Osuna

Hate Kanji love Tager. Kanji's anti airs are either too slow to be really used as such, even more situational than Tager's, or a DP with high risk and low reward. While some people say the DP is worth all that, I don't agree. Tager's 5A was much better (+ instead of -7, much better hitbox), and he could sometimes press buttons at mid screen unlike Kanji. I also could buffer 360A twice in a block string without getting a super the second time. Couldn't get crossed up neither. I could also jump forward to block projectiles, backdash was relevant in BB too. Tager can combo off of lows pretty well too, which Kanji can't. Kanji's damage in generally is only good with assloads of meter and/or a fatal. Any advantages Kanji might have at full screen are nullified by so much of the cast having such good zoning tools and mid screen he is laughably bad. Upclose he is still high risk. Aside from the corner carry his super throw is worse than 720 was (shorter range, fewer active frames, slower in a game that is faster on average). In the air Kanji needs to use either really slow moves or his j.A which has a Terrible hitbox (Weird too, it won't normally his crouching characters) or his tackle which is only very situationally legit (and takes meter/burst to combo off of). Also if I IB something and then tap back early for another IB I don't randomly get a backdash that can't be reversaled with Tager. Tager can combo off of his air throw and anti air throw too. His C moves and his B chair dives are slow enough to be overheads and they aren't, which makes them just reactionable and useless outside major punishes and combos.

Is it character specific at all? I seem to recall trying it and straight up Missing the last 2B mid screen.

I can't test right now, but anything you do immediately after a whiffed k.214a/b/ab will be facing whatever direction you dived in, so be careful what you do after crossing someone up so that it doesn't get you in trouble.

It isn't as scary but it can be a Lot safer and resets the mix up if you're successful. It would be a lot better if Kanji could do a half decent combo off of lows, but we need to wait for the 4th game to get that.

You pressed too many buttons. You need to pay a lot more attention to her options, location and intentions. There's a long list of things to not do for any combination of those. You got hit more than a few times for attacks that had no chance of touching them. Kanji's j.214A/B/AB is a little extra gimmicky unless you yomi some pretty specific stuff, Air to air it'll lose to pretty much everything, air to ground she can chain to crouching moves on whiff so that sucks too. You tried to bait something with a cross up j.C? I'm not sure what that was about, her R action hits really high and would have won. 236D only very slightly limits her option and it a pain to get out in the first place. Also like... you get right next to her a lot and go for throws a lot. She got a massive advantage by ducking gimmicky j.214AB's and jumping away from you when you get close. You didn't need to use 214D nearly as much. Yukiko's normals are pretty slow, most of the time a 214C would have worked just as well and reduce the disadvantage. Aside from that work on confirms, CH j.B can be followed up from usually and you almost lost a round because you didn't EX chair for the kill.

Oil drum isn't a real block string, you can r action out of it on reaction to teddie's overhead and you're likely to get hurt if you try to IB it. When your options are limited (Shocked, getting up, Unblockable dynamite is above you) DP the unblockable super, you shouldn't get hit by it unless you tech into it badly or something it is pretty avoidable in on reaction in almost any situation. Don't get hit by oil drum, if you do burst the all out attack. Huge damage coming your way. 236D/CD catches teddies drill claws if you block them or are far enough away. Don't get wall bounced in the corner, this means being careful not to get CH by bat, not to get thrown and not to randomly get hit by Kintouki douji when near the corner. Item order is not random and keeps its place through rounds, memorize it. I'm pretty sure it is; Green robot 20 SP drink Freezing ice Dynamite parachute (unblockable) Oil Drum Smoke bomb Fireworks (bounces up and down very quickly) Thunder drum, calls a lightning strike where it lands which shocks. Rage drink, heals like 1k, but can't block while raged. Pinwheel boomerangs in a over then under arc Red robot Poison curry Buckets

Why was everyone talking about APB loops? Are they different from the ones in AC?

A lot of combos need updating too, some of the bolded combos are not optimal.

When I watched that I was like "Why didn't he do 5C?" And I was Sure you had a reason, so I went into training and did it before I said anything. I did it twice to make sure that you just forgot.

In the last j.C combo you could put another 5C after the OMB. I get 8318 without the sweep at the end which probably does 0 damage.

Which again demonstrates that Height affects it because as anyone who has tried to 5C 2B 236B~214B knows that 5C 2B launches them much higher than 2B on a standing opponent does. It isn't a proration thing (In these cases), and fatals are basically getting you the extra frames anyway so of course that works. This all points to the fact that you get a few more frames on them if they are higher. So let's not get lost on the details of specific cases when they all follow the same rules and we can apply a system that works for all of them. The notation is actually more like 5C>2C>2B OMB, JC OMC, 66J.B, 5B>2B>5Cxx236B,2A>5B>2B>5C>5B>2Bxx236C Note he doesn't jump forward, but airdashes, also the end is 5B 2B not 2A 2B and you forgot a 2B before a FC in there too. It also looks like they used a fully charged C to start the combo so it is more like 7k possibly? Actually now that I think about it can't we do something like OMC[6] to note OMC dashes? 5A 5B 2B always does less and has worse proration than 2A 5B 2B. You get 8129 with that change alone. I like the idea of not doing two 236B's to avoid proration though.

236C 5AA 236C only works at certain heights. That's a real thing.

It is easy as heck to demonstrate, most people have probably already noticed. Active during the super flash is actually kinda important, it makes it so that the move is Actually effective against blocking. It is factually too late to jump as of the super flash, wherever the numbers come from this is a fact.

Most of your better combo options will involve comboing into 2B. It's not really that hard to do, though 2B is really really slow. This game has buffer time and in a combo you have the advantage of knowing in advance when you're going to have to press the button. Also on crouching, like in the example combo you brought up, getting to 5B>2B is extra damage and sp worth taking.

You do a lot of follow up cruel attacks late, I thought you were trying to do something cool, but you totally whiffed an ex follow p and wasted 25 sp. You can buffer the follow ups Really early if you don't want to miss them. You did what I think was a counter assault after a blocked super, I assume you were trying to make them waste the OMC with it, but was done prematurely? You could have just killed him with a chair in response to the superflash. R action would have worked in this case too, but might give him the opportunity to OMC? I might have to check that. You'd improve your damage by quite a lot if you worked on your confirms. You get a fatal 5C, which is at least 5k for minimal effort that you ended up following up with just 236b. 2B CHs, especially in the situations you got them in are a bit tougher to react to since you have the urge to at least get the 236C, but you can get a fair chunk of damage off of them, the Kanji combo thread has some viable combos for it too, check them out. You get bursted out of what could have been a lethal combo when you go for a 5C 236B~214B, which ends up costing you the round. Mess around with some alternate combo paths that avoid bursts. In this situation I'd have gone for 236C+D which you could have killed from safely (By comboing it into j.214B if you're being cool). Though I'm only basing that one on experience. I've had people try to burst my burst off of 236236A/B and they'd whiffed, so at the very least it makes bursting difficult. But you could have killed them by doing 236C with EX cruel attack in that situation. Since they didn't burst immediately (you landed from your burst) they at the very least can not hit you with their burst if you're throwing your persona at them. At somepoint I Think I saw you get an R action and not super cancel it to take the round, iunno maybe not. In the end game if both players are dying, Softer and safer moves have the advantage. Kanji generally lacking safe or soft things never wants that situation to happen. So confirm kills, combos, and punishes where ever you can. I mean you always should, but it is makes a much bigger difference to Kanji.

Ok, but 5B 2B is actually relevant for some distances so it needs to be included. That''s starting to make the list quite long though.

Can you actually do 5AA>2B on crouching? That looks an awful lot like you meant 5AA>5B>2B

Fatal of course works as a matter of math, I didn't mean to imply anything by not saying so. I don't think talking about why you do it was particularly relevant to the discussion since we were talking about a specific situation and whether or not it constitutes advice. You contribution could be very misleading in that context. As a fellow person trying to get used to anti airing properly, 236C is a lot faster. If it would work (as in not totally whiff) definitely try doing 236C over 2B which is so slow that you have to commit to a full swing Very early and risk getting wrecked by the many many air options people get. I don't think doing what makes you feel right is the kind of thing you tell someone who asks how to improve their play. EDIT: Though I have had some success with 2B versus some airdashes and similar situations with more limited air options for the opponent. The damage we can get off of CH 2B is at least pretty nice.

That's called a misplay. There's no reason to stand block a chair. Heck there's no reason not to DP when you see someone do a chair dive on reaction. It is slow and vulnerable. And while this is one of those many cute things that works because people don't know what they are doing yet, it does not constitute good advice. @other people Kanji's 2B is Terrible. It is crazy slow and the hitbox would be good in any game besides this, because a lot of characters have great normals. In grounded combos 5B>2B only works on crouching and only if you cancel it really fast. In the air they need to be high enough to not touch the ground before 2B hits and you still have to cancel super fast.

But it is a complete gimmick. There's no way to mix it up. It is not something you can condition because of that. Every time they are hit it is a misplay, and we shouldn't hand out gimmicks that are beatable on reaction as if they are good advice.

236B isn't an overhead, so j.214B shouldn't hit in a blockstring unless the opponent misplays in the situation you described.

FC's need to be largely rehauled, a lot of those are obsolete. 236C OMC 2B and j.A j.Bx2 are never the best fatal combo you can do. You can be like 2C(FC)>5B>2B>5C>5B>2Bxx236B,2A>5B>2B>5C(>5B>2B)xx236B~214B. Parenthetical doesn't always reach on at least Elizabeth based on minute differences in timing slightly changing your distance midscreen. Works in the corner though. Off of 5C 236B~214B has a bit of timing to it, you want to time it so that the 214B comes out very close to them on the upward bounce, not too late that they bounce past and not too soon that you don't get there in time, in other combos I've had this Totally whiff on mitsuru, may apply here. The 5C 5B 2B's in general have to be done After they bounce, aiming hitting them on the bottom of their hitbox so that they don't touch the ground before getting hit by 2B. It might be character specific, I've only done it on 3 characters so far. Ending in 214B gives you much better follow up options if you need to burn meter or a burst to kill than 236C does. 236C basically only gets OMC662B and kinda OMB in the corner. 214B get's OMC662C, 236236A/B and can OMB even mid screen.

I'm guessing you didn't remember the entire context of our conversation. I said that you could easily do similar combos mid screen, citing one I had used myself, which I later brought up was character specific. I'll rephrase my question. What all does this even Do? Shock barely limits people at all in oki since they didn't really have many places to go to being with and falling chair's effect was only described in one weird situation making a whiff safer under very specific conditions. So, what else does it limit? What are the actual limits caused by this corner knockdown with chair and shock? That's really worth knowing and right now, I don't get it. EDIT: I just looked at my old post and it was misleading, like really misleading. The combo I posted before was meant to work mid screen. Don't you find corner and shock at least a little redundant sometimes or is it really worth the effort to make it happen?

It's not his fault, he just got taken in by the myth that sledge is good. Part of playing grapplers is having to tell people that your stuff isn't always as good as you'd think it would be. Unless you're playing Pot, or Don Valve.

If you're smart (and patient) about it, online is still a source of information. Just look deep into what happens and accept that the correct decision will cost you matches online sometimes. Look deep into what happens and collect your data. Consciously avoid netplay tactics and be sure to practice combos offline/find some good connections to play with to keep the execution reasonable. I have it somewhat lucky as a person who plays grapplers a lot of the time I'm trying to get a good read so it isn't like I was planning to react in the first place, but online tells me a lot about what the other characters can do, and that match up knowledge that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Of course it isn't as good as having strong local players you can play often, but it is better than CPU's in terms of the information you can get.