Kiba

C'mon Dusk it's not like that lol.

Really useful stuff. I was going to ask about how to move around with Valk against Tager and your post answered my question. Thanks, much appreciated.

Ah so he was on stream! Damn me.... T-T

I dunno it's like people only concentrate on the very good players. Back in CS1, I used to watch for example Stentatsu and Dusk Thanatos and I learnt alot. If players only do this they will very likely be missing on other things they can pick up from watching others.

Note: You can watch and learn from nearly all Tsubaki matches.

Pengin (Valk) vs Moro (Ragna) Pengin (Valk) vs Jin Ragna/Tao vs Valk Arakune vs Valk Noel/Ragna vs Valk Valk vs Makoto/Hakumen

You just need to keep moving in this matchup keeping out of the air like many of you have mentioned. His 2C is still a decent AA despite the lack of invulnerability it has. If you want to abuse mobility, 214X/236X (236C and 214D especially) are the way to go. If Valk makes contact with these moves it's usually our favour right?

Just a little more info: As Sans pointed out you do not want to end up in the corner against Hakumen. One of the things to watch out for is Kishuu? mixups in particular when he's packing alot of magatamas. Don't get too obvious with bursts since Hakumen can counter it with D. How humiliating is that? On your wakeup, you're better off blocking. Hotaru beats reversal DD and all DPs including the D version, which gets Hak a free fatal. It's times like this where I wonder why exactly those specials carry projectile properties. Doesn't really seem to add up. Hakumen can beat our 2C with his J2C(or it might be J2A) if he doesn't IAD too deep on us.

Well that's worse for me since you've figured I like to jump away alot from 236D!

Yea, you're right. With that said, it'll come down to who knows the other play better. For me however, I wouldn't like to be put into a position where Tager can 360 me.

Think of it like this. Any string Tsubaki does to you, such as 5BB, can be IB - 360'd. Tsubaki however isn't really supposed to be pressuring Tager because of the many holes in her strings. Any 236X move she does on you can be 360'd regardless of IB. If she does that, unless it's on hit, she'll just be helping you. They can be 360'd if they try to attack, and then when they realise it, they try to backdash or jump away. This can be beat with AC (jump away) or 5A/5C (backdash).

I've found it to be a really effective method. Although do be aware that late input and not properly measuring distance can get you 720'd. It happened to me the other night. So we basically have more tools to make Tager's life miserable. I'll take it.

Really? Maybe I'm just hindering Valk's 2C because I always get hit out of it.... On a side note, roughly how much damage can you guys get off your CH 2C?

Valk's 2C isn't that good for an AA. It's lack of invulnerability allows it to trade with most others things (or everything) when timed right. Heck, I still use it for an AA, even though I really shouldn't be :3

Your pool is actually jokes.

From a personal perspective I MAY use challenge combos 9 and most likely use 10. You will probably most likely use 5B - 5C - 236A alot too (mission 3). I tend to stray away from that combo though and use something like 5B - 3C - 236A because I have an easier time pressuring my opponent with wolf. So for example if they were to aerial tech backwards as I do 236A - 9C I could use the command grab or apply additional pressure with J.A. If you were to use 236A, You will either have to block because anything you do in human form will most likely get beat, and against the better players they would probably outpoke you if you were to wolf cancel and try to attack them. The second combo for mission 5 may be useful because for now as you're learning him it will be you standard wolf combo. Again this is coming from a personal perspective. When I was first learning valk I used challenge mode as a basis. I'd play with others and when I got more comfortable with doing those basic combos I'd look for more advanced ones, that is watching combo videos and match vids. It's better to work your way up though so you're familiar with the basics, such as being comfortable with wolf movement because you will need it in all your matches. You will need to familarise yourself in the different ways he can cancel moves into the wolf such as his 6C (before hit), 6B (on hit) and his special moves. You also need to become comfortable with his 8 way dash in wolf mode and be able to move around without burning so much meter. This Valkenhayn Tutorial may be of great use to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kALO1HQalAY Valk has no viable DP options. He has 6A which has full body guardpoint but it's not active until the first 5 frames of the move. In most situations its useless, but there are ways in which it might be helpful, such as using it during specific moves during Noel's drives but that comes later. Valk also has his sturm wolf but you need 50% heat to use it. Being said, most of the time you will have to block, or even barrier block and look for options where you can backdash/jump out of player's pressure. He only has 4 primers so you can't afford to always be on the defensive. Valk isn't built for that. This is where matchup comes in. Sometimes you can abuse the wolf's movement to try and get in such as against Litchi without her staff. However, sometimes you will need to be patient and rely on human form mostly such as against Tager maybe.

So has anyone seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzKGhjTMRuQ Kaqn (Tsubaki) vs crew I just realised how good 22C - 22A is...

Thanks guys! 2C beats any of them cleanly as Sahgren pointed out earlier. In the corner we're talking like 5K + meterless so the Noel will need to be careful about their wakeup options. I just always do it because I don't want to get into the drive bullshit.

Ok I'm going to elaborate what I said in my above post. It's useful so be sure to look out for the chance! If Tager uses 5D - 236B, you can beat it out with 5A only. If you IB the 5D HOWEVER, you can use 5B - 6CC - 214D into IAD combo which is easy 3.9K midscreen. Alternatively you could use 5B - 214D/22D/236D. The timing for getting 5B in is quite tricky, you can't mash it out otherwise it's very likely Tager will score a CH. You need to input it just before Tager slides forward from his 236B. ALSO, if you IB the 5D, you could even use 214D instead :3. You could also use 214A/B. If he's further away 214A works extremely well, whereas 214B works best if he's very close to you. 214D works in both situations however. The input for the 214X has to be done very early. Just make sure you pile stocks!

Despite 5B/5C being good for footsies, Noel can get around it by using 3C whilst trying to get in. A good Noel player may guarantee 4.9k meterless and corner carry...

I figured Lunar didn't use 6A because Solar knows how to react it. Then said, find other ways to mix it in. For example 5C - RC - 6A/6B - 6A. Since it's easy to react to though I wouldn't advise using 6a alot unless your opponent can't block her overhead which isn't the case here. Batousai covered everything but I'll add my 2 cents. The 1st set of matches: Solar has a habit of using 6C - 5D on block. If you know the player well and your reactions are good you can 236C/D. Again it comes down to knowing the player well, because there were times Solar would use 6C - SoD. Midscreen the worst is that if you guess wrong you'll be fataled and sent back to square one where Mu would try to hunt you down with lasers flying. If you guess correctly however, you nearly always almost got her into the corner. Solar was also using 6B - SoD on block, in which case you could DP it if you're feeling brave. Alternatively she can be thrown out of the overhead but that requires reaction. The 2nd set of matches: When you got Mu with the air throw you could've done 6C - 236D - 5B - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B to leave yourself in a better position to apply necessary pressure. Each time you use the J.214C combo enders, depending on where Mu is on the screen you give her more time to be able to set up steins and make your life more miserable.

Ha! Just watch what Lambda does after a 3C or 6C After any of them, if she goes for 236D, you can use 236X (has to be done quick) which gets you a CH. 236D CH - 5CC - 623C - J.214A (Whiff) into stuff... If she does 214D, you can super jump into JC into stuff. If she does the one that takes longer to charge, well it has to be a reaction thing. 236X works but I mean you wouldnt really know which one she does unless the player is predictable or you're psychic :3 If she follows up with 236X, it can be DP'd, especially 236A/236C. Sometimes she may even followup with a DD, so watch for her meter and IB to gain dat meter...

Airk come now please don't be like that. I mean the whole point of posting here is for discussion right? Besides, I enjoy reading your posts. You're better than that /offtopic

Why don't we discuss some ways to approach her? It's difficult as hell. Anything I try in wolf form gets beat by either her 5C, 6C or 2C. I try something like 7C - 7C - Wolf cannon and that seems to work, rarely I may add. It's a nuisence when she has lasers flying around since it really stuffs our mobility...

I strongly wouldn't advise blocking his 6A. not only does he have a high/low mixup but he can 360 you too :/ (Yes he can do it w/o getting a purple grab) If you can, use 3C which nets you a CH. If he's near the corner and you have good reaction skills you could 236B - RC - 2C into stuff. Alternatively, you could use wolf form to run backwards to avoid being heavily pulled in when magged. Oh also, he can 360 our [W] 5C - JA/JB...