[UNIEL] Linne

[Rhiya]

what char actually has "strong" mixup in this game? chars with command grabs?

 

unseeable mixup (orie), cmd grabs, etc.

[ProfDrJeyu]

So far from all the work I have been putting in online against people the best mix up I think Linne has is letting people air recover and then forcing them to guess in a Left/Right mix up.

 

Although this only works if they are willing to tech in the air since you can't do anything til you hit the ground and it also lets you mess up almost all reversals if you side swap with them.

Other than that luna is pretty much spot on. All of our mix ups are sketchy and unless your opponent is respecting you which lets you start doing all sorts of more dangerous options

[BadAtMeltan]

Dunno if this was posted already, but you can clash kuuga with vatistas 64 laser charge move. Look hilarious because the hitbox for the laser disappears, but he animation is still hitting you. 

[Ayane]

I browsed through the thread and didn't see any "USE THIS BNB"

Is there any pretty universal bnb for her?  

Hoping she doesn't have any tight links or anything.

Check my first post (2nd post on this thread) for bnbs.

 

 

It had some advantage depending onheight but I have yet to test it for this application but theoretically it should be able to continue pressure if you did it point blank. And super canceling into EX Kuuga will always be safe.

EDIT: I looked at the doc again and it doesn't say any numbers so I shouldn't spread misinformation.

I believe TK Kuuga is +8. It is a true block string if done right.

 

Also have u guys tried Assault>charge j.6B for mixups?

 

Most characters have something similar to this and its probably the best mixup she has. Assault>j.6>|land cancels after the white charge flash but before the j.6B hits>2B. Of course this is better for characters with faster lows but u can do things like. fake J.6>land>assault j.C etc.

 

I do agree overall tho she doesn't have the best mixups. She has weak standing overheads in terms of speed and assault in general is pretty slow. Most of my hits are off frame traps because you can get pretty creative with pressure in this game and everything Linne does looks (and most likely is) negative.

 

TK Kuuga is redic in pressure. You do something like 3C>5A whiff>they start to mash>TK Kuuga CH them>Profit.

 

That's the best I've got so far. Like I said and someone else mentioned earlier roll crossups can put in work for people who auto tech (pretty much everyone atm). But people who delay tech or don't tech at all can easily mess up Linne "setups".

[Pnoth]

 

TK Kuuga is redic in pressure. You do something like 3C>5A whiff>they start to mash>TK Kuuga CH them>Profit.

 

 

damn ye this is insane! But ye I think Linne mixups are mostly off air techs and trying to cross under or something but the fact that you need to use 2b for a low is kinda bad since its slower and they can mash, but crossunder then assult is very good

 

But ye She is more pressure based tho so ye frame traps are pretty good for her, especially using tk kuuga

Edited August 8, 2014 by Pnoth

[xlolxlolx]

generally speaking, advantage of air moves, especially fireballs, are all relative to distance and height, the farther and lower you are the more advantageous itll be

 

i didnt put any numbers for advantage on point blank tk fireballs because of how much character height varies in this game, generally itll be at a minimum +1 across the board, maybe even or -1 on say standing wald/merkava at point blank, in most cases where you're going to be further away so you'd still be at an advantage off a tk b fireball with dash 5a/2a etc

 

tldr her katame is kinda like ky's

[Ayane]

Yea good point I think it was +8 on someone crouching, but people tend to respect it as long as its TK'd; which is probably a good idea

[LunaKage]

I think it's always the same if you use A fireball, since crouching or not, it connects as soon as it comes out, but it's still crazy advantage. As long as you do it as close to the ground as possible.

 

Also, I have a little horror story I titled "WHY YOU SHOULD NEVER FUCK UP TK FIREBALL"

 

I was facing Leonil's Nanase, and I went to do TK A Fireball, but I fucked up the TK, and instead did a while rising j.A, this in itself isn't bad, however Leo did a standing shield, which meant I was vulnerable throughout the whole jump arc, and I got punished.

 

So there you go kids, make sure you don't screw up that TK input!

[ZDH513]

Just wondering but what is everyone doing with Linne double jump I haven't found much use for it in combos yet cause J.B>J.6B>J.C>J.2B seems to be the standard and can be done in one jump. Just wondering what other uses i can have for it to increase my oki or just neutral game.

[Pnoth]

I use double jump in the corner. After i do combo>6CCC>236C then jump back then jump forward and depending on the time you do the first jump you can hit them high low. They air tech the 236C but they cant forward tech because you block their path. Its a pretty good oki imo

[spiralfang]

Okay so I just started using linne and I must say shes really fun I was wondering are there any tips u guys can give me starting out

[ProfDrJeyu]

For the double jump I like using it to fake a landing into a low or double over head and in the corner I like using it to jump over people trying to DP me out of the air but out side of that and using it for random air to air confirms I don't use it much

 

It has some good qualities if you are fighting through a fireball war though so really I think use of the double jump just comes down to play style.

[bellreisa]

hello

 

so lately i see a lot of people asking about linne's mixup and was working on some stuff in my gameplan that i figured would help. before we start though, we need to get on the same page about a lot of basic concepts first to ensure that all of the stuff at the end makes sense:

 

- linne's character type: linne is not a typical anime mixup character, and uniel is not a typical anime mixup game. this means that hard to see left-rights and high-lows are not part of the gameplan. what is she good at, then? linne's strengths lie in having strong normals, good range, and high speed, which add up to a gameplan focused around whiff punishing opponents' mistakes, making them afraid to push buttons, and being placed into situations where they are forced to guess between respecting further pressure or reacting.

 

- uniel's basic mixup: at the core of uniel is a standard rps mixup:

 

throw > block

mash/throw tech > throw

assault > mash/throw tech

block > assault

 

obviously it's a bit more complicated than this, but this is the basis of how to attack and defend in the game. you pressure them with blockstrings, place yourself in advantageous positions where you can harass with normals and start mixing up the timings in your pressure to force a guess between tech throw and mashout.

 

"but you can just tech throw on reaction!" - throw tech window for non-gold throws is 14F, this is incredibly hard to consistently do on reaction if not impossible. most people do this on anticipation, which lets you bait them

 

"you can just get hit by assault OS!" - this is true, we're getting to that in a second

 

"what's an assault OS?" - this is where things get complicated, hold on until we get there

 

- linne's corner combo ender: linne has multiple combo enders, with 214b being the damage ender, 6c being the hard down ender, and the others being resets used when you notice an opponent's patterns and want to set up a mixup based off their airtechs. (remember, airtechs do not have crossup protection, so they are one of the few times you can set up legit left/right mixups!) since linne is a strong momentum character, you almost always want to take the 6c down and start forcing them to make decisions on wakeup as to whether they want to block or mash something out

 

- microdash 5a: if you've studied katou, jikangire, or fusemaster's linne, you will notice that they like using dash-in 5a at midrange and microdash 5a to reset pressure strings. microdash 5a can be done with 66a or 6ab~a; i use the second since i find tapping a bit faster for me personally. microdash 5a is a very powerful tool as 5a's hitbox hits all crouchers, and the move comes out fast and can be confirmed into pretty much anything, blockstring or grounded combo or anti-jumpout conversion. the most important part of microdash 5a is that you can use it in conjunction with corner 6c knockdown to set up a situation where opponent is forced to respond by either blocking, hitting throw tech, or using a reversal. there's a lot of details here with spacing and baits and general FG psychology that i'm too lazy to type up but i'm sure you can figure it out if you go into training mode and try it

 

this is where the "issue" with linne pressure begins though. after blocking a single 5a, she pushes herself out of range of throw, effectively removing it as a mixup option. when you are past that range, her only choices are assault (telegraphed), dash in throw (mashable), and more blockstringing (not an actual mixup, gives opponent grd). this is probably where a lot of players are finding themselves right now, thus the "linne has poor mixup" posts

 

- kara throw: this is actually not a true kara throw, but a microdash throw which you can do with 66ad or 6ab~ad. the first input method is highly preferred as it avoids possibility of getting assault. when done properly, linne will slide forward and throw, expanding the range massively. you are able to throw people from a range where 2b would be an ideal poke normally. since the game is still early on in its lifespan, there's a good chance most people won't expect the range of this yet and get caught by it a lot at first, even if they have linne MU experience, since they're used to throws being set up in a certain range. when you mix in the capability of having normals and throw be an option, the pressure linne can exert becomes a genuine threat as down-backing is no longer a catch-all answer

 

- assault OS: there is a universal OS (except for akatsuki lol) which allows characters to tech throw and anti-air with a crouching normal. examples:

 

eltnum: 3acd - tech throw or 3c

gordeau: 2acd - tech throw or 2c (8f!)

merkava: 3acd - tech throw or 3c (the tumbling move)

linne: 2abd - tech throw or 2b (doesn't AA, but moves forward and can slide her under assault normals)

 

once an opponent is aware of kara throw range, they are going to start teching more aggressively at ranges they normally wouldn't. this allows you to use assault to crush those attempts. however, they can also use assault OS, which will stuff the kara throw as the extra space allows normals like gordeau 2c time to come out, instead of letting the tech option happen.

 

in this case, if an opponent is aware of the kara throw, and is using assault OS to beat it, you can use several counter options to force the current rps game back to your side:

 

- microdash 5a, delay the next normal to counterhit assault OS mash (this is what 5ac is for. 5ac isn't seamless, but the 5c will catch mashers)

- 5a, step back 2b/2c to outrange and whiff punish AA mash attempts

- microdash 5a, repeat to establish that you're not going for throw, to train opponent out of mentality of going for it

 

anyway, a lot of this stuff should be obvious if you play around with it in matches, but hopefully it's clear to everyone. let me know how things go!!

[LunaKage]

That's the kinda stuff I've been using. It just doesn't feel that strong imo. Especially when the throw OS is used. Like I said before, most of my damage comes from hitting someone at neutral, or punishing unsafe moves. Which makes it really hard against characters that are strong zoners, or characters that don't really incorporate many punishable moves in their gameplan.

[Rhiya]

you can't be predictable and hit people in this game

 

watch matchvids, xcopy pressure until you understand and can make it up yourself

[ZDH513]

Anyone else getting annoyed with the Merkava MU, cause its a pain to respect him so much and his normals just stuff me all the time and he racks up so much dmge so fast >.>

At least i found that dash C and Air A Kuuga are the way to go. 

[FlameIce]

Hey guys. Is there any frame data for Linne some where? I've searched but I haven't found anything yet. Hopefully I didn't look over anything obvious. 

[worldjem7]

I actually wanted to post frame data and a bunch of stuff earlier today but the servers were too busy and I had to leave.

 

Here's the frame data, I'll post the rest of my original post later.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MX2xh_L-Zph2JXt8j11flpdGVDJ_t6oHn8Stu4fTla4/edit#gid=0

 

5A is the best A starter
5B is the best B starter
5C is the best C starter

Universal Meterless BnB (works anywhere on anyone)
Optional j.B/C jump-in > Any 2 moves (including 5C) > 2C > 5/6C > 624A > 5B > j.B > j.6B > j.C > j.2B >  C-move of choice > 623A/214A~A/~B

This combo gets anywhere between 2.4k and 2.9k depending on starter and ender.

 

I end in 623A/214X~X instead of just 6CCC because it gives more damage and more "knockdown" time since they can't act in the air if they air tech. It's more consistent than 6CCC because some characters seem to just drop out after the first 6C.

 

5C > 2C does more damage than 2C > 5C, so doing 5C > 2C > 6C > ... would be best if you start with a C or B move.

You can replace the "C-move of choice" at the end with 6B if you feel you don't have enough time to fit in a C move. This will also make that part of the combo much easier.

If you've used all your C moves earlier in the combo 2C gives the best damage at the end, otherwise use 6C or 5C if you haven't used it before. If you're going to omit a C early in the combo, aim to omit 6C as it gives better damage later in the combo than the other C moves if omitted.

 

624A only works off Assault jump-in if you do d.C > 624A then you can do the rest of the combo normally.

 

You can also do B starter > 5C > 2C > 214X~A > TK Kuuga > j.B > j.6B > j.C > j.2B > 6C > 623A/214A~A/~B

and adjust your 214X based on distance to get better damage than the BnB. Same rule applies to the ender, swap 6C for 6B to make it easier.

This combo is more consistent from up close, though, so it's probably better to just do it after a 5B starter and do 214A~A.

Kuuga Starter
j.236A/B > 2C > 5C > 624A > 5B > j.B > j.6B > j.C > j.2B > 6C > Ender

Enders:
623A - 3036
214A~A - 3037
214A~B - 3113 (best used in corner)

[sharnt_]

Enders:
623A - 3036
214A~A - 3037
214A~B - 3113 (best used in corner)

 

 

Did you consider 63214A ?
I'm ending my combos with 6CC 63214A, enable you to do several mixups and good dmg

[spiralfang]

Im having a hard time doing tk236 after 214B~A any advice

[bellreisa]

hello

 

to easily get tk kuuga out from mujin, you can do this:

 

214b[8]~a~4269b

 

be sure to hold 8 only after you input the b, and during the a press. since you can only jump cancel near the end this will automate the timing a bit

 

this is outlined in linne.txt along with optimal combo routes!

[ZDH513]

Idk if someone posted this earlier but I was testing that someone talked about Hien B being a good ender from 6CC and while everything they put is true. I find that Hien B can actually combo and not whiff but only on three charc's. Waldenstein, Merkava, Gordeau (surprise surprise the top 3). This also opens up new options like using Hien B in combo to extend it. I found that 2B>2C>63214B>5B>J.B>J.6B>J.C can be combo' into and depending on how you want to end it you can do J.2B to get the knockdown or got for an Air Kuuga if your opp. techs right away for a mixup. Just something i found i haven't explored it too much but again it only works on the top 3.

[Ayane]

Hien B can work in other combos too. From what I found the damage is pretty much never worth setting up for it. There are starters like AA 6CC>Hien B>5B>TK Kuuga> the Linne classic and FF>CS>6CC>Hien B>same thing that are really good to use it with though.

[worldjem7]

Enders:

623A - 3036

214A~A - 3037

214A~B - 3113 (best used in corner)

 

Did you consider 63214A ?

I'm ending my combos with 6CC 63214A, enable you to do several mixups and good dmg

I did not consider this because many times I tried to go for 6CC in other combos, they'd drop out after the first 6C.

 

I'll try this out. How much damage do you get with it?

 

For 6CC > 624A I'm getting 3011 into a ground tech, from TK Kuuga starter with a decent amount of setup time, and you can even combo into 624B for 3067 on Merkava (most likely the same as the 3 ZDH513 mentioned).

 

For doing 214B~A > TK Kuuga if you're too close, you can delay a bit after 2C until they touch the floor, then you can do 214B~A and the TK Kuuga will be much easier to combo after.

 

if the TK Kuuga is the problem, just hit up on the last hit of 214B~A and then do the motion. It will buffer the jump if you hit up on the last hit.

 

214A/B~A seem to have the same minimum damage scaling, but the ~A followup to 214B does slightly more damage initially so it won't hit it as soon.

 

TK Kuuga, if done directly from the ground, does not take into account what direction you hold when you hold up, and it will go the same distance regardless. So, doing 2367 2368 2369 will all give the same result. If you want to change your position, you have to jump first, then do the move.

[spiralfang]

Ohhhhh okay thank you so much