[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[TheBossGiga]

ODing off of a JCable normal is better...but how many useful JCable normals does Ragna have, that you'll actually hit the other person with on a regular basis? 6C requires either crouching or an RC off of certain moves (so you're spending the meter anyway in many cases). 6A scales bad and can't be used in hitconfirms because you can't JC it on block anymore. 3C doesn't float very high at ALL, so unless you're already juggling someone, 3C > JC > OD seems pretty unfeasable (though not necessarily impossible).

RC off of OD is not ideal in comparison, but realistically you will probably hit it more often in a real match. The most combo-friendly move you can OD off of with a JC is 6C, and you won't even get to hit someone with it that often. So which option is better? The more damaging one, or the one you might actually hit someone with? Because if you go that route, then you're no longer comparing OD off of a JC with OD off of an RC, but OD off of an RC to a non-OD combo that you might be able to end with a CT or super. In which case, we don't know which option is more damaging (yet), so why just completely write off the option of ODing off of an RC? I considered OD off of JC as well, it would probably be pretty good if optimized, but you might not get to hit someone with it that often in comparison.

Another potential option is combo into CT, then OD, if CT gives enough time from its knockdown. Options would include corner throw > CT > OD > etc, or corner combo into 22C > CT > OD > etc.

near the corner

(starter) 3c 22c DS dc 5c 6A js OD or just straight OD after the dc

6B 5D(1) DID punch OD

AA hit dash 5b 6A

GH keri age dash 5b 6A

air to air J.C counter hit 5B or 5A, 6A

after BE

after DID fatal

after an air hit dead spike

i can go list possibilities all day

granted these all depend on OD speed which looks really fast

But i honestly dont think it will be hard to cancel into OD.

[Final Ultima]

Wait, if 5B > 5C > A+B+C+D, 5B works as TITANIUM BEAST!!! says, then what's stopping Ragna from doing 5B > 5C (JCC), A+B+C+D into dash 5B?

[Cheefoo]

Wait, if 5B > 5C > A+B+C+D, 5B works as TITANIUM BEAST!!! says, then what's stopping Ragna from doing 5B > 5C (JCC), A+B+C+D into dash 5B?

That's what I was thinking, but maybe 5C isn't jump cancelable anymore?

[xlolxlolx]

you retarded?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Wait, can't you OD off Hell's Fang(1) then continue with 5B from there?

[Tong]

You can't cancel special moves into OD. If you're talking anout airhit, nah... OD isn't 0 frame.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Tong

[skd]

3C > jc OD > j.623D may work, but i'm only hypothetically speaking

CT also gives enough untechable time for DS to work afterwards, so OD into 5C could be very possible in that situation

i asked jiyuna this like day 2, i dont know if he did it right but he said it doesnt connect

[KayEff]

oh really

[TheBossGiga]

If the start up of ragna's OD 10 frames or less(it could be a lil more but im sure you have to wait for atleast 1frame of jump start-up)

You could do 5c JCC OD and anything 8 frames or faster(like a close 5b), a high hitting 3c JCC OD into anything 7frames or faster(like a 2a or ID), 6a JCC OD into anything 14 frames or faster and 6c into anything about 30 frames or faster.

If OD is 7 frames or less then

5c JCC OD into anything 11 frames or faster is possible. a regular 3c into anything 7 or maybe 8 frames or faster, 6a JCC OD into most things would be possible and the same for 6c JCC OD

If its faster than that then even more options open up.

This is if alot of the untechable time and hit-stun of the moves stayed the same as EX however, so this may not be accurate.

Edited December 22, 2012 by TheBossGiga

[Kuraudo_V6]

I like how everyone's building up their OD capabilities and we're stuck here thinking "How do we make Ragna's not suck?"

Kinda like a puzzle, only we won't know the end result and what it looks like until we solve it.

[WolfCrimson]

@TheBossGiga:I think you might be confusing some people with your terminology. jump startup cancel already has a term for it: Jump cancel cancel, or JCC.

As for JCCing moves into OD, seems like this is the way to go to not lose OD time.

[TheBossGiga]

Oh, I didn't realize that. I'll fix it thanks

Edited December 22, 2012 by TheBossGiga

[heavymetalmixer]

Does this means that 5D(1) can be canceled in Dead Spike?

http://youtu.be/Ql_sHgK5VT4?t=11m43s

[Tong]

Since CT, my friend.

[heavymetalmixer]

Since CT, my friend.

But i don't see anyone use it inside of combos like we do in CSEX, so what's the problem with it? or the most of the players in Japan are just dumb?

[xlolxlolx]

you have very bad observational skills......its because new ds hitbox

[Kuraudo_V6]

you have very bad observational skills......its because new ds hitbox

Pretty much this. If Dead Spike was taller, then it'd be easier.

[Gramas]

IAD crossup DID rapid neutral OD would create a cs like combo.

sideswitch combo should be something into 6C IAD j.D land j.A j.D etc

this If the untech time of 6C and j.D its still the same ofc

Edited December 22, 2012 by Gramas

[Tong]

Man, j.D sucks now... just kills damage.

[Fistmaster049]

Man, j.D sucks now... just kills damage.

so even j.B is looking better now?

[WolfCrimson]

Yea. The way to go for damage in aerial combos is jB>jC.

[skd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2KHisWwfow&t=10m20s

w

[heavymetalmixer]

What about this comobo?

http://youtu.be/bPrTlphBTKI?t=8m41s

[Tong]

I bet if CT was used somewhere, it would had dealt more damage.

[Lucalibur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2KHisWwfow&t=10m20s

w

Because what is recovery.