[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[Poultrygeist]

So how do you guys think the Bedster fares against the console chars so far?  I've heard people getting pretty frustrated with Elph rifle stance and grenade traps, can we deal with those well?  Are they really big threats or just online stuff?

[Tiamat]

Does anyone have any idea how to do ADDF so that both j.K and j.S will come out? If I do 993 or 883 quickly then all that happens is I get j.K realllllllly low to the ground, but when I watched Tsubu play he could do and air dash and still have j.S come out, his j.K came out way earlier.

 

like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai-YP6pnFNk#t=45m24s you can clearly see it. I don't believe it's a matter of inputting quicker, as no matter how quick I do it j.K either doesn't come out or hits the opponent in the feet. If I do 2883 (hj.ADDF) then it still doesn't work. I'm lost here.

 

Played the video at .25 speed pausing it and I got this screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/F3ydAVt.png?1

 

He was doing 886.  His animation doesn't look like that if he's doing 883.  

 

 

So how do you guys think the Bedster fares against the console chars so far?  I've heard people getting pretty frustrated with Elph rifle stance and grenade traps, can we deal with those well?  Are they really big threats or just online stuff?

 

I've only played him a couple days but the rifle means even if you are far away in the air you can't just throw task A carelessly or she can shoot you for it.  

[GKHiryu]

Huh, you're right, Tiamat! Due to how Bedman falls down I mistook it for 883. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

@ Poultrygeist

I have little exp with Sin/Elph so far. All I've gathered is that Sin seems to be one of the not-so-bad matchups, on account of him not being as capable in blowing up tasks as say Faust is. Elph, I dunno, rifle seems dangerous but at the same time its damage isn't too bad outside of situationals.

[Poultrygeist]

Really?  Even with that bigass flag Sin doesn't fuck up our tasks?  That's relieving.

[GKHiryu]

All I can say is - I don't see Sin as a bigger threat than Slayer. Take that as you will. We'll see how the game develops when people start working on some real tech and gameplan with Sin.

 

On a side note - am I the only one who was left speechless at how easily Faust can clear away tasks and outpoke Bedman? Granted I'm struggling hard to formulate a gameplan, let alone play effectively, but still at times I could only see myself jumping back and throwing Task A. If Faust is not quickly dispatched after continuous, relentless rushdown I don't see any way for Bedman to prevail.

[TheMajestikOne]

What do I do with this character?! 

[Poultrygeist]

All I can say is - I don't see Sin as a bigger threat than Slayer. Take that as you will. We'll see how the game develops when people start working on some real tech and gameplan with Sin.

 

On a side note - am I the only one who was left speechless at how easily Faust can clear away tasks and outpoke Bedman? Granted I'm struggling hard to formulate a gameplan, let alone play effectively, but still at times I could only see myself jumping back and throwing Task A. If Faust is not quickly dispatched after continuous, relentless rushdown I don't see any way for Bedman to prevail.

It seems like a real bitch of a matchup, but as Tsubu proves here http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23691071 it's definitely doable.  

[Jocelot]

Bedman is definitely the weirdest character I've used in a fighting game before. he is super fun to play you have to get used to a lot of weird mechanics.

Like when I use Task A Prime I end up mixing up myself lol.

[madworlder]

against Faust I've had the most success just running away and forcing him to block a jumping Task A (he'll crouch it if you throw one standing) and then using Task B while he's blocking. If you can get a Task B Deja Vu you can control space a lot easier, but it is a lot of just running away until you can safely Task B.

[GcYoshi13]

Is Hemi Jack (the ringing overdrive) invincible on frame 1?

 

I feel like I'm doing the input correctly, but whenever I need to do it (either on wake-up or in between obvious gaps in block strings), it just never comes out. The Frame data said it had like 7 or 8 frames of start-up so I'm wondering if Bedman can be hit before the super flash comes out or something.

[madworlder]

Sinusoidal Helios is the ringing overdrive, it's invincible 1-15. 14f startup, safe on block. It's throwable throughout, so it's not good on wakeup, ironically enough.

Today I learned 5K goes over lows and Slide Head, but it can be still be thrown.

[9:02 PM]

Is Hemi Jack (the ringing overdrive) invincible on frame 1?

 

I feel like I'm doing the input correctly, but whenever I need to do it (either on wake-up or in between obvious gaps in block strings), it just never comes out. The Frame data said it had like 7 or 8 frames of start-up so I'm wondering if Bedman can be hit before the super flash comes out or something.

 

Hemi Jack is the sheep one, the alarm clock one is Sinusoidal Helios. 

 

The alarm clock is strike invuln frame one and plus eleven on block so it's a good defensive option despite it losing to throws, but Xrd continues the tradition of Guilty Gear having a very small reversal window. I believe it's two frames as it was previously. It feels like they've added SOME degree of advanced input leniency (button hold), but no one has said anything about it, so it's purely speculation, and as with a two frame anything double tapping is probably the best solution. Generally the reversal window is later than you think it is; for Bedman it's right as his character model has completely stood up. There are three frames of this animation that look the same, but this is the one the H registered on during a successful wake up alarm clock:

 

http://tinypic.com/r/2duig02/8

[GcYoshi13]

Ah yeah got them mixed up, but that was very helpful. Thank you.

[Jocelot]

Is there a secret to doing 6HS after 5D in the corner? Seems like I always hit too early and accidentally trigger the homing dash or hit too late and get black beat.

[Shazzeh]

Is there a secret to doing 6HS after 5D in the corner? Seems like I always hit too early and accidentally trigger the homing dash or hit too late and get black beat.

It's just timing. Not the tightest link ever, but it's a little hard.

[Tiamat]

I dunno if anyone mentioned this before but apparently you can YRC Task A' and air Task C and it will still set out the icon.  This doesn't work for the other Task moves.  

[ARESone]

Yeah that's part of the trials.

[Blade]

Couple questions since Bedman has garnered MY interest.

 

1. Any pointers / tips for double-jumping in combos with him?  I know he's got that up and then direction thing going on... what's the timing for it in things like Dust air combos and such?  For jump cancel from other air moves I mean.

 

2. How safe/unsafe is Bed Flip (       )?  It seems to beat out a lot of things but not everything.  

 

3. Also how safe is (   )?

[Tiamat]

Couple questions since Bedman has garnered MY interest.

 

1. Any pointers / tips for double-jumping in combos with him?  I know he's got that up and then direction thing going on... what's the timing for it in things like Dust air combos and such?  For jump cancel from other air moves I mean.

 

2. How safe/unsafe is Bed Flip (       )?  It seems to beat out a lot of things but not everything.  

 

3. Also how safe is (   )?

 

1. Well in air combos you don't have to do 8 before the direction you want.  You can just do for example, j.S 9 j.P.  Don't do the attack too fast after the cancel or the attack won't come out.  

2. frame data is here: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bedman_(GGXRD) It is pretty safe on guard.  If you're talking about the risk of being hit out of it then that depends on when you use it.  

3. going by the frame data in the wiki 6H is very unsafe by itself at -14 on guard, but you can cancel it to specials 

[TransientFaith]

What Tiamat said... here's just random other rants

 

1. I just mash out air combos honestly. He can't actually jump cancel most of his normal in the normal "jump cancel" sense. It feels like just directional/stance/glide-cancel it into neutral and then input the direction you want to go. So for like j.P > j.S > j.P > j.S combos I will just double tap 9 so it becomes j.P > j.S > 99 > j.P > j.S. However for j.K > j.S > j>K > j.S or corner j.S > j.S I'll usually double tap 6 for j.K > j.S > 66 > j>K > j.S or j.S > 66 > j.S respectively.

 

2. Standing pushes back normally so it's pretty "safe" in the unpunishable sense (it's also -2 according to frame data). On instant block though, they come within throw range so I have been IB > throw punished for doing it. The same rules should apply to the air version but its a little harder to punish and is either safe or plus on normal block.

 

3. -14 on block according to frame data. You can special cancel it to task B for an airtight blockstring but obviously task B is throw punishable on block. You can try task A but I believe there is still a gap for DPs...

[madworlder]

Anybody have experience vs. Elphelt? I can't beat the character in neutral or get out of pressure. Seems like I'm reduced to punishing flower car, but that's even safe if done from the proper range.

Generally, I'm having trouble getting in a position to put Task B Deja Vu on the board, and that seems like the key to most of his matchups.

[Tiamat]

Anybody have experience vs. Elphelt? I can't beat the character in neutral or get out of pressure. Seems like I'm reduced to punishing flower car, but that's even safe if done from the proper range.

Generally, I'm having trouble getting in a position to put Task B Deja Vu on the board, and that seems like the key to most of his matchups.

 

I see matchup subforums have just been added.  You should start a topic there for Bedman vs Elphelt

[NecroTheReaper]

So I got the game today, took a liking to Bedman after watching story mode and his appearance... character wise he was the Relius of the game to me xD. Though, I am kinda sad that there's not a combo thread up. Is Bedman a very underplayed character? Also, what are the basics of his combos, cuz seems like all of his good damage comes after that first knockdown.

[Tiamat]

So I got the game today, took a liking to Bedman after watching story mode and his appearance... character wise he was the Relius of the game to me xD. Though, I am kinda sad that there's not a combo thread up. Is Bedman a very underplayed character? Also, what are the basics of his combos, cuz seems like all of his good damage comes after that first knockdown.

There are some combos at the top of page 3 of this topic if you didn't see them.  The video thread has some videos with good basic combos you can use.  

[Poultrygeist]

Since Bedman is a very unorthodox character (befitting his personality IMO) I think it would be a good idea to post stuff that we feel everyone should know, and hopefully not only make the transition to playing him easier on us, but to maybe encourage other players who may be intimdiated by his awkwardness.

 

First of all there's this that was posted eariler in the thread: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s392/sh/bc9ea4a5-0b8a-4d94-9438-9ec386523598/2cfa94a00bc1f793 very helpful IMO.  One thing I feel it fails to elaborate on is that Bedman's regular walk speed is pretty nuts compared to other characters.  Maybe you could treat crawl as your "real" walk and walk as your dash, since his dash is more of a guard point thing due to weird mobility?

 

Also would it be cool if I went ahead and made the MU threads?  They'd be good to have IMO.