Osuna

Any west coast players want to play with me before ctrlalt shows up?

With the proration changes CH 5C 5C anti air near the corner is pretty high on the list of best possible starters for combos (maybe even the Best possible starter). I'm as happy as everyone else about these numbers, but it is good to keep perspective.

The point I was making was that I just did that combo with no microdash. So by all means combine all the tech and make that thing as practical as possible, but you can totally do it by just delaying the 214B, except maybe on mitsuru's weird hitbox.

It is usually the change in momentum that doesn't give you enough time, you can just do the 214B when you're closer to them usually and reliability goes up. Of course the best is when you can end with 5C 5B 2B 236B~214B.

I hate the idea of being able to hold 6A personally. Like my moves are so slow they are bad, but if I make them even slower something good might happen is just silly to me.

Ok, so this has confused me for a long time. I haven't had the chance to play a lot of Kanji in a while, so maybe we can talk about this to clear it up real quick. I've had a bunch of people tell me that in fatal combos 2B 5C 5B 2B is impractically hard. If that is true then you Have to the mention the easier versions, which still have 2A 5B 2B right? Otherwise what combos are you hoping they will do? Only the low damage ones people tell me they don't use because of higher damage options and the extremely hard ones that everyone tells me they can't do? Also how can we justify calling 2A 5B 2B too hard to be included when it is the standard 2B CH follow up? It is a combo staple. Is this really an ok way to handle this?

I'm pretty sure that guilty gear is much more heavily implied to be Sol than you're giving credit for. He is the protagonist and his conflict is the centerpoint of the games for quite a while. Dizzy wasn't in the first game and justice dies during the same game. Testament is a mid boss of mild importance to the series. The word guilty can mean more than being bad or a criminal, I think it is telling that the word guilty was used rather than many other words that more readily come to mind that would better suit those various characters and conditions. Also it says that Sol is the guilty gear in the first faq you linked.

It actually would almost never be less, and almost always be more. The minimum is much more important than those values. Anything but the shortest Kanji combos hit minimum for the follow up damage surprisingly fast. So it is actually a much closer to a difference of 400 (200 minimum vs 600) on average if you going through the trouble of calculation. Edit: to clarify it is minimum damage which is not the same as unprorated damage. Edit:-FC 5C > 2B > 236B > 2A > 5AA > j.A > j.B > dj.A > j.B > j.214B > 236236A/B > OMC, (2nd hit) 214214C *cost 150 SP* [DM: 6915] For example on bolding obviously not optimal combos, how is this optimal? You don't exactly need corner carry when you end the combo in 214214C/D, and even if you did distance doesn't count for being optimal. It doesn't even do 7k and easy bench mark met with 150 meter on a fatal counter. I'm Really confused on what optimal is supposed to mean here, cuz technically optimal would be all about getting 2B 5C 5B 2B. If that's too hard for people then you'd still get as much 5B 2B as you can, if That's too hard for everybody then you're so far from optimal at that point what is the point of bolding?

Next wednesday it is. I've done more than 100 matches 1v1 when people let me, so barring a family emergency I fully expect it to be "1v1 until You are tired of it".

To sum up the long and somewhat annoying talk we all had in the gen discussion thread, all of Hakumen's options in GF get hit by either reversal 5A (Beats jumps/tk's, hits backdash and attacks) or like 360A (Guard/D's). 2B works as a hard call out for tk hotaru, so does a late AC. There are weird and very specific ways for him to make this not true, but typically that is the mix up.

The number of matches is negotiable, out connection wasn't so horrible that I'd say no to you. Also I do not own an xbox because I am poor.

You respect Tager too much, you let him mix you up on your oki (Running up and then waiting for Tager to do something when you knock him down). He has no meterless reversal if you have the advantage hit him with safe stuff, pay attention to when he wants to do some of his mix up and DP it sometimes so he has to bait it. Backdash is often better than blocking in GF because it makes 5A/360/Ac whiff and you can get some space/a punish depending on what went down. I notced those hotarus weren't happening and took just a little advantage...a lot advantage... Jeeze not having to respect hotaru is awesome. GGs to both of you and that crazy earthquake assist. Edit: Also the xbox thread has given me any idea, anyone on the west half of the states want to ft50 me? That's not a typo, I just want the excuse to play up to 99 matches straight through.

I've never kicked anyone who wasn't frozen I don't think, and I am also saddened by many 3bars having private rooms. I'll play you if you like, I hate Tager mirrors more than anything and I'm in the PNW which isn't exactly close, but if you're interested I'm MojoPlenty on psn.

If everything else is completely identical I can only guess that you press the button at the wrong time when you do it on pad or are mistaken about your speed.

If you can't 2A them and you can't AC them or 2C them you can't anti air without some ghetto 360A action or a super which they may or may not be able to block depending on when they land.

I gotta say that I really like those GF whiffs, there pretty fun looking and they are faster paces than what we have now. I'm still skeptical that we can do that much more off of a fatal j.2C, similar to how meterless in extend you had a barrier on FC 2C because no matter how many more combo options that gave you the additional proration slowed things down too much. The extra 10% proration on j.2C shouldn't be underestimated especially midscreen, I'd be happy to be wrong but that is typically how these kinds of numbers work out. Mag mid combo taking significant proration hits made me a bit sad too.

Irony~ As per Mac's request the only fact that about the game that was discussed was that j.2C can at times be comboed from without CH and the rest was whether or not starting a combo with j.2C need ever be seen to know that is inherently obvious in Tager's combos which devolved into just semantics. So that much has been done for a about 2 days. Tagertime, I apologize that I went so far as calling BS. That wasn't very respectful of me. All I really wanted to say was that you were drawing a meaningless distinction and made a mistake, but that wasn't all that important and wasn't proper for me to argue about it. But now I'm razzing you a bit with the irony comment because you talk about people not contributing to the conversation when you're drudging up an old topic and then adding nothing to the conversation. Not that you Had to walk away but you could have Pmed me or included relevant comments to other stuff that was more current. Also watch the usage on those, mac. Those are the kind of thing mods aren't supposed to appreciate. It doesn't bother me much, but the idea is it takes up a lot of space and it doesn't contribute in proportion, so it'd be pretty bad if those became a habit. On the topic of FCs, I'm Really doubtful about breaking 6k without spending 100 meter (if then). The proration changes and the new combo paths so far don't seem to allow that kind of damage. We don't have tons of 92 p2s anymore.

Why would they even let you burst that move? Well, this very slightly limits burst options even further.

um no. He jumps then 720s. edit: he does a very slight delay by buffering the first 360 during the jump, but that is not what you would call a standing 720.

I wouldn't say preferable so much as not exactly comparable? Resets are very good, they just aren't supposed to replace mix up entirely. GF can't be undone in a way that is analogous to a reset or tech trap, like you said. For example, 5D delay 22D that ctrl has talked about before. There is a single option that makes this do nothing. Short of bursting before the GF there is no way to avoid it, however in what is described as ACing them multiple times trying to get them to tech they have a lot of control over their recovery and a smart decision will very consistently gain them the advantage. Also yes, depending on proration people can instant tech a collider, can take often require 3 though.

It will be in chrono phantasm. At high level play there aren't many tech traps because players will naturally move toward the best options on tech, then if you can mix up that particular tech trap they will reduce it to a regular mix up. I mean it is gimmicky and cute to do a lot of them as people unfamiliar with that aspect of the match up will get hit, a lot. I've gotten plenty of perfects by doing oki the opponent did not know. I don't like letting them land on the ground and tech very much because then you have to throw out a move in case they roll and that uses up a lot of the frame advantage. It can get really hard to surprise some people after 500 matches with them, and then it is all just mix ups anyway. The real downside to most tech traps is when you don't know how much knowledge they have on the subject, because a lot of them put you in a bad position if they tech right. This is compounded by tech traps typically requiring you to use sub optimal combos. But in the end my favorite way to end a combo is with j.D.

What you're saying is that you don't like oki. That's not very productive.

GGs Swagna5B/SenaXLuna/GGJ/ThatOneGuy Cool stuff always happens where you're there<3

High risk/reward 50/50 is about all you can hope for with a grappler. Do the math on normal Oki and you'll find that it isn't any better for Tager.

It is sometimes true about extend. Some characters have multiple very good options in GF and the risk reward isn't as good. The change between cs2 and extend that made GF better was the buff to 5A, the 100 damage and extra heat were nice, but the 5A buff was what changed everything. It was the best option in GF but it used to lead to no damage. In some match ups I like to end some combos with j.D for more damage and to get them to tech in the air instead of on the ground.