Osuna

@Circadeous Nothing fancier than those dust combos? I feel like with all the ways we can manipulate height and falling that we could get a better combo if I could just figure it out. Also holy crap on the sweep combo. I tried to do it before, but I gave up when I looked at the frame data. It's super tight and at least for me awkward to input. Maybe some day. Also at some point we need to group things based on who the combos work on. I know I would have liked a reference sheet of what works on who, I'm sure some other guy will want for it down the line.

I've heard tell of strong players from strong scenes getting counterpicked by people picking characters not represented in that scene. There are 23 characters and even if you have 30 people in your scene (Which would be Gigantic by GG standards) you won't likely be able to play against all of them if you never play online. Having 0 match up experience against even 1 member of the cast is a notable handicap.

Do overdrive combos even work in the corner? Wouldn't the extra wallbounce screw it up?

Unless it Does absorb projectiles and the piercing was a property of yukari's attack.

Ok, so I'm messing around with doing 6K>632146H, 6H>HF(frc)6P 623H/tk.APB. But it seems to be shakable? I checked the +R wiki and it didn't say by how much shake inputs reduced stagger by. I'd like to know if anyone knows off hand. Anybody found any interesting ways to combo off of 6K that aren't the 1 frame hammerfall thingie? I'm willing to spend the meter. Or a half decent dust combo? Man dust is really bad, but I feel compelled to at least Know a legit combo from it.

I was talking about not in the corner. As in, unless you are in the corner already why bother? Mid screen full air combos do so much damage and get so much corner carry and that spending meter on combos outside the corner feels like a waste. And since the other combos do so much more corner carry when I combo Into the corner 99% of the time it is a combo where APB can't combo into 623H

The APB thing is exactly what I'm complaining about. On characters you can get a full combo on the APB has a tendency to add only 10 damage for 25 meter. Unless it lands in the corner 2H HFB TK APB isn't even worth doing with less than 100 tension. The air combos just add so much damage and are so tight on proration/hitstun decay. I guess I could just spend meter outside of combos more. Nothing wrong with that. I just wish I could blow meter making sure someone was dead more often.

Ok, so what are people spending their meter on? In combos spending meter doesn't seem to add much. At least HPB and APB seem like almost a waste against characters who you can do long combos on.

I'm pretty sure those first 2 chains don't really work? At least 5K 2S 2H HFB sj.P j.P j.K j.S j.H c.S 623H drops the 623H when I do it. I find myself finishing combos with APB just because it is easier to get than 623H. Potemkin's combos are so character specific now. I find with some characters like Axl I end up just doing sj.P j.K j.S j.D because he tends to fall in this arc that makes j.S drop otherwise. But Zappa seem to get hit by everything.

Ok, so what are we doing for combos now? OR for anything else? Anyone actually playing this character besides TSK?

J.S j.HS often should be delayed a little bit to get the j.H to hit lower. At least in the example used in this thread. That combo hits halfway to the ground if you just gatling it like normal, but you can get it super low to the ground if you delay the j.H. I mean, you're still chaining it so you don't have all day to delay it, but the height difference for when j.H hits is notable and you want to hit them pretty low to get the good follow ups. Also, we have like no threads for +R combos and stuff.

Yeah we're all gonna call them YRCs. I just read a bajillion pages of loketest notes, but I don't think anyone said what version of slidehead Pot has. There are 3 versions that do very very different things.

I'm definitely in for GG and BB.

Use of game mechanics is a fine criteria. There's more than on/off to describe how someone's use of game mechanics are. Those who need to work on their fundamentals usually need to work on things like moving, blocking, and pressing buttons at the correct time. I'm not sure how to define it so that it includes the aspect of applying your character's strengths though.

I think he does know what he is talking about. That statement to me amounts to "Tagers really good right now, but he won't be when the dust settles" Which is a pretty good way of looking at him. Tager as a character tends to cap out on what he can do really early, but cap out lower than more technical characters. His statement shows he understands this pretty well. Tager is doing very well right now, but typically his perceived tier ranking goes down over a game's life.

Being mentally pressured is not what I'm talking about when I describe pressuring someone in fighting games. One of the big goals I have when teaching someone to deal with being pressured is to Not feel mentally pressured. To think clearly, understand what is happening and react appropriately. So maybe it'd be easier to define if we could decide what good, bad, so-so, and very strong pressure looks like. The functional characteristic of pressure I think measures the quality of pressure best is how much it reduces the number and quality of options the opponent has. Or perhaps it would more accurately be relative options? Reducing options for them while keeping options for yourself. Perhaps specifically aggressive options? Also frame traps are very clearly a kind of mix up aren't they? I would never have considered they could be anything else.

As I recall the video begins with something to the effect that Anji makes up for his poor ability with pokes with a strong oki game. So someone did indeed say his pokes were bad, and whether that's what was meant doesn't really matter (it doesn't change to result, the problem, or the solution). I Know that's not what you're trying to say. I in fact also know what you were trying to say about the three pokes, but the context and wording made it come out wrong. I'm not accusing you of Thinking something incorrect. I'm saying what you said doesn't convey what you're thinking. It is misleading. There is no amount of reasons why it was said or good intentions that can make something misleading stop being misleading, so you don't have to explain what your reasoning was because it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Anji is indeed a character who is dependent on oki. Some characters aren't. I'm going to disagree with Zidane on the appropriateness of the word powerful. I think using strong language is fine for this case because it is more interesting language and I don't find the existence of millia to be a persuasive reason to not use the word. What do you call millia's oki? Something like "the best". There. Sets her apart in an exciting way from all the characters who have merely strong or powerful or good oki. Very generic terms that help drum up interest. From a communication standpoint I completely disagree with the idea that you're boxing yourself in by setting the bar too high with Anji's oki. There's plenty of ways to communicate the superiority of stronger oki without sounding strange.

So as for what seems to need changing. Using the term Safe implies safe on block in fighting games and needs further clarification if that's not what you mean. That's a way of misspeaking not really misunderstanding. The words beat on reaction, gets stuffed by, or unreactable (which isn't a real word according to my spell check) get usage on DL for describing those kinds of situations where you can see and then stuff an attack on reaction. Punishes very specifically refer to situations where the opponent puts themselves minus enough to get hit. I stuff riot stomp on reaction. I don't punish it. I think this is largely consistent with the usage of those words too. Least I've been talking with many players of several games from different areas in these terms for 7 years now and the times we've been called to define them for newer players this is what we've told them. I'm going to make the case that pokes don't have to confirm to big damage to be good pokes. They call them pokes because their functionality is in how they stuff attacks/approaches and not how much damage they do. Like how when you actually poke someone with something it is a reaching motion with no force. There's clear differences between characters with good pokes and bad abare and bad pokes with good abare. We don't just average out the ability of both characters to say their poking games are so so. We say one has good pokes and the other has bad pokes. If you want to say he has good(or decent or just not bad even) pokes but can't always pick up a combo, then say that. Also saying Anji has bad pokes then saying what is bad about 3 pokes is heavily implying his pokes are just lack luster and not good. I understand the reasons things were said the way they were, but the result is misleading and deserving of a quick fix. I think most of us like these videos and are glad they exist. We certainly share them with others and watch them ourselves.

I'm a little confused by the way he uses the words safe and punish, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean that 2D is untouchable and that you should mash it after blocking fuujin. I think he means that he can block low and react to the other follow ups because they are slow. (27, 30, 36 frames. Slower than typical overheads) and for some reason is focused on using 2D to beat certain options, possibly because he gets a good combo off it and that damage must reflect on his view of the safety of the follow up. I think he is trying to use safe as unreactable so something very slow is unsafe in his terms. So really, let's give each other the benefit of the doubt here and not go assuming the worst of other people when everyone here is on the same team pushing for a common goal. Edit: This doesn't necessarily mean anything is unsafe in the traditional sense, just that he feels things must be slow enough to be not very good. Perhaps he is mistaken, but this isn't a completely unreasonable view just looking at the numbers. So I think he deserves discussion. For the record, as long as someone communicates enough I think even someone completely unskilled could properly do this video series, so let's not get hostile even if someone does make a mistake. Things like this can be refined and improved. The metaphorical pencil has an eraser, so it isn't a big deal.

That Yumura versus MC was weird to watch. The most of it was played extend style. There were several matches where his buffs seemed to not exist. Makes me worried and confused. I do like his corner shenanigans and j.A leading to combos air to air, but in that set Tager overall did less damage and had a harder time getting in than extend tager would have, which you'd think would be pretty important. Tager's doing really well though, so maybe it is just a weird match up. I'm glade the 5D slide looks better than CT's. In CT people would get hit by 5D's on purpose to get away from Tager. Miss the stagger, but who wouldn't? Also even though he wasn't as strong technically, I thought Osuban's match was much more interesting. He was trying a lot more things, several were very bad, but I learned a lot more watching that than Yumura's set.

I think when learning a character for a beginner a sense of results is very good. A new player not being able to finish a combo from a low without an frc I think is a serious barrier. Testament without an frc (has one of the best FRCs too) can still do awful lot, and only gets better as the player invests. That sense of accomplishment is really helpful I think. Besides GG is really fun! I want people to be able to put a functional character together quickly so that they can think it is fun too. That is my reasoning. It is somewhat informed by Star Demon lamenting how he must be the worst in the world because he has trouble with BnBs with baiken and he was screwing up frcs on his bad tv or something.

Ok, No One got this? Baiken is very very Not beginner friendly. Very unintuitive gameplay, takes a lot of work and know how to get right. Execution barriers. Relatively long list of important high usage FRCs. Also for my local groups I never recommend Chipp as a fast character. Millia gets results earlier and in the end she's a generally stronger character.

I always thought dolphin loops were awkward for beginners? As a beginner I liked potemkin because the reward I got for my efforts was pretty significant. Imo, Testament is similar in that regard.

Are you saying people don't notice frame advantage existing? That's just not true. You don't have to study frame data to notice moves getting punished and other moves not getting punished. It also isn't hard to notice certain moves getting punished on IB only, or that in gadget finger that your 5A always loses to Tagers 5A, that's easy to pick up on. They might not go "That is frame advantage", but that is what it is. Frame advantage is simply too fundamental to gameplay to be unnoticed.

So just anyone can get in and talk about whatever on skype? Talking is good. I like talking.