tolore

Klaige: While I agree with you on many points, the top tier is not nearly as busted as you make them out to be, before SBO the only top tier character I would have put over GGAC eddy was v13, but her preformance in sbo was so poor i'm starting to rethink that. I do agree that throws need to be reworked, they are just a stupid way to tack on damage to someone who isn't paying attention right now. They do almost nothing to break turtleing, as even the green window is long enough to break on reaction after you factor in start up(this is added to the fact that like in all games you generally have to walk forward or do something else that makes th e throw predictable if it's being watched for), which is IMO what throws are supposed to be for. I'd make lal throws worse on hit, but make thme much harder to tech. Overall I'm pretty happy with how the tournament played out, I can't believe an arakune player won with his worst matchup being so prevelant, there were 9 rachels too which is also a bad match for arakune. edit: also bang and litchii's in top 8 was pretty awesome. It would have been nice if there was more hakumen and tagers around. non made it past round 2.

i find you have to delay a little bit after the last bit of the 6C loop before you jump 6A, if you do it too early the A bug still hasn't recovered from the end of the 6C loop, and you actuall yhave a decent amount of time to jus twait. Also make sure you hold C for a little bit from the last j.5C otherwise the C bug will knock them away from the j.d.

don't use kabari against axl or testament either, if they are paying attention th ey can counter it on reaction.As far as keeping the pressure on you can also end strings in tatami mat and blue roman it.

hakumens anti air also CRUSHES j664B, and he can on reaction counter/jab 6a, and even if he doesn't you best mixup jump cancelling 6a and going to 5d, because he can counter between 6a and 5d. He can also counter/jab between 2a's, and between 2a and 2b. This mixup is incredibly dangerous at several points.

A good hakumen can on reaction counter 5C, I thought he was just outpredicting me, then I started mixing up the timing and he still got me every time. He then admitted he was reacting to it.

I play stick on every game but guilty gear, I don't feel like it holds me back at all, there are many characters I think it would, but baiken is not one of them. I also don't use macros and I still hit my FRC's.

I still say it's character specific, i too sued to play pad(still do for GG, I've been playing baiken since X, her pad play is ingrained into me now). Some characters are fine on pad, but people like eddy, faust, charge characters, arakune, aoko etc... are all much much easier on stick.

I meant IMPORTANT people. go gunblaze somewhere else!

that wasn't really shady though, that was just unfortunate.

C pool was almost as bad if not worse than B, we had Jan, flash metroid, wuku, watches, moroha, and probably some other people I'm forgetting. In any community run system with no higher power watching over them there's always a chance for shady dealings, luckily I don't think anything like that has happened at any of the north west tournaments or evo's i've been too.

It's entirely true that he'll lose to him later if he would have lost to him early(barring fatigue or stress building up and such). But what happens if play A loses to player B right off the bat, he gets like 64 and places last even though he may be better than every other person in the tournament. Lets just say theres no randomeness to who wins a match each player is better than the other and theres 8 people, 1 being the best, and 8 being the worst and we random them. If 2 fights 1 in round one and eliminates him then 2 is in last place even though he's the second best. player 5 on the other hand played against player 8, then player 6 and ends up in the finals. This means the tournament results didn't even come CLOSE to matching player skill, which means your tournament mode is a failure. now if we were to take this example and apply seeding to it(not this kind of seeding will never happen because you probably won' thave each players skill level quantified), the ideal situation is this. 1 vs 8 2 vs 7 3 vs 6 4 vs 5 this way everyone gets the exact place they deserve. Obviously seeding can't work out that well because it's impossible to quantify each persons skill level, and also just because 6 is worse than 5 doesn't mean he can't beat 4. But seeding gets us closer to this perfect scenario and eliminates the situation where 1 fights 2, 3 fights 4, and 5 fights 6, in that situation it's a tie for last with the 2nd best player, the 4th best player, the 6th best player, and the 8th best player. Assuming you agree the goal of tournament results should be to best reflect players skill then this outcome should be unacceptably bad to you.

Alright i'm going to try and simplify this as much as I can. Fact 1: Tournament results should reflect at at least a base level the skill level of the participants, IE the top 1 is the best player, 2 is second best, 3-8 are better than 9-17 are better than 18-32 etc... Obviously this doesn't work out exactly because of the randomness of the bracket. Fact 2: Double elimination(single is even worse) without seeding sets up possibilities that very good players will place below people that are worse than them. Fact 3: Seeding makes it much more unlikely that top players will place below people they are better than. Can we all agree on that? there is no bias one way or the other in those statements those are as far as I can tell cold hard facts. The question then becomes, is seeding worth it. The answer is yes. What are the disadvantages of seeding. Some new players who would probably lose early anyways may get sent to losers bracket, where they will fight other people who lost(note almost guaranteed to be someone of similar skill level since no/few top players will be sent to the losers bracket this early). Advantages: 1) no/few top players in the losers bracket. I know when I was new it was very disheartening to lose a close match to a somewhat even opponent, then fight one of the best players there in my second losers bracket because a top player lost right off the bat to another top player 2) top players cannot get eliminated before their time this way(if they lose it won't be because of the randomeness of the bracket, it'll be because they aren't good enough) 3) more interesting finals/matches throughout 4) good players play more matches, which means more people get to play against the good players which is good for everyone To me all those advantages far outweigh the disadvantage. also NOT seeding by region is nearing retarded, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars traveling to evo to fight people I play everyday. In addition the outcome of the match comes down to how well you know EACHOTHER instead of how well you know the game/your character/their character. NO ONE likes traveling really far just to play their own scene, i assume most people also don't like eliminating their friends from the tournament.

Second place is also decently non random, third though, you are guaranteed third once you fight in the winners finals which, if all the good players end up on the same side of the bracket can put a non skilled competitor in third.

then why'd you say it doesn't matter other than first place when, even ignoring the fact that placing high generally makes people happy, you get money for third(which is entirely possible to guarantee without fighitng anyone good if hteres no seeding). Yes because they're better, in an elimination tournament you gotta EARN the right to advance, the entire system is based on the better players moving up, pitting the better players against eachother early means they will not move up. But if you DIDN'T put the top tier player in the bracket with all the new players that means a new player(i assume by new you mean less skilled) player makes it to the semi finals, gets raped by the actual top player(who knocked out the other top tier player), get 3rd place and goes home. Instead of the better player beating all the new players, then having a legitimate match. If I went to a tournament and it was a bunch of people who never played before, elven shadow, and latiff. I'd leave as soon as I saw the elven shadow latiff matchup, because the tournament is already over at that point. They SHOULD naturally walk up the bracket, probability dictates that if there's only one or two people who can possibly beat you in a tournament, that you will not fight them until the later rounds when more people or eliminated. But there's still a random chance that you will fight the 2 people who can possibly beat you right off, a random chance that someone who should be near guaranteed top 3 placing based on skill will get last place is not really acceptable in my opinion. The thing is the way seeding works the guy who gets curb stomped by the top player is someone who probably would have lost to the top 32 players, which means his chances of coming out on top in hisi first couple matches is low anyways. Additionally, say he's some new guy, or someone we've never heard of who happens to be a top 8 player, but not a top 2? you've got losers bracket to come back. I lose round 1 or 2 of almost every tournament I go to and I still make top 5(evo I was top 5 of my pool and I lost round 1). I disagree on this tremendously, what is not fair is placing someone last, or close to last when they are one of the best people there because of random chance.

A. pay out is to top 3, B. Maybe people actually like to like, play the game? why should the top players get knocked out early while less skilled people get to play more matchs. C. if placement other than first doesn't matter why do you care about seeding, it doesn't matter right? I personally place top 5 in almost every regional tournament and I'm pretty proud of that. It'd be discouraging if I fought round 1 other top 5 player, round 2 other top 5 player and got last place. Just like it'd be discouraging for them if I won both and one of them got eliminated right off the bat. that's what we try to avoid with seeding? edit: seeding also spreads the best players around, since they don'ot start near eachother, that means pretty much everyone GETS to fight a top player at some point, unless they get double peaced out pretty quickly. I personally enjoy fighting top players and I think everyone should get the chance to.

I always thought the purpose of seeding is so say if the top 4 people in the tournament got placed righ tnext to eachother it's quite possible that one of the top 4 could be eliminated in round 2. That means the tournament results are not an accurate representation of skill. now obviously this could still happen anyway, the only way to REALLY gauge everyone's skill would be a giant round robin. Since no one has time for gian tround robins we use double elimination and try to make sure the most skilled people do not eliminate eachother, letting less skilled people win. without seeding you could have a situation where, if it were say a 64 man tournament, you can have the 32nd best person get third place. That really is acceptable too you? edit: for the harvard analogy it's more apt if you say, throw all the names in a hat and then grab 2 at a time and one of the names gets in. You've got a 3.8 gpa and a bunch of extracurricular activities, but the other guy has a 4.0, a bunch of extracurricular activities, and knows the dean of admissions. some other guy with a 3.0 and no extracurriculars get's paired up with a hobo off the streets with no schooling. That is not a fair system, and it's why seeding exists.

it depends on the attacks, taking abstracts example of j.d against say v-13. If v-13 shoots you with a sword as you j.d her, if the sword hits, then the j.d hit's she'll be cursed even thoug hboth of you got hit. If the j.d hits, then the sword hits she'll curse and then uncurse when you get shanked.

oh wow, i totally though i was on the last page when i was reading page 8, I feel dumb now. Thanks for answering my question before i asked it, then showing me where it is!

what exactly is dive canceled j2a/b/c, is it the same as other dive cancels air forward dash->j1a/b/c? and what does it do exactly?

I like taokaka, arakune is fun, but he doesn't feel like a 'real' character. Not saying he's cheap or easy, but his mobility is really wierd, he basically can't combo off his ground pokes without meter, his dash is odd, and half his normals feel like specials(leaving me feeling like he doesn't really have normals). Taokaka i think, keeps the good mobility, has good normals, and has really good ability to combo off of ground pokes.

I play pad baiken and I do pretty well, that said the only reason i play pad baiken now is because I've played her on pad so long it's hard to switch. I play all non guilty gear games on stick now, stick is IMO better. Charge characters and characters with negative edging are MUCH easier on stick, other than that there are small advantages and disadvantages to each. For baiken only it doesn't really matter, I haven't ever felt held back by the pad with her, the only thing that's tough is TK yozansen, and that's probably tough on stick too. Instant air dashing is also a lot easier on pad.

You should post in the baiken forums! it's generally not too active but we do read it daily and respond if something comes up. I don't have time right this moment but i'll watch your vid later and post some feed back!

If i remember correctly it IS harder than FRC, I don't remember what my cues for it were back in the day, it's mostly easier to just frc the j.d.

I probably suck now, but i'd be up for some games over zbattle, or next time we're all int he same place(you coming to nw majors this year?).

I used to play this, I main tallgeese. This game is surprisingly good/fun for any who haven't played it, I highly recommend it. It was way ahead of it's time and is still good.