Litherain-XIII

GGs to niii-saaan and NYAGGA58. Had fun

I honestly dont think noel is required to do crush trigger combos when she does really decent damage anyhow. Its not necessary imo, but maybe in certain combos it might be then. Im really liking the crush trigger option for noel hers does look relatively fast perhaps faster than her standard overhead by maybe a few frames. She does look more rushdown oriented in CP than she is in EX and not as reliant on drives to get the job done. The more Mori does this for her, the more happier Ill be ^_^

j.2C isnt completely useless yet until we "americans" get down to business in CP. Im suprised to barely see crush trigger being used in general outside combos anyhow i wanna see what j.2C is lik with RC behind it. its gotta atleast net her close to 3k hopefully

Overall she seems a bit more solid than she was in the past and more stable in certain scenarios imo like midscreen and ackward hit confirms that she couldnt capitalise on as good as she can now in CP. Chamber shot really help her out in those regards. her 2D isnt as reliable as a reversal option now but does have its uses since it changed. She does seem to have some potential oki setups based on her silencers so far either by hitting them with it in the corner or whiffing it midscreen in the middle of drives (usually after d.5C). We dont know all her new gatling properties we seen a few on hit but on block is still a mystery but nontheless they do help her out in the long run. As far as crush trigger pressure or mix-ups i cant say for sure but i assume it would be pretty strong since theoretically speaking she could crush trigger guard break into 6B > 5K combo which is pretty big for a trade of 25% heat assuming the 5K meterless combo works on mostly everyone in midscreen and corner. She better but due to other characters changing as well her tier list rating did shift to B. If you wanna see the list thats up for japan in the jbb site this is what they have currently for the time being. Tier list S: Taokaka, Hazama, Hakumen, Jin, Litchi A+: Mu, Azrael, Valkenhayn, Relius A: Ragna, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Tsubaki, Bang, Platinum, Nu B:The Others (Izayoi, Noel, Bullet, Tager, Amane) B tier list is not in a specific order i just typed for visual but everything else is just as it was posted.

ive seen 5B > 6A in general several times overall in spacing situations when the 5B hit but not on block.

Ok something caught my attention for a bit. This vid of noel doing 4D on hakumen's 5C in the corner. If i remember right, his 5C should beat 4D regardless of 4D's timing (i just checked and it beats it clean everytime so far in EX). Soooo..... 4D got better...? O_o wonder if it can beat other stuff it normally wouldnt now... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C28JB42i7yU#t=714s

well if CP does have that P4A tech functionality of holding down the tech button then this would be legit (hopefully it is) also in other videos when the same combo pathways of RB > j.2C, i did notice that the opponent does start to drop a bit before j.2C even hits the opponent as if they would normally drop anyways after RB because if they didnt then in some cases j.2C could have potentially whiffed since the opponent would have simply air teched slightly earlier before then. if you watch out for this scenario you should eventually see what i mean about the positioning of the opponent just before j.2C hits them they slight start to descend downwards infront of noel.

well there is a recent video that gives a decent reason to believe that it is likely that she can combo after a TK RB in CP. Do note that this was off a 2A started but notice how low the opponent drops down after RB and imagine if this was simply a CH by itself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IND-eboaOhc#t=301s

Yo shadow you should add me on PSN i sent a FR maybe we can mess around alittle in a room with combos or whatnot.

Ill do a test on RB's damage on CP and EX and make a comparison. Ok if you look at noels combo 6A > 6C > j.5A >j.5B > j.5A > j.5B > RB > j.2C on her first day combo video the damage of the combo was 1683. without the j.2C included it was 1610 (j.2C damage by itself is 400 as indicated by her jbb site.) i tried the same combo in EX (without j.2C of coarse) and the damge on there was 1680. So now we got CP =1610 and EX =1680 (btw RB in CP hits 5 times instead of the usual 4 times on a side note...) Also i looked a little deeper in the jbb site for noel and found a listing of her normals damage and for RB they put down 1210 whereas in EX its 1320 so in short RB's damage got nerfed but seems more stable in combos (from a non-whiffing a RB hit standpoint) Side note on damage comparisons on other normals: 6C(2) in EX is 750. CP is 650 j.C in EX with 3 hits is 570. CP is 560. If j.C hits with only 2 of its 3 hits in both games its 410

i would assume it works as the EX version with the 5A > 6C variation

Specify double 6C... do you mean 6C(2) wallbound in the corner?

5D is faster in CP. it got back its old speed in CS1

it works on an air borne opponent in CP but ground hit confirm no it doesnt. of coarse all of those work in general before the 6B comes into the picture yes. but 6B itself (unless its an air juggle combo going on) is too slow for it to connect on a ground opponent even on CH otherwise they would have been doing it by now especially R-1 himself. im fairly sure he would have done 2a>6c(1)>6b>5d... if he had the chance (should have been plenty at this point in CP). i hope it does work it would be awesome but i have my doubts

Well technically no it doesnt. Even if you tried 2a>6c(1)>6b on normal and CH on both standing and crouching opponents they dont work on EX and since CP has reduced hitstun in general i highly doubt it would do it on there either. Also on the 6B meterless combo, i honestly dont know if its character specific but it does sound plausable on paper given that you would figure more noels would use it more often unless some of them simply just dont know how to do it in the first place. However its unlikey since it is japan....i guess. On a side note, Im curious about corner 6C(2) > 6B > 22B part of some combos. Usually noel wouldnt be able to do 6C(2) > 6B close in the corner she would have to be far from it to be able to follow up on the 6C(2) with a 6B. I wonder if 6C(2)'s recovery frames is faster now because of this thats allowing her to connect the 6B... or if the wallbound from 6C(2) lasts longer than usual.

True delaying AST isnt the best idea in a realistic match unless you can do that consistently otherwise stick to cross under method. I only used the delay method a few times before but some were unintentional in the past. But i picked up on it and sometimes i would do it on purpose when im lazy dont feel like doing 446C and end up 4D > d.6C > delayed AST for the hell of it since i can get away with it lol

Ok the 2 problems you are having is the fact that bangs hitbox makes it funny for you to do 4D > AST so usually you kinda wanna try to delay the timing of 4D to allow bang to fall just a little more lower to the ground before you do 4D > AST otherwise if you do it regularly it tends to whiff more often meaning the timing is too fast on him so just delay it a bit on him. the Second regarding the crossunder 6C you already know the reason. you got the main concept down for that part you just have to cut the dash shorter to do it right. Its like trying to do the 446C input faster overall before bangs starts to fall back down after AST. You can practice this situation specifically in the corner by doing 6A > 6C(2) (both hits connect and wallbounds) > 6C > 4D > AST > 44 (this notation is more like tapping 44 instead of doing 4 > 4 Holding on the last 4 longer than necessary just to make sure you run under them) > 6C. Or you can say its like tapping 4 > 4 > 6 relatively faster than the way youre trying to execute it. It takes some practice but thats they way its done to make her do the dash at a faster and shorter distance under bang or any character shorter. Also another way to practice this is by doing 6A > 6C (first hit) > 4D > AST > 446C in the corner. This is just a quicker way to get to the specific part you're having problems at with the cross under 6c. Another Alternative to do this (although it is somewhat tricky to do and can be hard depending on execution) you can delay the 214D (AST) input when doing 4D > AST or 4D > d.6C > AST. Make sure that the 4D hits with the opponent relatively close to the ground before doing the delay 214D input IF you are doing 4D > AST. If you are doing 4D > d.6C > AST then only delay th AST (214D) input in this scenario. If you do this right she should do AST with a slight delay and hit the opponent with it but they will still be in the corner when it hits without noel crossing under them in the process. this would allow you to do combos without the need to do 446 inputs to cross back under them to continue the combo as usual but this is more execution based imo but you welcome to try it out of you like if you wanna try a different method.

Well i would have to say the same. I never intentionally use it for its invuln frames. But whenever i did used it by accident (usually cuz someone tried to cross me up when i used 4D that turned into a 6D) it worked every time for me pretty much and it makes me open my eyes here and there like "did that really just go through that move.....wow.."

yeah it still does retain the knockdown effect while having an EX 2D arc

Yeah its the same old 2D in EX in OD so it does return back to it origional state and d.2D also seems to be relatively the same kind of 2D if not the same 2D from EX

Well i have mix feelings about 2D. i kinda miss having a cross up 2D (now that i think about it i rarely used it lol) but then again it does look like it can be usefull against zoners.

It will be easy honestly since we can always do d.4D > d.6C > 214A now since the d.4D will auto force stand on a crouching opponent regardless of how CH 5C hits them either standing or crouching since 5C on a crouching can lead to the d.4D force stand eventually and the 5C into 214A would work into a good combo assuming you wanna go that route and risk the possibility of it being blocked instead but i would go 5C > 6B > 5D > d.6D or d.6B since the overhead force crouch will be corrected if it hits you can d.6C > d.4D > d.6C > 214A and if you decided to go d.6D for a low you should still net a decent 3k combo off it in general this is assuming the 5C > 6B > 5D was blocked in general otherwise if its on hit should be an easy 4~5k to transition into. also CH 5C > 6B connects as a red beat so i personally dont think 5C > 214A is necessary to do overall

I figured DC knew this already unless you were hitting 6B into a drive or the opponent got hit with something while he was already crouching anyhow.

Nope it doesnt. try doing 5D > d.6B on a dummy in training mode standing in EX or any other bb and see what happens

So now d.6B forces crouch on opponents on hit and d.4D forces stand-up on crouching opponents in hitstun on hit which now allows us to manipulate how our opponents are getting comboed in general. This i like alot i approve of this greatly