chzchan Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 She charges 20% faster in neutral Yeah I was going to comment on charge rate. How did you get that 20% figure?
Zouf Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Yeah I was going to comment on charge rate. How did you get that 20% figure? Tested in training mode. You get 2.4 charges during the same time she gets 3.2 charges in the video. Roughly 20% Actually, more like 30% depending where you stand.
Airk Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 That's good, since the CP neutral charge rate was garbage. :P I wonder if 214X being jump cancellable will allow jump-special cancel shenanigans? It'd be executionally...challenging, but could be very interesting.
chzchan Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Tested in training mode. You get 2.4 charges during the same time she gets 3.2 charges in the video. Roughly 20% Actually, more like 30% depending where you stand. Did some testing myself. See, the audio cue for when she begins charging starts at around 3:12.40 and ends at 3:14.80. That is 2.4 seconds. If we take her current charge rate which is 250 Tsubakis/frame from frame 7 to frame 21 and 200 Tsubakis/frame from frame 22 and beyond then she should normally be getting 28100 (3500 + 24600) Tsubakis in 2.4 seconds which is pretty much 2.8 charges, not 2.4. So in the video, she actually gets around 3.4 charges instead of the 3.2 that you eyeballed. So she gets around 3.4 charges for charging for 2.4 seconds. 3.4 charges translates to 34000 Tsubakis. So she's getting 20% more charge just as you said. It isn't 30% definitely, more like 20.99%. If I use the same 20% figure and compare to Extend 5D charge rate which was roughly 5x the speed of what we have in CP1.1, CP2.0 5D will only be 24% the speed of Extend 5D instead of 20% the speed that we got in CP1.0-1.1. On another note, just looking at the video again, I really hate that they made sure not to show us what 2CC does now. That combo near the end 6A > 5CC > 214B > 5C > 236A > 214B > 22B is something I can already pull off now. I can't tell what the difference between 2C now and 2C in the video. The fact that they omitted the 6BB scares the hell out of me because I remember a tweet saying that 5A > 5BB > 5CC > 6BB > 236B > 214B > 22B doesn't work anymore. I hope they didn't make 6BB start up slow enough to no longer connect and that it is actually the 5A short starter timer that has been changed. Where the hell else would 6BB be used in a combo? Oh yeah another thing that really really scares me is the fact that 22B probably doesn't slide means that corner combos will have to be completely reworked from the ground up and we may be losing our j.236A corner oki. The distance that 236C and 236D leave you at on block seem oddly specific which is making me think. It is like perfect 5B range, but 6C is no longer jump cancellable so 5B > 6C, which is the only thing that can be done at that distance would not be worth it. Is it spaced that way so she has an easier time running away? God dammit I don't want to run away. Oh best thing ever would be if they made it so that you get cross though aura with 421D > 236C. I really hope that that is a thing. I wonder what 421D > 236D looks like on hit now. I wonder what 236D looks like on hit as well. They probably changed around a lot of knockback properties just based on the video. There is the spinning from 214B. I wonder what everything will do now. I like that there is more variation in what each move does now the regular and followup specials are being put in their own categories as seperate moves. I wonder if the properties change depending on what special you use before the next. Another thing to take note of in the video is that in the air, the j.236A projectile hits before j.214A happens. I wonder what they changed about it to make it do that.
Airk Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Is this your first version change or something? Relax a little, eh?
chzchan Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 I would have done all this regardless. This is fun for me because I just used to lurk and write all this stuff down on pieces of printer paper. Information is the best.
Level5-Chan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Got a friend telling me that a new vid for bbcp2 changes is here. I checked it. ... And 2 of her 3 big changes mentionned from the vid feels weird. Here is my stupid comments. 236C: A faster startup feeling. Cross-up seems ok. It's kinda? good that she has some space (like 1 character length). Feels like [-1 / -2] on block? You better not be unsafe on instant block. When crumble on hit, hard knockdown or opponent just didn't tech? Tell me: I wanna 2B the opponent on oki. 236D: No cross-up seems disappointed, but somewhat feels understandable. Feels like [+2/+3] or more on block (Welcome back, CS1/CS2), but the added pushblock really sucks. I mean, come on! The 421D > 236D especially has a pushblock, but I wonder if, because of the ~ [+6] on block, we can micro dash 5B/5C or IAD. jC for pressure? 214B: Less recovery feels good. Low float is scarying me. Hope they fix (reduce a lot of) her stupid followup recovery. 214D: Feels so weird to only jump cancellable on hit. Hoping for on block kind of stuff too. 214D > IAD j.CC juggle potential? But where's the head invicibility? 22B: After the 214B, is 22B really in max charge? if it is, then wow... that was fast. Although in the vid, fast teching / less to nothing slidedown is a bummer. Do we even have time to charge? j.214X: The air-hit hard knockdown (if it is), in my opinion, is probably the best thing that I want to see. I can do j.214x > RC > 5CC if hit in the air, which I always do at the previous versions. Sorry guys, but I don't like when the opponent went flying away after j.236a > j.214a. Don't hate me. The SMP changes: More combos and damages potential. It's a big buff. 5D speed charge: Damn, that's a lot of info, chzchan. Anyway, if it's really 20% faster, then yes, it is at the same level as Extend (or slightly faster than Extend). It is such a good thing because CP1 version really blows. In all, I don't know about the changes. In this video, I think it was a mix of buff/small nerf/bizarre stuffs. At least, she's getting better with some of her specials being safe on block, especially the 236D (I mean, come on! [-3] in CP1). Still waiting for the full list. Please rise up, Tsubaki.
zaeris Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Well 236 adds some easier side switchin combo and if faster a normal ground string would put your opponent in corner if you were cornered earlier. And I'm sure 214d wasn't jump cancel on bit before so I don't know why people feels it should be jc on block, didn't we get something new I general. Overall I'm not sure if this address her charge issue.
TheGreatReptar Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 If 214D is only jump cancelable on hit, then it's just a new combo part. If it's jump cancelable on block, it means it has some actual utility. Generally, most changes that only open up new combo routes I really can't care about because they don't actually change how Tsubaki is played, just what you do after you get a confirm.
zaeris Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I think 214d jc on block would be kinda broken, since it does leads to combo on hit and has B invule during frames 7-> and safe on block too would be very gay. As fir ultility, 236x series is a good start but I do feel she needs something better, hopefully data on her normal would give me hope..
Zouf Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I think 214d jc on block would be kinda broken, since it does leads to combo on hit and has B invule during frames 7-> and safe on block too would be very gay. You mean like Noel's 4D? except this one doesn't cost anything That wouldn't be broken as it still cost us ressources. Spending ressources to improve our mixup/pressure game isn't broken, it seems very fair to me. Anyway this change is just for combo route, doesn't change anything else
TD Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 If you ask me 214d jc on block would be underwhelming. It would just generally make the move safe, that is it. Would be cool if it hit low or high, and then 22d hit low or high so she could have better mixup and options against backdashes and jumps.
zaeris Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 well noel is the essence of having a bunch of gay move string together do you want to be another noel lol, anyway I would just prefer the if they added P and H to invul frame. There are probably better way to give 2144D better utility in neutral because I don't think anyone uses it anymore. Move should have an element of risk and return, you don't want to go into the direction of screwed risk and return ratio.
chzchan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 5D speed charge: Damn, that's a lot of info, chzchan. Anyway, if it's really 20% faster, then yes, it is at the same level as Extend (or slightly faster than Extend). It is such a good thing because CP1 version really blows. I am still waiting for these to be revealed man. I am curious. Also, what do you think the potential combo routes will be? well noel is the essence of having a bunch of gay move string together do you want to be another noel lol, anyway I would just prefer the if they added P and H to invul frame. There are probably better way to give 2144D better utility in neutral because I don't think anyone uses it anymore. Move should have an element of risk and return, you don't want to go into the direction of screwed risk and return ratio. I still use it. I still use your 214D corner reset all the time alongside my own SMP corner reset. I also use it in neutral to make 236A scale the screen if my opponent is not used to the matchup or to catch people who are about to touch the ground after I whiffed a 236C under them while they are jumping. It works on people who don't think to try to hit me with j.A. This would work much better if it had head invuln, though.
Zouf Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 It looks like they reverted back from giving us j.214D overhead. That's a shame.
chzchan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 It could just be a secret. I hope it is just a special surprise. Pretty scared of the Makoto matchup now that she'll probably be able to Space Counter DP-safe frame traps like delayed 22B after 5CC or 6BB.
Mcgreag Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 So with the ability to launch of standing hit what's the advantage of of getting a crouching hit going to be? I mean just being able to add 6B is not much of a bonus.
TheGreatReptar Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 You could always do 236X>214D to launch standing. Crouching lets you go from 5CC or 6B/6BB into 214B to launch. Crouching always has and still will let you launch someone without charge
Mcgreag Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Ah I thought it was 214B that was used, missed that it used a book.
TheGreatReptar Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Also I decided to actually read the text in the change video, and it definitely says that 214D is only jump cancelable on hit. I'm slightly disappointed
Velvien Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrsWN7pMjDM Some footage here; Tsu's only match is about 8 minutes in.
chzchan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Also I decided to actually read the text in the change video, and it definitely says that 214D is only jump cancelable on hit. I'm slightly disappointed Welp. I'm trying to think about why they would do that combo route-wise. Now that the IAD combo is kill, what would be the point? Like is there any point in just completely omitting 5C > 2CC? Did they change air move P2 values so we get more damage out of it? I guess we'll see what new combo paths arise.
zaeris Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Wondering if 214d j7d ad jcc will be a thing. Or maybe it's time to let iAd combo die Edit ic Perhaps 214d jump cancel falling jcc land 5c into stuff, but whatever
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