[XRD] Sin Kiske Gameplay Discussion "Playing with Poles"

[Fatalis]

Sin doesn't really have much in terms of Oki.

 

Most of the time after a combo you have to eat so you can do another combo later.

[MasterXDrake]

What's Sin's BnB?

[stickystaines]

For the air combo, it seems better to do 6H > (nj or sj) > j.K > j.S > j.6HS > j.236H

 

It's not that much less damage in most situations, you save 2000 calories so you don't need to eat after and there are some situations where if you go for the the double route into j.214S > j.236H they can air tech where the above route will grant a knockdown.

[chzchan]

Sin doesn't really have much in terms of Oki.

Most of the time after a combo you have to eat so you can do another combo later.

Don't you get to choose to either pole vault over to your opponent or back away and eat? I'd consider that somewhat of an oki because you can try to meaty with j.H's multiple hits maybe. There has to be something that he can do which can be used as ultra ghetto oki. Which of his other normals have the largest amount active frames?

I'm guessing that he will have a lot of trouble dealing with people who like to jump though.

[Skargust]

@DandyChippu After a combo ending in 236H you can late cancel into 214K[6] and do a safe j.S, even versus H Volcanic Viper. You can also do a meaty 3K, which combos into 6H on crouching/CH and makes many reversals whiff.

@MasterXDrake [50 meter]5S > 2S > 236H>RC> Dashing (2HS(1) > 5HS(1)) > 6HS > 623S (crit) > 214S>214K[6]>Late j.6H > 5S > 5HS(1) > 6HS > 236H 214dmg 5k cal

 

Additionally, it Looks like Sin has a little mind-game with 3K oki. Do it close enough to combo into crit DP, and they can reversal the meaty and hit you. Spacing it to make reversals whiff nets you a worse combo(into 236K>236H{1} loop or an air series). Looks like you have to convince them that the meaty is safe at first, then start doing Dash 3K oki when they respect it. You could even throw in 3K>YRC to be cheeky and keep them on their toes if they simply refuse to not DP on wakeup.

[stickystaines]

Additionally, it Looks like Sin has a little mind-game with 3K oki. Do it close enough to combo into crit DP, and they can reversal the meaty and hit you. Spacing it to make reversals whiff nets you a worse combo(into 236K>236H{1} loop or an air series). Looks like you have to convince them that the meaty is safe at first, then start doing Dash 3K oki when they respect it. You could even throw in 3K>YRC to be cheeky and keep them on their toes if the simply refuse to not DP on wakeup.

Not a problem in the corner though, since you can do 3K 6H 236K 623S

[Yukikaze]

Doesn't 3K> 6H only combo on CH?

[Linkexelo]

Hello guys !

 

I was an Order Sol player on Accent Core, and I try to find a new character (RIP HOS). So, I want to know if this character is similar to Order Sol (with the "hunger gauge", mix-ups...) or not. I'm a Hazama player too on BlazBlue, so I like zoning.

 

(And if you have a tip to unlock him quickly without paying... x_x)

[Adam0812]

Doesn't 3K> 6H only combo on CH?

And crouching

[Adam0812]

Doesn't 3K> 6H only combo on CH?

And crouching

[GreeniX]

On that note, actually. I just noticed that since 2K forces crouch even though it would logically only hit on standing opponents, you can get a critical hit combo from it.

 

(dashing momentum, midscreen) 2K 5K 3K 6H 623S(crit) 214S 214K(6) j.6H cl.S 5H(1) 6H 236H 214H/214K (4000 cal., 172 damage on Sol

 

(dashing momentum, corner) 2K 5K 3K 6H 623S(crit) 214S 236[H] 214K j.K 5H(1) 6H 236H 214H/214K (6000 cal., 183 damage on Sol)

 

The beginning sequence is also pretty nice on block, with 6H having great properties (jump cancel, special cancel, + on block) and doing a significant hit to the guard bar. I find this works well if you've conditioned the opponent with okizeme j.D so they don't block low or mash grabs too much.

[Skargust]

Nice find GreeniX, I honestly didn't even realize that you could gatling into 3K from 5K! The corner route is especially useful because 236K whiffs after 6H on Slayer, Axl and I-no, so this let's you still get a nice crit DP confirm.

Edit: Is their any interest in making a Skype/Line group or something similar?

[BladeOfJustice7]

So what's this supposed critical hit property this character has?

[GreeniX]

Only Hawk Baker (623S) has a critical hit gimmick. You need to hit the opponent with the center of your hitbox to get a crit, if you get it right you'll get a red hit instead of a blue one, and hitstun will be increased, enabling certain combos, notably a critical air hit 623S goes into 214S for a ground bounce. It's like Sol forgot all about clean hits in Xrd but Sin is like no problem grandpa I got this.

 

So uh. When you use polevaults, you retain air options, right? And under normal circumstances, jump P, K and S are all jump cancellable on block, right? However, when you combine the two of them, it doesn't work. As in, polevault in, get j.S blocked, and you can't jump cancel it. But good news, guys! It works fine if you blockstring into the polevault and you jump installed during the blockstring!

[Kinkuli]

His 214S also seems to have some kind of clean hitish property. If you hit with the head of the pole the dmg is a bit lower and the bounce is bigger compared to hitting with the middleish part of the pole.

[Yukikaze]

His 214S also seems to have some kind of clean hitish property. If you hit with the head of the pole the dmg is a bit lower and the bounce is bigger compared to hitting with the middleish part of the pole.

 Bounce is from hitting someone in the air.

 

If you AA someone none CH you can get a charged Driver

[Skargust]

Kinkuli is correct, tested it myself. Point blank 2D>623S(crit)>214S does 103 dmg, while 2D>623S(crit)>RC>Walkback>214S does 94 and bounces them higher.

[Kinkuli]

Yeah, should have specified i meant on air hit.

[Dreiko]

Only Hawk Baker (623S) has a critical hit gimmick. You need to hit the opponent with the center of your hitbox to get a crit, if you get it right you'll get a red hit instead of a blue one, and hitstun will be increased, enabling certain combos, notably a critical air hit 623S goes into 214S for a ground bounce. It's like Sol forgot all about clean hits in Xrd but Sin is like no problem grandpa I got this.

 

So uh. When you use polevaults, you retain air options, right? And under normal circumstances, jump P, K and S are all jump cancellable on block, right? However, when you combine the two of them, it doesn't work. As in, polevault in, get j.S blocked, and you can't jump cancel it. But good news, guys! It works fine if you blockstring into the polevault and you jump installed during the blockstring!

You do indeed retain them. I got to play this finally last night at locals and what I liked to after knockdown do is polevault into the air fireball OD and then airdash for fuzzies obfuscated by the fireball.

 

 

On a sidenote, Sin is so much more fun than I expected. The first setup didn't have him so I just used Sol (old HOS main here...) and while he too was fun Sin was like 10 times more fun to use...and I didn't even know how to use him at all for the first half of it lol.

[GreeniX]

Actually you can airdash after polevault but you can't double jump, so, never mind, it works as normal. So yeah, jump install and you'll be able to double jump after. Could be useful to be incredibly annoying.

[chzchan]

 

Combos

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYrjFkYunSk

 

That's a lot of damage out of a super with statup invuln in a back facing corner situation. Will this be the new meta in the Sin matchup? Don't get RTL'd?

 

I'm guessing it has slow startup or something so it is easy to bait because that is kind of ridiculous.

 

I'm ready for "And he takes the round with yet another wakeup RTL."

[Dreiko]

 

 

 

 

That's a lot of damage out of a super with statup invuln in a back facing corner situation. Will this be the new meta in the Sin matchup? Don't get RTL'd?

 

I'm guessing it has slow startup or something so it is easy to bait because that is kind of ridiculous.

 

I'm ready for "And he takes the round with yet another wakeup RTL."

 

The startup isn't that slow. You can combo into it from a 2D anyhow. Also, even if they block it you can still do the followups so it sometimes will crossup someone once or twice, I've often had people bait it only to then get crossed up and get hurt a bit anyways. (though no confirm into more comboing was possible from that lol)

[chzchan]

Then let blocked RTL on wakeup with back to the corner into a second RTL from full tension run free.

[FatalCounter]

Thank you guys for all the posts. I don't have the game yet, but I will get it soon and get full SIn mode. I read almost all your stuffs and I think I understand what I am about to play and how. I can't wait!!! The Lab is gonna cry!

 

Edit: Can someone tell me how is his health compared to Sol or Faust (because they got average) and does his backdash looks strong as it seems? BTW I used to main Faust in previous GGs. 

[stickystaines]

I believe his defense is at least weaker than Sols.

 

Found another combo route on certain characters. 6H > 2P

 

6H > 2P > 5S > 5H(1) > 6H > sj.KS6H > j.236H - (Elphelt) 195dmg 1kcal

 

Don't need CH or anything. Just found it against Elphelt and haven't tested against other characters yet, i assume its against lighter weight characters. This route seems good if you like to do 6H in your block strings and they get tagged but not necessarily CH.

 

Edit: It is now the lady killer combo

 

Elphelt

May

Millia

I-No

Ramlethal

 

While i'm at it, tested 6H against characters crouching too.

Cant hit with 6H in neutral:

Faust

Chipp

Millia

 

Cant hit with 6H in combos:

Faust

May

 

Fuck Faust