AC: Matchups

[Kurokun]

Hey Kuro you played dizzy at evo? I didn't see any dizzy players when I was there (except during the finals, alex g.) but I only participated in the team tourney so I didn't see what happened in the singles. Good to know there were others :D

I played in the team tourney also with a team of a: PO, JO, DI. Almost made it into 3rd round of comp but team got KO'ed, lol. I think I saw a couple other DI players during the team tourney: Alex G, and maybe 2 others beside myself. In singles though, I only noticed Alex G. and myself, though there may have been others but I'm not sure. I spent some of my time watching Alex G's matches among other things to see his DI in action, good stuff there.

I haven't played the PO matchup in a while, though I remember jumping out as an option every now and then out of fear of being straight up Pot Buster'ed. The last bunch of posts have given me something to think about the next time I play PO.

What are your guys' opinions/thoughts on the DI vs SL matchup?

I played at keep away in that matchup which helped, that and his oki is problematic at times but I managed for the most part.

[bizarro]

Slayer imo is definitely a hard matchup. At evo I got humiliated by Kami-chan's slayer :D I have a friend who plays slayer sometimes. Don't try dry summons, especially bubbles, as slayer can shoot across the screen almost instantly. If he does that overhead kick a lot, you can counter with 5P on reaction once you get used to it (2S seems a bit slow on reaction). Your 2S will fail against his j.H 90% of the time, and your 6P will fail as well, although it fairs slightly better than 2S. I find that 214P~H setup is safest as it will stay near you to take hits, but watch out for his ( i don't know slayer moves ) charging double kick (the one that launches) as the 2nd kick will hit you after the 1st kills the fish. You can backdash a lot of his moves, so try that out.

[bizarro]

Cant Pot do jP after jS? That would be able to prevent any backdashes.

Yeah, the pots I used to play around here do that quite often. And after j.p they tend to pb

[Kurokun]

Slayer imo is definitely a hard matchup. At evo I got humiliated by Kami-chan's slayer :D

I have a friend who plays slayer sometimes. Don't try dry summons, especially bubbles, as slayer can shoot across the screen almost instantly. If he does that overhead kick a lot, you can counter with 5P on reaction once you get used to it (2S seems a bit slow on reaction). Your 2S will fail against his j.H 90% of the time, and your 6P will fail as well, although it fairs slightly better than 2S. I find that 214P~H setup is safest as it will stay near you to take hits, but watch out for his ( i don't know slayer moves ) charging double kick (the one that launches) as the 2nd kick will hit you after the 1st kills the fish. You can backdash a lot of his moves, so try that out.

I can relate with an EVO story, I got to play Yossan's I-No. I -somehow- got 1 round on him but got massacred the rest of the time, lol. I played in a tourney last weekend and had to go against Slayer in back-to-back matches for semi and final. In the end I prevailed and won the tourney; mostly just playing keep-away, got summons out to do stuff, get in to do damage then get out, and repeat. I did most of my summoning outside of mid-screen to get things going because SL can close the gap quickly with some of his attacks that advance him forward. In regard against SL's oki, I endured a lot of 6k starters into knockdown combo or ground-to-air combo. 5P works? I should try that out. What do you use backdash for mostly? I usually ended up jumping out after a good block and ran away to do something. For the most part all I did was hit-and-run tactics at range keeping mindful of SL when he had tension to do stuff. I didn't even consider approaching SL unless I had considerable cover and even then I had to make sure the attempt I launched counted and I got a knockdown to set up oki. I'm a bit more comfortable with the matchup now after playing it a whole lot more against 2 SL players here last weekend, even though its still a bad match for DI. Thanks for the input.

[zaeris]

lol, sometime I'm starting to believe dizzy has all unfavourable match up. Even her highest win rate one comes with a high probability of death (BUSTER).

I haven't played the PO matchup in a while, though I remember jumping out as an option every now and then out of fear of being straight up Pot Buster'ed. The last bunch of posts have given me something to think about the next time I play PO.

rather worry about being pot buster which is usually anticipatable, his combo into heat which is the most annoying. Heat leading into knockdown/tension is probably the gayest thing given to pot next to slide head being OTG combo'able.

[Kurokun]

rather worry about being pot buster which is usually anticipatable, his combo into heat which is the most annoying. Heat leading into knockdown/tension is probably the gayest thing given to pot next to slide head being OTG combo'able.

Truth on those points. PO also having that 2S w/vacuum property is somewhere up in that mix.

[Stag.S]

I worry about the matchup because if you mess up he can take back all of your work in one PB or combo, like his Slidehead to 2K 2S 2HS HPB. Not to mention his mirror shehanigans Somehow back when I was scrubbier than I am now, in one matchup, reversal imperial and necro lost out to his tension...

[excelence]

for Imperial and Necro lose out to Giganteer, that because 1. Imperial case : no invincible frame during active (already forgot how many times being countered with "that's my name" etc ) 2. Necro : u pull the moves on reversal timing and he read that one

[Stag.S]

Yeah I guessed as much, he read me preempted my tensions, if real life mechanics carried over I was split in half by the mirror when I got up to do my tension moves

[zaeris]

its being a while since I last ask for help on match up but I think I need serious help vs INO.

what do you do?

• against INO throw tech traps.
• Okizeme
• Zoning Notes
• Stroke the tree

these are my current issue against INO, most of her attacks are really gay against Dizzy especially her note Zoning.

[woki]

vs INO.

what do you do?

INO throw tech traps: I think late teching is the only way.

Okizeme:

Save your burst and tension for DAA!!!!

just one example of Ino's pattern

dash j.k

|

j.s -- j.d (overhead, also works as frame trap) -- delayed VCL (frame trap)

|

--- (land) low attack

You can get ready to do something after blocking chemical love but then if she has 25% tension, she can FRC it and do chemical love one more time for another frame trap, so that's another thing that you have to watch out for.

Zoning Notes: The number of hit increases as the note travels farther, so try not to block it when you are full screen away. Air pike seems to work better for me against the note.

Stroke the tree: I'd try to backdash because she'd often FRC it into throw.

And correct me if I'm wrong. I want to know more about this matchup as well.

[bizarro]

to be honest i have a hard time against ino too. if you think the note is annoying try her chemical love, it can punish you for summoning anywhere less than a full screen away. you have no real counters to that short baiting your summon and icespiking instead but you're rarely close enough for that and even if you were ino usually "strokes her big tree" (seriously wtf name is that??) speaking of which, with no summons on the floor at mid range you have to constantly watch out for her tree or a simple dash forward for an insanely fast high hit rushdown, which itself can be a fake into a low kick or a j.HS animation fake into land and grab. once you're down the note meaties you down for 3(?) full hits giving ino plenty of time without using its FRC to do the high/low/throw mixup on you all over again. breaks in her high/low rushdown are usually just another dash j.HS, or dizzy's 2D range. the only viable way to punish this reset at midrange is to anticipate another dash and throw out f.S, or use 2D/icespike in anticipation of her stroking her tree which means death if ino decides to dash instead. at farther midrange she just chemical loves FRC > airdash in > pressure which also takes us to her pressure using chemical-love-FRC > dash as a pressure reset (similar to baiken's tatami-mat-FRC rushdown). your only option to counter is to use her 2S anti-air as soon as she does chemical love, which will counter hit her when she follows with FRC > airdash > j.HS (which you can follow up with 421S for a bubble loop). oftentimes though, the ino will fuck up her airdash after FRC and will fall instead, which means your 2S will be empty and ino will counter you instead. ain't that fucked up? my advice for blocking? FD the first 2-3 hits (2 hits if ino opens with j.HS) and then SUPERJUMP the fuck outta there. don't do this too often or you'll be read, mix it up with a summon/dash every now and then. if you try to read her offense and find holes, you're dead. it is just too hard to punish her rushdown, it has a major advantage against dizzy's normals. try to counter only if you know the player well enough, for example if he can pull off the cloveFRC>airdash, or has tendency to use certain rushdown strings. edit: it might not be j.HS i know the animation but i don't know what her normals are listed as.

[excelence]

i'm pretty certain Dizzy 5p is a good tools v her rush down, and she can 2hs I-no stbt by reaction ... frc it just to be safe and goes on neutral and only summon on fake up/knock down well it's been 4~5 months since my last I-no Fight, i think it goes up that way

[zaeris]

i'm pretty certain Dizzy 5p is a good tools v her rush down, and she can 2hs I-no stbt by reaction ... frc it just to be safe and goes on neutral and only summon on fake up/knock down

well it's been 4~5 months since my last I-no Fight, i think it goes up that way

While 5p has good range Ino pressure string are Top tier, tried blocking it, its not as bad as blocking Eddies mix up but it does strain your mind guessing high and lows. If I had a choice between blocking Millia or Ino mix up I would pick Millia in a heart beat.

The only summon that I believe is worthwhile to any Dizzy player is holding Air Spike, Ino has complete dominance at every distance. While Dizzy has good range and poke she doesn't fair well with laggy attacks giving INO full advantage.

Fd her block String is an interesting concept creating distance might be a viable option to consider now that I think about it.

2d --> ice spike is probably one thing I should had spent more time consider it is a good option if your opponent is prone to read your 2d cancel into bubble or fish. Summon on KD is 50/50, Stroke the tree can go under j2s and hs fish oki which is a really annoying reversal.

you're force to meaty 2k in most cases.

to be honest i have a hard time against ino too. if you think the note is annoying try her chemical love, it can punish you for summoning anywhere less than a full screen away. you have no real counters to that short baiting your summon and icespiking instead but you're rarely close enough for that and even if you were ino usually "strokes her big tree" (seriously wtf name is that??)

hahaha, I agree INo is annoying overall in general. While Chemical Love is a tad annoying at best it only knocks you down which can be just as brutal eating her okizeme. this is where I wish Dizzy had her old 2d range back, that would set a few bars in Dizzy favours.

[bizarro]

Good points, and also a tip on round openers: use crouching bock.

Ino can start with chemical love right away, punishing a backdash or IAD. CL will whiff your crouching block, giving you time to punish with an icespike afterwards for a CH* if you do it fast enough or dash > throw for a more solid okizeme setup (you can also open with icespike and CH ino if you know she'll open with CL, but if ino does anything else you're in trouble)

Crouching block will also save you from stbt, dash, and her midrange normals. Just 2K/2H the stbt, and 2S the dash.

EDIT: oh and also, if you try a meaty 2K on knockdown, keep in mind ino can wake with vertical chemical love and punish you for it. if you have a summon out it might take the CL hit but I'm not sure

*EDIT: actually, you won't be able to get a CH if you duck under the chemical love. the only way to get the CH is to icespike at the same time.

[fabiano]

It's just a "I won't let you pressure me" match up, since both can turn your brain up side down, and they both can die within 2 or 3 wicked combos. For Dizzy, 5S is very useful there as I-no is an airborn character. If you can keep mid-distance, and use fish to block I-no's Chemical, Dizzy can easily take advantage.

[excelence]

that's if she's on the upper hand, I-no can hcl the fish summon on reaction as noted before XD

[fabiano]

that's if she's on the upper hand, I-no can hcl the fish summon on reaction as noted before XD

I didn't expect anyone to be dumb enough to summon a fish when facing an opponent!

That's why I said you must hunt I-no down from mid-distance with 5S, to counter chemical, dash,214P/H and take the upper hand. Anyway to prevent her to do a chemical to broke the fish, 421S should do. Closer, 2H FRC too should discourage her to move unwisely.

Dizzy has in theory, enough mobility and tools flying all over the place to prevent I-no to set her pressure game.

[excelence]

I didn't expect anyone to be dumb enough to summon a fish when facing an opponent!

That's why I said you must hunt I-no down from mid-distance with 5S, to counter chemical, dash,214P/H and take the upper hand. Anyway to prevent her to do a chemical to broke the fish, 421S should do. Closer, 2H FRC too should discourage her to move unwisely.

Dizzy has in theory, enough mobility and tools flying all over the place to prevent I-no to set her pressure game.

if u speaking that way, isn't that just the basis for her to fight ... everyone else?

afaik the majority of my recent match up(Ky, Chip, Johnny, ABA, Zappa, Pot, Testa, Eddie and Baiken) was runing that way

iirc corner Raw Fish Summon v

Ky -> SE rape

Chip -> might be suicide

Jo -> might also be suicide

ABA -> lock you down for good

Zappa -> as long as it isn't Raoh/Ghost... go for it

Pot -> Slidehead trade in

Tes -> Exe Beast

Eddie -> i wonder if he ever that far

Baiken -> might got slaped by tatami

[bizarro]

Your fish saves you from chemical love only if it's out already. The only situation where you have enough time to summon is after a knockdown... otherwise I-no will just c.love when she sees you trying to create distance and score a counterhit on you (short of full screen away). EDIT: if you see ino using note, you can use your scythe (236S) to eat the hits

[fabiano]

if u speaking that way, isn't that just the basis for her to fight ... everyone else?

afaik the majority of my recent match up(Ky, Chip, Johnny, ABA, Zappa, Pot, Testa, Eddie and Baiken) was runing that way

iirc corner Raw Fish Summon v

Ky -> SE rape

Chip -> might be suicide

Jo -> might also be suicide

ABA -> lock you down for good

Zappa -> as long as it isn't Raoh/Ghost... go for it

Pot -> Slidehead trade in

Tes -> Exe Beast

Eddie -> i wonder if he ever that far

Baiken -> might got slaped by tatami

Ha? if you use 5S constantly to press Baiken I think it will just turn to be a free counter match. And vs Zappa 5S is useless. So everything I said wasn't stupid,right?! Read the whole thing.

I am not try tell you it's easy to summon fishes:vbang: , but from my experience vs I-no players, I noticed 5S give them a hard time. Why? Because every time I-no needs to attack she must be in the air, and thanks to 5S horizontal range, she can't (then be careful to 41236S/H)

To me 5S is almost as useful vs I-no as vs Potemkin.

[bizarro]

5S = f.S? The multi hit one I'm presuming. Yeah f.S is powerful against Ino's dash, but if you're within f.S range Ino can just use her stbt (low slide), and if you're out of f.S range a chemical will kill you. It's still a gamble the way I see it, which means knowing your opponent. If it's your first time playing against that Ino player you're at a disadvantage due to unsafe pokes, and a "wait-and-see" mentality will just give Ino time to put more mixups on you. All in all I feel this matchup is in Ino's favor, does anyone know what the tier charts say?

[excelence]

@fabiano : i do read the whole thing, have you read I-no match up board? f.s was indeed rape her dashing, but must be use on reasonable condition like most of her offense option, if not ... read Bizzaro post, everyone can do a fake up

and looks like it's you who didn't read my post

I didn't expect anyone to be dumb enough to summon a fish when facing an opponent!

read : get a knock down and summon fish

Anyway to prevent her to do a chemical to broke the fish, 421S should do. Closer

read : buffer the air pike to make them hesitant

enough mobility and tools flying all over the place to prevent I-no to set her pressure game.

read : runaway games

and f.s v baiken

I didn't expect anyone to be dumb enough to *insert favorite attack*...

[fabiano]

Yes it's some kind of gamble, but it's worth try it! Nothing is for sure in this game even if you play Eddie. We're not speaking about SoulCA 3 where you take Xainghua/Sophitia and win no matter who your facing just because your whole skill list is safe! "then be careful to 41236S/H" = "I-no can just use her stbt (low slide)"....I agreed from sart So, Excellence if I told the same as you did,why is this? "If u speaking that way, isn't that just the basis for her to fight ... everyone else?"

[excelence]

i do try that stuff, but back then the I-No i go against is spamming machine gun hcl (>_<), the best thing to do in this match up is go on runaway games and get that knock down, and on neutral, if she try to throw a note, it's also a trade in for fish and stuff and that "wait-and-see" mentality, actually play major role on my match up, whoever strike first -> lose a round