Hellmonkey

Damn I wasn't planning to go, but if there is hnk I might have to reconsider

In GGAC it is actually quite difficult to reset someone with an air-grab out of the corner (it used to be higher range and you could option select it in safer ways in previous versions of GG), so I wouldn't go for this option against better players very often. Against May and Bridget I use the delay tatami combo from a 2d. 2k > c.5S > 2D > delayed tatami> sj.PD. Against baiken I actually go for j.K if I do launch them without meter, otherwise I may do a 5H -> kabari to catch mashing or suzuran to try and throw incase they are looking for a counter. You could try and reset with a tick-throw or dust or any number of other options. You can always throw in a youzansen when you're near them on the ground for pretty guaranteed damage+meter, and you set yourself up for 2k/2d later, which also leads to more unpredictable youzansen RC mixup, but don't use this too much against characters that will get a huge return without meter (slayer, testament) or anyone with enough meter to land something big. The only way to learn how to air grab is to try it a lot. Get the computer jumping at you and get used to throwing it 100% of the time. Air throw is really powerful because it is 1f and GG has a lot of movement options, but it's quite hard to explain how to use air throwing precisely because of its reactionary nature. I do recommend learning option select throwing in general, and that applies to both your air and ground throws. So use 6P+H (same frame) on the ground and in the air most of the time you want to throw. That way even if you're missing the throw (happens all the time in a game), you can learn how to combo from your antiair j.P that you get instead.

Please keep the thread on topic for the upcoming GGAC release. Thanks!

Not every Dizzy player knows how to deal with someone constantly trying to air throw them, so I think it's still worth discussing for every matchup. It's a strong option if for nothing else than how it can demoralize, and can net her some good damage and mixup. I agree with all of your points about Baiken's antiair options though, thank you for writing it out!

You need to watch better Baikens play. Try to find footage of typical AC baikens: maruken, oppia / oppai, rakku, sharon, few others, and emulate what they do. I think that's the best next step for you.

Typically, baiken loops in the corner using (some combo) > ground tatami > FRC > j.SD ad j.SD. In general, Baiken's maximum damage will come from using 5H and j.D as much as possible in your combo, but 5H can only be used in some cases. Instead of doing ground tatami > FRC > j.SD, you can combo with the right spacing: (gatling) > 5H > tatami FRC > iad j.D. If you do iad j.D fast enough, it will make Baiken fall quickly to the ground, where you can pick them up with a lot of moves, like a quick ground tatami that relaunches them or a dash 5H tatami that you can FRC and continue from. Her loops are corner only. If you are out of the corner bring them to the corner using j.D 2366K or take your knockdown using just j.SD and lay a mat on them or slashback dash j.H (if you slashback during your iad it goes further, easier to cross up with, I really like it for this situation) or any other meaty.

I just explained fastfall in the previous post with 5H tatami loops, and included the combos using them. I don't understand what else you're asking for. You cancel your airdash momentum with j.D and it makes you fall faster. It can be done after a tatami with a raw airdash j.D or with a quick j.PD after airdashing.

I would also recommend learning her kabari combos. meterless: kabari > followup > sj9.D | sj9.SD | sj9.PSD 50%+: kabari > followup FRC > 66 sj7.D FRC > 2366k > sj.D (midscreen) | sj.SD | j.H j.tatami > take them to the corner or finish loop The followup FRC cuts out the extra prorated second hit. You get some invincibility, this is one of my favorite uses of meter since it can be good on hit (combo) or block (bait and safe). Also you do not always need or want to do your airdash tatami with 2366K. It can almost always be done with 66236K if your hands are fast enough (I prefer this method sometimes, especially higher up, since you can delay your mat to whenever you want it and not have to worry about losing your buffer)

Learn how to double-tap. It's really important for this kind of game. The difference between a 3 frame and 6 frame window is massive. You should make sure your j.D -> 2366K is as low as possible, and try adjusting the timing and playing with that part if you aren't having any luck. You can also sj.IAD to help. Yes, sorry for not being more precise. In fact, there are two combos in particular I would recommend learning. One you could easily start from a 6K 6H to get the right spacing. Keep in mind you can run as well to help fix your spacing. Part of the reason I think it's worth learning the combo is so you go through all of Baiken's useful chains that go into combos. Those include 6K>5H, 5P>2K>5S>5H, but keep in mind you can land it from other stuff like a late air tatami that lands on them or a counterhit 6K from different ranges, so your 6K or 5S could be anywhere in the combo. A 25% meter version would be 6K > 5H > tatami FRC -> iad j.D (this j.D will be kind of high, and you want to j.D instantly after dashing so as to fall as quickly as possible) -> ground tatami (you can connect just in time before they get OTG) -> sj.PSD ad SD A 75% meter version would be 6K > 5H > tatami FRC -> iad j.D -> 66 5H tatami FRC -> sj.iad j.D -> 66 5H tatami FRC 66 sj.SD ad j.SD I recommend practicing on testament or slayer to begin getting these types of combos down, these definitely are character specific. If you do a j.PD against the opponent as quickly as possible after your air dash, you get the fastfall momentum on your j.D because you carry the momentum from cancelling your airdash with the initial j.P. This means you can fastfall and f.5S j.D to tack on free damage at the end of your combos in the corner, especially easy against character hitboxes like slayer, testament. The trick to this combo is run-jumping in close enough to get your j.SD in the right spot, that is what her corner looping is all about. Feel free to throw in any j.P or j.K or j.S interchangably in your wall loops before a j.D. It changes a lot based on distance and opponent, but in general the easiest options are airdash j.SD or airdash j.SPD after your first j.SD or sj.SPSD or sj.PSD np

One good way to deal with air stuff is jumping, and instant blocking directly off of the ground. This lets you fall to the ground and recover right away, allowing you to punish or at least end up with plus frames in some of those tough situations. The nice thing is, this is easily option selected when you go up for an air hit or throw, just make sure to hold back immediately after jumping every time.

If you are standing still and try to jump into your opponent with 96H, you will probably fail. You need to have good movement, using things like FD brake to set up situations that you can run under them as they approach by air and instant airgrab or cross them up.

Reading a jump would mean trying to air throw without seeing the jump. Reacting to the jump would mean seeing them jump and then instantly throwing them. Low air throw is an extremely good general anti-air as long as you're under them in the air.

If you want something else to play with, try maximizing your corner loops by throwing in as many 5h tatami iad j.D as possible. These are actually your best realistic 25% or 75% combos in the corner, although they aren't used very much. This will give you a good feel for the different timings of j.D there are (slight differences depending on when you j.D after your dash, what height it is, whether you superjump or not). Learn how to quickfall with airdash j.P j.D to extend your loop without meter. The lightest characters can be looped with silly stuff like j.D airdash j.D too, there is a lot of variation. Cancelling your airdashes as early as possible is actually an extremely important skill for GG because it extends your airdash, which has a lot of offensive and defensive applications. This is a pretty good way to learn it IMO. Another important combo, similar to the Ouren and kabari combos, is Baiken's ground combo against a tall standing opponent. Link c.5s or f.5s to j.D, and 2366k to pick them up, even in the corner. The implications of this are big because she can consistently combo from a distance (into tatami on crouching, or into j.D on standing), which she typically can't do.

Correct, 5S can be used after a kabari hit, or you can use 5p5s (probably 5k5s and 5k j.P as well) if you're closer in to make it easier. The only 'good' bait-burst dust combo I've really found is 5D -> delayed homing jump -> catch them with an ID j.K, which you can do from WAY lower because of j.K hitbox and homing movement. You can confirm the j.K press and after the j.K you can again bait the burst. If they don't you can jc forward and continue with j.SD like your typical high dust combos. Youzansen doesn't make a good ID because it stops your air movement, try not to use it in combos.

It's not the only way to combo, but you can use the S followup, then do something like 2k > 5s > 2d or 2k > 5s > j.D, then take your unblockable hit. Let me give you a word of warning though. Baiken's youzansen comes out in 9 frames, this is about 1.5-2x as fast as typically possible with human reactions. She doesn't gain meter super fast and she needs it for her combos as well. This means her meter is a very precious thing not to be thrown away. Feel free to explore her setups, but I'd like to save your time and tell you it's practically never worth using baku followups aside from trying to throw them off or ending a round in very specific circumstances. Practice things like baku CH followups, crossup youzansen, impossible dust combos to bait burst- these will help more. I also fixed the combo above for the 'anywhere' version, but basically you take them to the corner and loop them using low j.D tatami in the air if you want to spend the meter. Also worth nothing that the combo from an Ouren CH is very similar to your combo from a far and low in the air kabari hit (this is a great far anti-air). She gets both of these all the time, so it's really worth nailing down those low air combos.

Your best combo from an ouren counterhit will vary greatly depending on spacing on the screen, opponent's hitbox and weight, available meter and how much meter you want to use (saving meter for a mixup will lead to higher average damage). The basic formula is Ouren CH > 66 > f.5s > j.D FRC > iad tatami > and this part will be heavily determined by your spacing. Generally a iad (this iad is easiest super-jumped)> j.S > j.D FRC > tatami, which will sometimes hit them low in the air in the corner so you will want to delay your jump.. there are a lot of tricky situations, but this is my bnb. If you're going for a combo with baku, I use S baku, which can combo into 2k while they are still standing, otherwise I take the knockdown. If you are going for a combo, baku itself without a followup will lead to more damage most of the time, and I don't think a normal baku hit is really worth confirming into followups. Edit: Fixed combo

There is wide screen support using side bars. It wouldn't make any sense to stretch the game, they didn't recode the whole thing.

Most jumps in Guilty Gear are 3 frames long. There are a few 4 and then a couple more exceptions. There are two methods to 'instant air throw'. One is to throw back in the air, and one is to throw forward. To throw back in the air, simply hit 7 (up-back), move your joystick or slide your finger to 4 (back), and immediately press H. Similarly, hit 9, 6H to throw forward. Chances are if you are at this point, your execution is significantly slower than timing your movement and attacks within 3 frames of each other, so try to do it as quickly as possible. (on a joystick, you can get your input down to a consistent window of 2 frames or in some cases even 1 frame, on a pad this is much more difficult) Keep in mind Baiken's air throw range is not that large, and that GG favors characters slightly under the other character to win air-throws. Also, Dizzy has j.2S which will beat out your airthrow. Other characters have quick air moves or air moves with big hitboxes that will prevent you from getting close enough. Try to throw using back air throw near the corner (which will throw them forward), to get a wallbounce combo.

Really like the idea. Stickied. As always, anyone can feel free to post or PM any questions about Baiken or GGAC.

I'll try to make it up for Sunday if I'm in town.

Use super-jump if you don't FRC. So the input is tatami, down, up-forward, and immediately P. Pretty tight timing. Hitboxes and distance matter as well- make sure you're close enough. Similarly for tatami FRC j.SD, you'll probably want to run-superjump. It's very lenient after the FRC. Both are easy enough intermediate players can do them 100% of the time, so keep at it. Also, j.D can be delayed after j.S. It's an extremely important part of her longer air comboing. Hope that helps.

Just to clarify- I was referring to finding something that works and sticking with it. Every character can be played effectively in different ways. Due to the relatively small group of elite GGAC players, gimmicky play is rarely punished correctly and is great to throw in your game. Thanks for answering Sophisticat.

GGAC happens to have a large cast that can all viably win every matchup, and who are all very unique from one another. I believe this is a rare phenomenon brought about by extremely well flushed out game mechanics and versions of balancing. In most other games, including the other versions of Guilty Gear, I do not believe this is necessarily the case. Tier lists can give players a great representation of how they can expect to fare against similar-level opponents, ideally focused toward high level play to minimize human error due to a lack of understanding of the game. This approach just doesn't work for GGAC.

Nice post, 100% agree. It's ultimately the human component that makes these lists trivial for GGAC.

Outdated lists from when good players still put forward an effort to rank characters in the game. We see that in GGAC every character can absolutely dominate through player skill alone, even at a very high level. Japanese players are also scattered and rarely play outside of their area. This led to a disparity in the tiers early on (like you mentioned, it would be ridiculous to say Millia is weaker than many characters). These days, most have realized it is impossible to rank the characters meaningfully. edit:grammar