Osuna

Hakumen definitely has unique GF option, but 5A beats 5A and DP both of which are legitimate options for Hakumen in GF. I personally find getting in on a good Hakumen extremely annoying because of 4C and j.C and all the meter he is rewarded with for turtling. The biggest problem with 6A is that it is Really slow, and even at mid range a lot of people can just jump over you.

Hard call out that actually hits him would be late AC 6A got a lot of nerfs when it got armor. It isn't a very good combo starter and the armor is often beatable on reaction.

Made easier to read, and the answer is sometimes, but Why would you do it with several better options. Sometimes his double jump gets hm Over the 6A unless it is timed very tightly then he can just hurt you. It is bad and we should be done talking about it.

6A > get hit by hotaru hold 6A > hotaru then jump cancel to safety. 6A is not useful as a call out for hotaru off of a GF, on a neutral tech sometimes/maybe but it would be really tight and you might as well just meaty them.

The frame data is misleading a little bit. For example in GF if you Don't hold 6A Noel's 3C can beat it, but if you Do it absorbs it consistently. Edit: to clarify, it actually totally does not work. Not theory crafting, this is what happens when you do this in the game.

Arakune's backdash doesn't get hit by it. He goes underground and then reapears in front of you. just 22D 360B/720C his backdash and there's nothing he can do about it. 6A should lose to hotaru straight up in anything like a GF situation. Hotaru is just faster and invincible through active frames and he can jump cancel it on hitting the armor, the hitstop on the armor counts for Both of you, it is there to give your opponents more time to react. If you hold it he has enough time to jump over you and punish, if you Don't hold it hotaru will actually just win in a GF situation (+3), so in a similar situation if you Hit him with 6A he screwed up. If you time it Just right you might force him to block it, which isn't terrible, I guess, but it is kinda lame. You can however AC it if you do it late, and unless he can cheat the start up a reversal 5A should stop him from jumping out of GF. 2B also causes it to whiff, which gets you a 360B.

I'm sure someone by now is good at hitting the 2B>5C>5B>2B thing, but I'm not. Excluding the obviously best 5C 5B stuffs these all improve on one or more of the FC combos in the thread. FC 2C > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B , 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B->236A/B 5142 FC 2C > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B , 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B OMC6 2C > 2B > 236C->236A/B 5832 50 meter FC j.C, 2C > 5C > 5B > 2B > 236B > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B->236A/B 5241 FC j.C, 2C > 5C > 5B > 2B > 236B > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236C+D, 2B 236C->236A+B 5900 50 meter FC 5C > 236A+B , 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B , 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B->236A/B 5568 These simple changes make a Lot of the fatal combos obsolete, including several at 25% or 75% meter because EX chair adds 400 to these combos. Everyone can see where I'm going with this right? Edit: 2A 5B 2B 5C 236B~214B is same meter, and considerably more damage and already pretty good corner carry. Though there is a spot on the stage where you could get corner off of abab that you couldn't off of normal means. Edit edit: These seem to be typos -FC 5C > 2C > 236B > 5A/2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236C 236A/B [DM: 4950/5050] -FC 5C > 2C > 236B > 5A/2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 5B > 2B 236C > 236A/B [DM: 5237/5342] Also, easy mode combos, whatevz, but a lot of them seem to be bolded, which I was told meant they were optimal, which they really are not.

Some of them appear to be worse version of other combos on the list. and j.A j.B j.A j.B shouldn't be in any of them ever. I'm not really that great at p4 but I guess I could go over them. I'm sure someone by now is good at hitting the 2B>5C>5B>2B thing, but I'm not. Excluding the obviously best 5C 5B stuffs these all improve on one or more of the FC combos in the thread. FC 2C > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B , 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B->236A/B 5142 FC 2C > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B , 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B OMC6 2C > 2B > 236C->236A/B 5832 50 meter FC j.C, 2C > 5C > 5B > 2B > 236B > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B->236A/B 5241 FC j.C, 2C > 5C > 5B > 2B > 236B > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236C+D, 2B 236C->236A+B 5900 50 meter FC 5C > 236A+B , 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B , 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C > 236B~214B->236A/B 5568 These simple changes make a Lot of the fatal combos obsolete, including several at 25% or 75% meter because EX chair adds 400 to these combos. Everyone can see where I'm going with this right?

Do we need a guide on this? I'm really surprised by how many people did now know how GF worked in GF mix ups, like at all. It doesn't catch all jumps and it interacts weirdly with some backdashes. It technically does not give you a punish on a reversal murakumo backdash, but totally does on Arakune. For some things you have to hold it which makes it super bad on whiff. it normally takes at least like 24 frames to whiff a GF, so it isn't very safe to just throw out there. If you hit them with the GF because them jumped or something, you cannot do it again because they lost downed state. You may RC it to combo them into another downed state to do it again. Anyone want to help me with a guide of unusual GF mix up options? I used to have some for most match ups but I'm kinda out of practice what with all the other games I'm playing lately. Edit: Not all of them are exactly option selects but tager can put people in bad positions. You can very slightly do a late GF if they already have plenty of mag and if they roll you can get a throw and if they neutral tech you get more frame advantage than if you had GF'd them, if they don't tech you just GF. Against jin you can option select his C dp because 5A recovers fast enough to block/backdash as described. Of course there is the throw reject barrier thing. OS's have to be weird because they need to involve whiff or barrier.

Some of the combos and most of the fatal combos need a lot of updating and have for a loong time.

If you Reallly want to trace this back to the first misunderstanding you made it by not realizing that the j.2C starting the combo was completely irrelevant and that a non ch j.2C is a non CH j.2C and making a bunch of completely meaningless statements about it, but this isn't about the blame game. End of story, of course you can combo off of non CH j.2Cs we do it all the time, there is no question that it can be done and for all intents and actual functionality you have also seen it happen.

I call BS on that too. You conversation was not entirely about that. You were responding to this If you see it in a combo (Which is a non CH j.2C, not just like it, is) then you know it works, you saw it in a combo probably over 500 times in a hundred videos.

I call BS. j.2C is used in pretty much every magnetized combo in extend and has been since day 1, often more than once per combo, occasionally like 4 times in one combo. I'd bet actual money that you are mistaken.

Yes and yes. The currently played version of the game is both on Ps2 and 360/PS3 (in their online stores). However, the current gen versions are both expecting an update that won't likely come to ps2 ever.

That was an old CT Nu strat. Wow.

Nope. He posted exactly what he meant and that wasn't it. If you read all the posts I actually speculated some of those before and had already explained they don't work.

Noel is a little skinny so good luck landing that second combo without whiffing the 2C. If they tech off the 2D you can't 22D, and 5D lets them recover much earlier than you and still pretty far away. Also, j.C whiff j.2C is just better than using 2D if you can do it. GF, GF whiff is normal stuff. It catches a lot of jumps and backdashes (Though it does not strictly punish mu or lambda backdashing.). It isn't recommended, but strictly speaking shortest GF whiff gives you enough time to 360A/720 4D. The post I was referring to was for a GF whiff off of something that was explicitly not GF and it turned out to be a gimmick.

If they neutral tech before they land they recover safely almost full screen and you get no oki at all. In fact they recover before you do if you pull them anywhere near you, so you don't even have frame advantage really. Edit:Tonight I'm going to be deleteing posts that ended up going no where, I'm going to wait a little since there'll probably be a few more before the end of the day.

There were (and are) set ups that do that, but he's not using any of the ones I know. At least from how he describes his gameplay he isn't. Unless he's spending a lot of meter on it I'm in the dark.

Ok, so if he blocks asledge instead of punishes it since he apparently had options while you were doing it or he wouldn't have blocked. After the Asledge unless you rapid the Asledge itself you are alreadyin a bit of trouble. No IB required between sledge and hammer there is a gap. And you'll still have bugs coming at you while he bacdashes or maybe supers depending. Also sometimes Hammer will get stuffed by a bug before it hits. It is better to rapid the Asledge and go from there. Also Jesus does our CA suck.

I get the idea, but I still don't know what you could get it off of. (5DCH wall bounces so it can't be that). This is important because it determines distance, options and frame advantage. This seems thoroughly specialized, so I need an actual situation to evaluate it. Especially because it seems clear at this point he's sacrificing damage for it since no traditional enders should make this work and it gives the opponent a lot of options, which may or may not be viable depending on the set up that no one seems to know. For the record, people who contribute should ideally say "When such and such happens" or "Off of such and such" you can blah blah against noel's whatever. For example, off of any GF you can use 6A to stuff 5D, 2D, 4D and Backdash. If you hold it just a little it won't catch backdashes but it will catch 3C. It gives Context (GF) precise usage, exactly what it beats. And even a little extra on a variation. If you have a special kind of mix up/oki you need to give context for it. Like instead of Elbow gadget I do j.2C 5B j.A j.B j.D. It gives a clear locaton for application and I can then talk about differences, mix ups, and situations where it isn't as strong.

Knockdown from What? Doesn't work after 2D, j.D or 5D (Definitely doesn't work off GF) What the does the combo look like? I can't figure out what he is doing.

The heck is GF vacuum? Anyone want to help me out on that one? Like put a bnb with this as oki into standard notation so I have it in readable form? I don't think it is delayed 22D, because that will often end in 22D and he says he never does it. Maybe 2D, 22D? Anyone ever heard of this term before?

Tager doesn't have a DP a good CA or an anti air that works in small gaps. He's also really big and slow and relatively easy to curse as he tries to trudge across the screen. Up close, j.B is insanely good against Tager compared to most, and sledges are long slow and vulnerable moves. Also 236A->236A RC 236B, 5C>6A>623C, Stuff works on ground and air hit off of Asledge, much better than 236A236ARC236A236A.

It isn't a specific situation. It is a mix up specific to an atypical situation, If I applied your tech to my gameplay it would Never happen because all of my combos end in either j.D or GF and your strategy doesn't apply to those situations. It is specific to a situation you never described and isn't common knowledge. You can't go "This is good in a mix up that is only good in a situation I get into because I play different from everyone else" and then Not tell us what you are doing that is different from everyone else. Oki, is something an upright person does to a person getting up. Hence a "wake up DP" is a reversal DP when recovering from a knock down.