Teaching GG

[doragonkoroshi]

I'm pretty much convinced that I'm not a very good teacher for this game. I think my problem is that I overwhelm people with a lot of information right off the bat, and don't know how to ease them into it. Part of me says that it's impossible to to teach the game unless people are willing to look stuff up for themselves, but I still think there is a lot that you can show them on your own before it even gets to that. So who has had success with teaching people how to play this game, and how did you do it? Is it possible to get somebody into it if they have no prior experience with fighting games? If so, I guess there needs to be a different approach for teaching somebody who knows how to play Street Fighter, and just teaching somebody from the ground up.

[4r5]

Yeah, you don't want to overwhelm people. I just start playing with them. Get a feel for what they do know, then teach them what they need to know next. But I always give them a chance to figure it out themselves and try to wait for them to ask first. An investigative quality is important. If they don't have that, then, yeah, you shouldn't even try to teach them. But people wanting to learn a fighting game aren't exactly a dime a dozen, so sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth and beat that inquisitive nature in to them. Even when they do ask, I try to answer their questions with another question. I'm really just trying to teach them to teach themselves. You want people to figure out their own mistakes and learn from them. That kind of self-reflection and adaptability is part of what's needed to be really good at fighting games, or anything really. I try to avoid just showing people stuff as much as possible. I also just don't want to have people come to me for every little question. Most people who have prior fighting game experience don't need any help. They can figure alot of stuff on their own. You can give them a jump-start by informing them about some esoteric technique or pointing them to a resource and they'll handle the rest themselves. If they're totally noob, then it can be hard. "Controlling space & pressing the advantage" are obvious to some, but, apparently, not obvious to all. These can be difficult concepts to teach, especially if you've never consciously thought about them yourself. It can be doublely hard to teach the basics in Guilty Gear. There's so much happening all the time, it's hard to focus on just these core elements. Tripplely hard, depending on the character they pick. Some characters are so skewed, that it almost becomes impossible to teach certain concepts. But at the same time, if they're not going to use it, then maybe they don't need to know it yet. If I taught them how to teach themselves, then when they do need to know it, they can know it. I dunno how successful it's been, you can try asking whytesakura or coma. But I'm not wholly responsible for teaching/guiding them, no one person is. They're the product of the whole scene, dustloop, and their own hard work. Emphasis on 'hard work'. If people aren't dedicated, then don't waste your time. I mean, some people just want to learn to pass the time, while others want to learn and get real competitive. Good rule of thumb: Give back to them as much as they put in. You never know, that person how's just looking to shoot the breeze may find himself getting sucked in.

[Silmerion]

I'm a bad teacher too, but in a different kind of way. I usually give new players a few rounds to warm up to the system, get used to directional inputs, etc. Then I let loose a little, usually beating them fairly handily. I always figure that babying new players is giving a wrongful impression of the game, and some of the cooler stuff in GG can't be done while playing like a scrub, so I always think I'm doing them a favor. Even when I'm not pressing them, I have an inherent advantage because I understand the game's mechanics. But then, after a few rounds, they quit - because I'm trouncing them.

What can I do here? I don't want to baby scrubs, but I want someone in my area to pick up the game....

[Blade]

For me...and really, this goes for anyone starting out with a fighting game really...understanding that there are two levels of gameplay is key. Once they understand that, then they can decide whether they like it or not. By "levels" I mean "reasons to play", some do it for fun, others do it competitively. If they understand that and just need to know other things, then walking them through it isn't too hard a task in my experience. Training mode is a great place to start since you can let another player control the training dummy while they get used to controls. Also, if they feel uncomfortable with inputs at first, it might help to turn on "Input Shortcut" if you have AC for Wii or AC+ for PS2...this allows you to do inputs without having to worry about diagonal input confirmation. So a 236 move is just 26, etc. Once that's established, you show them things as they appear onscreen...I usually explain in this order: Healthbar>Counterhits>Guarding>Guardbar> DAA>Dust+Homing Jump Combo>Faultless Defense>Perfect Guard>Slashback> Damage>Bursts>Tension>Forcebreaks>Overdrives>IKs>RCs>FRCs>

[4r5]

If they quite from getting trashed, then you probably didn't want that kind of player to begin with. Don't worry about it. If you're really desperate for players, then you may need to make some compromises. Hopefully you don't live out in the middle of nowhere, 'cause then the answer might be to live some where else.

[Silmerion]

If they quite from getting trashed, then you probably didn't want that kind of player to begin with. Don't worry about it. If you're really desperate for players, then you may need to make some compromises.

Hopefully you don't live out in the middle of nowhere, 'cause then the answer might be to live some where else.

I live exactly in the middle of nowhere. Seriously.

Anyway, I appreciate the input. I'll just head back to training mode.

[whytesakura]

damn yooo 4r5 and moroha are the best teachers out there. kenji didn't really tell me shit he just beat my ass til i got the message. he is a good teacher too because he taught me how to read opponents better and how to respond to certain situations correctly. they taught me alot guilty gear and to be more self sufficient only giving me a headstart. man i can't believe how long they put up with my scrubby ass before i actually became good. first with testament then with i-no (man she was the worst; beating after beating really just hurt so much).

[Ragnarok]

If they quite from getting trashed, then you probably didn't want that kind of player to begin with.

Well, if they are really total new to the game, you dont want to completly destroy them i think. Beat em hard with fancy combos sure, but not using cheap tricks you would use on someone your lvl. Guess i see it more as beat em hard to show what the game allows to, not for the sole purpose of tearing em apart.

As for teaching, i usually first talk about the defensive abilities. Explain how to FD, that attack from ground when you jump must be FD, say there is slashback possibility but to avoid use it at first, Blue Burst, DAA and generic 6P.

When they're able to think about it remotly often, teach em about offense. Usual pattern of P > S > HS > special at first, gold burst and its low use when you play someone better than you, random facts about moves being invincible/ungrabable to use in pressure, air to ground and IAD combos.

And only at last i talk to em of RCs.

[Digital Watches]

I don't think there's any way to truly teach anyone this game. You can give them information, pointers, competition, whatever, but there's just shit you have to teach yourself, and you can't really be good until you do. But then again, I'm from the school thought that trial by fire is the best way to learn. Sure, if they have a question you know the answer to (Is that invincible? Why couldn't I break that throw? Could I mash out of that?), don't be a dick, but your own personal theory bullshit? They can subscribe to it or not and still get good. How to understand what's going on, predict, react, act accordingly? Don't bother trying to teach that. And playing easy could just end up giving people a big-fish small-pond problem. But above all, if you want players to stay, be nice to them socially. Some people have a problem with losing, and that's fine, they'll either get over it or quit, and there's nothing you can do about that. But almost no one wants to spend hours playing a game with people they don't want to be around. TL;DR version: Don't play down to them, answer anything you can, be competitive, don't be a dick.

[Abominable K]

damn yooo 4r5 and moroha are the best teachers out there.

I wish Moroha would actually answer my damn questions instead of flippantly responding with, "She's unbeatable, don't bother".

[4r5]

Forward those questions to me.

[Destin]

I am actually only decent at teaching mid level guilty gear myself. But I think one of the best techniques I have used is explain something to people, then if they don't believe you or don't use it, put them in situations over and over where it would be there only option. Once they start catching on, continue to overuse it in you game, but with a gradual sway back to normal. Next time you tell them thats the solution to their problem, well they usually fall right into it. Teaching people can actually be alot of fun, surprisingly. Seeing them catch on to ideas thats you had to come up with on your own is really neat. It's especially surprising to me how quickly people catch on to the new ideas. All this new blood to guilty gear going out and winning tournaments, crazy! I think the only old men left are Elven Shadow and AKA.

[whytesakura]

i tried. im terrible. im better off answering questions

[Senkei]

I do it better in writing I guess. It's just hard to teach a person about it unless they want it. Your drive to be good at this game has to be high. I saw something I thought was tight and I acted. But when I had to learn I just got the piss beat out of me and figured it out on my own. Oh and ask question's, hopefully the response will be good.

[whytesakura]

man i got my ass beat for like a whole year. A WHOLE YEAR of getting stomped on. at this point in order to get even better i need exposure to more players. there are times i wish i had an srk so badly. people overall who are nice will get good responses. i, of course am not going out of my way to teach people things. they gotta want to learn.

[doragonkoroshi]

OK I think everyone agrees that there's a certain point where you have to stop learning the game for them, and let them learn it themselves. I think we also agree that it's hopeless to try and teach the game to someone that just doesn't care, so let's focus on the following. 1. Is it possible to kill someone's interest in this game if they were otherwise interested? If so, how? 2. Once you get someone to try the game, is there a way to encourage them to stick with it?

[4r5]

Different strokes for different folks. What might encourage one person, might discourage another. You could perfect one guy, and he'll stomp away, while perfecting a different guy only makes him want to play more.

[whytesakura]

if someone had interest and quit means they didn't have enough interest to begin with. either that or they would rather learn a new game coming out and get good at that while its still fresh. some people can't handle the beatings

[Destin]

When I started playing the game it was against good old kono walchuck. Mother fucker would beat me 50 times in a row, then I would take 1. Then lose another 50. I was backdashing out of mist finer traps 1 week into playing the game though with that much of a beating. But hell, losing was fun. Still is fun. If you don't have fun losing when you try your hardest, then you are going to have a tough time getting into the game now.

[Doomscyther]

Ive only had one successful grad from my GG school. Kurumster aka Steve aka best MI in your world. After teaching many people GG or other related games for years, I realized something. Don't teach people who cant take criticism, and who don't understand how to learn on there own. I had a bad habit of babying new players for anything, just hoping they will get better. With kurumster it took 1 week, heck thanks to him I learned more match ups and was able to play the game more which revitalized my interest in the game. How I see it, if they don't improve in any aspect every week, drop them like a doren combo.

[faultydefense]

Ive only had one successful grad from my GG school.

Kurumster aka Steve aka best MI in your world.

After teaching many people GG or other related games for years, I realized something. Don't teach people who cant take criticism, and who don't understand how to learn on there own. I had a bad habit of babying new players for anything, just hoping they will get better. With kurumster it took 1 week, heck thanks to him I learned more match ups and was able to play the game more which revitalized my interest in the game.

How I see it, if they don't improve in any aspect every week, drop them like a doren combo.

And Doomscyther is my best pupil, just look at him go folks.

[thegame4ever]

From my experience, I share some points with doomscyther, like teaching the right people not babies, and who have their mind set to it. I started training this guy with Testament since he plays pretty much every fighting game cept GG (even that crap Battle Fantasia) so I took him on, referred him to some testament vids and gave him oki and pressure tips. When it'd be me getting like a 20+ win streak then end playing, he adapted and my streaks went up to 12, then he kept getting better using such things as tickthrows (sets net on oki I wake up block he walks towards me and grabs). Sadly he didn't stick with GG since he found BlazBlue much easier, but he was very promising and I was happy with my work. Remember, you learn the best when you're in the battlefield.

[Shining Aquas]

I try to teach people the game, but it seems easier for me simply because most of the people I know are really good at processing high levels of information easily. It's also easy to get people interested in GG by comparing it to other fighting games and explaining the main positives to GG, for me that mostly entails the sheer level of variety in the characters and the playing styles, and also the degree of balanced gameplay that makes the game more fair than most. It seems to be working because I've gotten well over 20 people into Guilty Gear, and at least 8 of them went out and bought Accent Core afterwards. I feel that I'm doing okay for not having ever touched the series until Accent Core.

[feri]

It's also easy to get people interested in GG by comparing it to other fighting games and explaining the main positives to GG, for me that mostly entails the sheer level of variety in the characters and the playing styles, and also the degree of balanced gameplay that makes the game more fair than most.

It seems to be working because I've gotten well over 20 people into Guilty Gear, and at least 8 of them went out and bought Accent Core afterwards. I feel that I'm doing okay for not having ever touched the series until Accent Core.

Care to elaborate cause I'd love to be able to convince a few people myself.

[Blade]

What the hell does "david sirloin, and snake shirt" have to do with Teaching GG?????