Zedar90 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Arc have uploaded non-watermarked HD version of the opening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RwMVaug31A
LaowPing Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Can't wait to get the game to at least convince people that terumi is B-......... I'm making Terumi one of my mains in BBCPE just to help the cause. Ragna is definitely S-Tier material, he was already a fundamentally good character in CP1.1 and he got buffed on his already strong areas (damage conversion) and others (blockstrings/mixups) where he wasnt so hot. And while most of the cast got nerfs and weakened on some areas, Ragna has just got even better than he already was, the perfect recipe for a top tier character. I think CPEX is balanced enough to have only 3 tiers: S, A and B. So what i'm hearing is that Terumi is B tier. Mission accomplished!!! XD Seriously though, I feel like Ragna is A tier. I consider S tier to be somewhat over powered characters. Ragna is definitely stronger; his Gauntlet Hades seems to make air conversions easier and his damage is a bit higher. I don't think he's S-tier just yet but he's easily top tier in my opinion. After checking the Japanese Overall Nationwide Dan Rankings regularly over the past month and a half and following the fluctuating placements of each character, this is the general impression that comes across based on the nationwide rankings data. In no particular placement order within tiers S (Top Tier): Jin, Lychee, Nu, Hazama, S-/A+ (Very High): Teiga, Bang, Kokonoe, Azrael, A (High tier): Reriusu, Kagura, Hakumen, Tsubaki, Makoto,Vu~aruken Hein, Carl, Ragna B (Mid tier): Rachel,Taokaka, Platinum, Celica, Noel, Amane, Izayoi, B-/C (Low Tier): Mu, Bullet, Arakune, Lambda T (Terumi Tier): Terumi I don't feel like you can use that to show who is good and who isn't. A tier list usually assumes that the characters are being played by people of equal skill. Some people will simply have preferences that they follow. Those people might end up being really good and as a result, end up at a very high dan. Fenrich was one of the highest dan players in 1.1 if I recall (even if you exclude the fake ranking he got) and that didn't make Jin the best character in the game. There's also that fact that some characters aren't played very often, like how no one plays Mu in NA but she's seen as top tier.
mAc Chaos Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Hakumen at A tier? All the JP assessments put him around B.
Magaki Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Hakumen at A tier? All the JP assessments put him around B. The TL posted by TagerTime isn't really the usual tierlists based on characters' matchups and potential but just a ranking based on the number of high dan players representing each character. Whether you consider it to be credible or not is debatable. While in a sense, it actually reflects how hard it is to be successful with a certain character which is perfectly illustrated when you look at the top tiers and bottom tier, it doesn't seem that accurate at all when you start looking between them (Taokaka same tier as Celica and Amane ? Just what ?) meaning that other factors like character popularity, execution and gameplan should also be taken into account making it far less accurate than a normal TL. But then again, whether it's credible or not is debatable and entirely depends of one's opinion. PS: Also guys, you almost all forgot to mention Valk and his wjA doing a great return in CP2 on the top tier seat.
TagerTime Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Hakumen at A tier? All the JP assessments put him around B. Well i put him in A because he is doing a heck of a lot better than everyone else in B tier as far as the overall rankings is concerned. He is 17th dan and has been sitting comfortably in the top 20 for weeks. Unlike the others in A tier, no one in B tier has been anywhere close to breaking into the top 20 or reached 17th dan within the specified past month and a half time frame when i started keeping track.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 It should be noted that there should be some parameters used when you make up a tier list(ease of use, how hard is it to win with them, tools, etc etc) as well as information based on what most top players would be saying. Tagertime's list is...ok, but that's just overall ranking; it doesn't really have anything else specific about it. So I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Airk Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Yeah, don't you hate it when people make tier lists based on measurable facts instead of people's random BS opinions? ^_^No idea why Tong thinks the game is closely clustered enough to have only three tiers. Looks like the usual "close spread in the middle with some crazy outliers" that we've gotten in pretty much every BB game since CS2 or so.
MoneyD90 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 IMO. It's hard for me to disagree with Tagertime's list because it's based on results of each character being played at their best. His list goes on 100% fact and not what players "think". However, I'm open minded and am willing to listen if someone can say why his listing is not correct.
Airk Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Oh, yeah, and that's totally white costume Tsubaki. Looking forward to that being canon in the next game, because it looks way more badass than the old beige, and she needs to ditch the black.
Angry Guy of DE Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I'll admit that I haven't been watching as many videos of 2.0 as of late but with that last tier list... Is Kokonoe still being used by people? Most videos don't have her as often as other characters in her tier or above. Outside of the Graviton change (not a minor change from what I was hearing) the buff of 3C > 5A allows more graviton-less combos to not put a strain on her stocks. Tsubaki ranked higher than Izayoi, I thought Izayoi got some buffs in 2.0 or did Tsubaki also get some buffs to help. I guess its nice that Makoto and Kagura both seem okay in the middle of the road of this list but who got hurt the most in this version?
StylisH Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 That list is pretty suspect @DE That's one of the reasons why it's suspect, not to mention Mu and Tao's placement. Also Hakumen and Kagura?!
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Yeah, don't you hate it when people make tier lists based on measurable facts instead of people's random BS opinions? ^_^ Its almost like...Tier lists are based on the opinions of the highest level of play. This is why I said I hate talking about tier lists here, people keep thinking of them as end all be all instead of a purely subjective thing :P
Angry Guy of DE Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Well atm we can only go with arcade tier list which pretty much goes with: This character has the most high ranked players or... This character among high ranked players to a certain rank has the highest win % Console version will let people spend more time with characters to see what they can do and a more concrete list will be made. Though Hakumen and Kagura in the same tier, how nerfed did Hakumen get?!?
FKGunBlaze Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Tsubaki ranked higher than Izayoi, I thought Izayoi got some buffs in 2.0 or did Tsubaki also get some buffs to help. Tsubaki has DAMAGE now.
TD Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 They aren't entirely subjective depending on how educated they are, yet it could never be 100% truth. the best tier list is one collected by many educated, unbiased players who can break down the matchups at an above average level of intellect. It's simply less likely to be wrong in parts because it would be based more on the facts than the opinions. It is entirely feasable to have a legit tier list for any game, so long as it is well thought out, contains enough people to be relevant, and factual. One or more of these requirements usually are not met, because games need time to develop and a dedicated lot of players who can contain and spread the RIGHT information.
Fame96 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Tsubaki has DAMAGE now. I thought that would never happen, but team blue proved me wrong.....
Yazumatto Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 It's hard for me to disagree with Tagertime's list because it's based on results of each character being played at their best. His list goes on 100% fact and not what players "think". However, I'm open minded and am willing to listen if someone can say why his listing is not correct.His reference point for "data" started a month and a half ago when the game has been out for what, 5-6 months now? Me being a fanboy of the shining beacon of light that is Goro (or Hikari no Senshi since that's been his tag for a while now), kept track of his dan ranking every now and then. Since November, Makoto has been #3 on the overall dan rankings and was #2 near the end of January for a solid month. According to TT, he started checking just around the time Goro let his ranking drop (he fell to about 15th dan at one point). Only recently did he get back to top 20 (17th dan, #17). Based on his metrics, Makoto would be S-/A+ (yikes). Besides the time reference issues, there are different areas in Japan with different levels of competition. Some people could just be playing to the competition ceiling at their arcades and get their 15th-17th dan rankings that way. I also wouldn't put it past some players to pad their rankings by playing against less skilled players. There are also players that perform well beyond the expected norm for a character. Makoto is widely considered the worst character in CP 1.0 (and CSEX and CP1.1) but Goro and Matsu has consistently held 17th and 18th dans for a majority of CP 1.0. She's the main reason why I put more scrutiny on dan-based rankings. For three years, Makoto has been the actual worst character on the roster but she has a god of Blazblue representing her along with a former top Bang player. It's just... weird. Dan rankings are not a bad metric for tier placement but I would take anything read with a grain of salt.
Anne Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 You can't really make a list based entirely off dan btw. You can use rankings to inform your decision a tiny bit though. Considering top 3 usually looks like Jin, Valk, and Hazama in whatever order, and chars like Tao and Izayoi are A tier, it's worth considering other things. Izayoi is just a hard character and wasn't popular before, and there are no god Tao players right now pushing her rank up, etc. You guys sure talk about tier lists a lot.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 And of course ya know, some players are simply better despite who they play, Goro and Fenrich being prime examples. Not that Makoto or Jin are bad characters per se, especially the latter, but its pretty clear the aforementioned players are a cut above the average person who plays them. You guys sure talk about tier lists a lot. How else are we supposed to complain about which characters we hate the most.
StylisH Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 If I start to see Izayoi complaints I'll probably die laughing
Anne Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 Yeah, you can get one or two stupid good players to put a dent in things. Guys like Goro also just give you good data by themselves. He had 18 dan before because he was insane, but his results tapered off and at some point he was looking at dropping the character for Kokonoe. Now he's back to being seen playing more with a high win rate and placing in large tournaments with Makoto. It's just one player, sure, but you can get a lot of "where can this char go competitively" type stuff out of following stuff over time like that. This is also assuming you're looking for things that matter at a super high level of play. A strong player can make stuff happen with a bad/unviable character, even win weaker tournaments(shout outs to the USA). When we say unviable, we mean no matter how good you are, the chances of you winning a tournament at the highest known level are more or less nonexistent. Even then, that's assuming consistency over time and blah blah blah. I generally don't like to call a char not viable unless they're extremely bad on top of having consistent showings where the char actually can't win like that. That's actually pretty rare and extreme too. On the opposite end of things you just study and see what strengths are letting chars win and why, and start to look at placings and value. Sometimes shit is simple, like Jin is probably S tier because of what he does + combined, consistent results from multiple players. Sometimes not so much, we've already seen weird stuff with Nu moving some, Izayoi flucuating, etc.
D.R.F. Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 As long as there is no Q tier or some nonesense like that... (rooting for you for once Terumi)
StylisH Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 As long as there is no Q tier or some nonesense like that... (rooting for you for once Terumi) ....or Unholy Tier either (looking at Jin, Ragna, and HAZAMA)
Anne Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 As long as there is no Q tier or some nonesense like that... (rooting for you for once Terumi)This is slightly off topic but I wanna point out Q isn't actually /that/ bad.The tier you're thinking of is Twelve tier.Also Terumi sucks.
StylisH Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 How does Tsubaki doing more damage make her a better character overall? I thought she needed a lot more than that or maybe I'm missing something.
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