here's comparisons from #Reload to Xrd.

 

5P: same.

5K: +1f startup.

c.S: same.

f.S: same.

5H: same.

5D: -2f startup.

DAA: same.

 

6P: same.

6H: same.

 

2P: -3f startup.

2K: same.

2S: same.

2H: same.

2D: same.

 

j.P: same.

j.K: same.

j.S: same.

j.H: +2f startup.

j.D: same.

 

Heat Knuckle: same.

Mega Fist I: +1f startup.

Mega Fist II: same.

Slide Head: same.

Hammerfall: -1f startup.

Hammerfall Break: -3f duration.

F.D.B.: -2f startup.

F.D.B. Shockwave: -1f startup.

Potemkin Buster: -1f startup.

 

Giganter: same.

Gigantic Blid: -2f startup.

Heavenly Potemkin Buster: same.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Mega Fist I: -1f startup (25->24). -6f total duration (45->39).

F.D.B.: -2f startup (21->19) and duration (35->33). +1 Level (3->4).

FDB is Level 4 in ACPR too so I don't think that's a change.

Also Megafist I counts as a Level 2 on block in ACPR so that means, I believe, that the SD goes from -9 to -2 now. Big improvement.

6K has way less startup than I had guessed, that's going to make 6K Hammerbreak really damn tight in those loops.

[Circuitous]

FDB is Level 4 in ACPR too so I don't think that's a change.

Also Megafist I counts as a Level 2 on block in ACPR so that means, I believe, that the SD goes from -9 to -2 now. Big improvement.

6K has way less startup than I had guessed, that's going to make 6K Hammerbreak really damn tight in those loops.

 

You're right on F.D.B., I think I looked at Reflect by mistake.

 

New Mega Fist looks nice on paper. Give training mode please.

[Circuitous]

If you can read Japanese and know JP fighting game colloquialisms and whatnot, I'd love to see a translation of this information:

 

アクレボも終わったし飲み会でも聞かれたから儀式のコツを置いておく

 

6Kの発生が17F、壁貼り付けが36F（多分）、ハンブレが16F、猶予は3Fほどあると予想できる。

 

溜め時間の関係上ヒットストップの後に溜め解除になるのでヒットした火柱確認後解除を心がける。

 

RC暗転中or2Sヒット中に溜めて最速解除、中間から端にヒットする距離感で火柱後解除、端で最速ヒット後少しまって解除の3種類が基本形

 

6Kの当たり判定が「＞」の字型になってるのでキャラと状況毎に当たる箇所が違う事に注意

チップ、カイ、軽量級は特に注意する

 

上で当たる場合は最速発生から少し遅れて当たるため1ループ減らす事

 

最大で5ループ、少しでも時間があくと4ループが限界になる（ガドリングを増やすごとに1ループ減る）

 

2Sとの威力差がおそらく5しかないので安定して最大ダメを出すには2S6Kを入れると良い

安定最大パーツ

足払いorハンマー＞RC＞6Kハンブレ*3＞2S＞6Kハンブレ＞6Kハンブレ＞2S＞ヒート

2S6Kハンブレ＞HSヒートで妥協可能だが威力とゲージ回収が若干落ちる

最初の3ループが基本系かつ最大難度箇所

スライドからのみ6ヒットで構成すると受け身不能になる

[Henaki]

 

• We need a shorthand for 6K > HFB.

 

chariot tackle, because thats what urien uses to do double tackles too

 

also i updated the wiki w/ general potemkin strat stuff, i just added what ive seen in xrd.

[Circuitous]

Thanks Henaki, much appreciated.

 

So yeah, Xrd Potemkin's wiki page is officially live. I've provided some basic move descriptions and the frame data from above (filling in the blanks with comparisons to existing data as best I can). If you have any information to contribute, or want to make corrections, please feel free to do so.

 

You can edit without an account, just answer the question when you commit the change and it'll go through. If you want a wiki account proper, you can PM me here and I'll set you up. Just send me an email address and your desired username.