A.X.I.S.

most haku's i fight just IAD J.a to bait backdash, even if tager IB's it he can't punish, and if you IAD J.C just right then you can 2A as soon as you land spam that then jump, most haku's do that to me and it annoys me to no end. miso thats the simplest way to do the match-up.

you scared me in rank, smart ragna! i can learn from you.

hmm i found out my weakness...i lack rushdown, in general i have no rush down abilities, i mostly play patiently and bait things but since playing tager i've been having issues punishing airs with 6A, anyone wanna knock some rushdown into me? and later on i'm gonna post a vid with my ragna please give me some tips i'd love some.

well i had my bouts of helplessness until i figured out that walking and sledging is the best transportation ever. not necessarily, when arakune gets to zoning then you have to take it slow and act accordingly, in other words don't do something stupid, problem is almost everything is stupid in this match-up.

doing pro shit, like standing 720's and driving sports cars.

i know this police stable by rouge park, erhem! erhem! it just feels so lopsided with the tager match up's but i do agree that most the cast have a slight advantage over him.

LOL! for me everyone blocks because i always have a way to take off 50%+ off someones health, you should see their faces when i get one 5A in.

5A>360 sometimes or i use 5A>2A>2B>2C or 3C it scores a combo or knockdown because no one blocks low on tager.

beat me to it. FUUU---!!! i agree with worldjem's idea, and i think it could actually change the match up chart.

simplified. tager has bigger mix ups and damage output. haku can keep tager away and still do decent damage. from my experience it sounds about even at the least.

yeah its work alot of work, but we are suppose to bait counters and avoid using moves that get punished, i named 6A as a punish to a wiff counter, everything else wouldn't be as rewarding when it comes to that. at the same time haku is not gonna do much without meter and thats the problem for haku, and believe me when i say we can't rush it and we gotta put you in spots that makes you waste meter, and for haku meter is all he got at cracking us to bits except for 2D, the combo's off of throws and 2D's are damn near illegal. @ heroic legacy: you make it sound like rachel doesn't summon pumpkin at all, even if she is rushing us down we should be able to IB it and your forgetting about silpheed, rachel won't be doing alot of crazy stuff without wind to use.

the same same thing in haku's case, haku is not going to do real damage unless he gets a hole in tagers defense and use the meter, and depending on how messed up things are depends on how much you can do, while tager can just out right muscle you from the get go. tager needs 3 good combos for haku to die, haku needs 4 or more depending on what he has when he gets that hit in, from what i see haku has to make a opening on tager but all tager has to do is get passed that sword and mix in a few pokes and throws and haku is in big trouble. i will make the other things easier to see. lol whoops.

its because haku have to rely on thwarting tager in his attempts, one 360 and shit goes sideways for you. But you gotta remember a thorough understanding of tager's tech traps is vital in this match-up. If you've got that it really isn't so confusing as any old mix-up if you can see the consistencies within the tager's set-ups. backdash gets punished by 5A and J.A 5a and j.A don't go into anything unless hakumen is magnetized though.... true but it beats back dash and once you hit tager you can begin doing some damage, and put us in a bad spot, remember everything gives haku meter, even the small stuff. if it he's predictable but tager can also air throw you out and not to mention you guys just like tager have to rely on fuck ups, Hakumen should NOT be in the air that much (well mine isn't, not telling anyone how to play hakumen) I'm doing this from the standpoint of a turtle hakumen. no haku shouldn't jump alot but he shouldn't be on the ground in 360 range either. like 5D>236B if tager throws a loose 5D on you guys its a free combo and if you have meter then poof we lost 4k hp and you guys get advantage. Which therein lies why i don't think this should be in tager's favor, a hakumen player should only be throwing counters upon reaction to 5d,2d, sledge; among other things. yeah but it doesn't mean we can't get predictable then break it in a instant, i see haku's try to J.D me commonly and at some point i either land then do 720, air throw, or j.2C. you guys have no oki on get up, ok you guys got 214B but if tager have meter or or just feel like 360ing then you guys waste 2 meter. True, his oki isn't amazing but it's completely safe. Because of hakumens' aerial state within a hop, all throws are negated and if he cancels into 214b then it's totally safe and the hakumen can jump in our out depending on what he feels like doing. yeah but we can also bait you on wake up and punish 214B, tager can't do much if your on the ground, except scoop you up and tech trap, but other than that you got me there. lets go over our options. round 1 start. 2c as hakumen is only beaten (from what I"ve gotten so far) by j.A and 5a I believe. 360a doesn't reach unless it has to be delayed or something. Remember seeing someone whiff it on me. backdash, low block, thats it! meaning at the begining haku will beat us, this is a game of checkers and you guys are the smoke before our fire, meaning we can't do much unless you do something we can't punish, but at the same time you can't keep us away either. haku has us in 6C range, we can IB 6C IB 6c would hit? From the sound of it it's far too slow to catch hakumen after 6c. If it doesn't then you just set yourself up for a frame trap. (well.. kinda a frame trap?) or hop no i mean we can IB your 6C, which means we don't get pushed back, which is bad when you wanna zone. No hop for tager :[ toward you and J.C for the boost you lose that reach then it becomes a game of jump and punish 2c is the god's anti-air in this instance. It reaches really high, but you also have to be careful NOT to let the j.2c delay pass by it (hakumen's 2c has a pitiful amount of active frames, like most of the moves in BB) If you can master doing 2c safely it's quite a fortress to go over. (however some tagers vs. me have had a little bit of success with j.D, but I haven't faced it enough to really assess it. J.D won't hit you unless we time it right, and its not worth it if it means we trade with you ugh. if its not j.A you eat a 360 clean, if we don't back up then i assure you, you will have meter to hotaru? is that what the anti air kick is? and jump out, from what i get wiff or miss you get a second chance, and without a magnet we can't do anything, good haku's won't let us stack a magnet unless they get combo'd, cactus guy, fullautodeath, jackmfg, and SA town are all examples. I'll agree. Getting a magnet on you can be veeeery confusing. Jumping is unsafe, and you'll slowly be drawn into mix-up range. Best thing to do would be hop cancel hotaru and catch the tager in one of his moves, or just be very careful when countering (i've had some really odd times when you'd think I'm in range for the counter, but tager stops juuuuuuust out of range and doesn't hit me. I'll need to remember those ranges :P once we have the magnet it gets pretty bad for you we can mix you up, and lock you down, i had luck with J.B in some cases and getting hop 360's because haku's want to counter during the hectic moments, and its not hard to put you on the magnet, i spark bolt haku's and if they block you are gonna get drawn in and will either get defensive or burn your meter risking that punish. so in other words its a game of who can punish who better in this case tager can fuck haku up if he messes up a counter, in which case tagers 6A feels like the biggest punish, a counter hit on this with a spark bolt says 5k damage and we could RC without spark bolt and still come out with 5k+ without bolt, magnet keeps you guys from wanting to come in so we have to step up and keep a eye on your meter. I'll also agree. The moment that hakumen slips a counter tager can really lay down the hurt, especially in a slower match like hakumen vs tager. All of the momentum hakumen gains from his counter - supers can be lost from one of tager's combos (and the frame/tech trap follow-ups!) yeah and we want you to slip up, and make it hurt. i'd finish this up later but to me it feels like i can do alot more damage on haku's mistakes then i can, and without a corner or alot of meter you can't do much to us. sorry if it seems half assed gotta do some stuff. be backs. ok gotta add some more. haku have to do whatever damage his meter lets him do and tager can do 3k easy with a magnet without waiting, so our damage output is higher unless you got 4 or more meter. so its like a game of arms, but we are the stronger guy, bigger punishes and a much better mix up game.

ok i won't. its because haku have to rely on thwarting tager in his attempts, one 360 and shit goes sideways for you. backdash gets punished by 5A and J.A if it he's predictable but tager can also air throw you out and not to mention you guys just like tager have to rely on fuck ups, like 5D>236B if tager throws a lose 5D on you guys its a free combo and if you have meter then poof we lost 4k hp and you guys get advantage. you guys have no oki on get up, ok you guys got 214B but if tager have meter or or just feel like 360ing then you guys waste 2 meter. lets go over our options. round 1 start. backdash, low block, thats it! meaning at the begining haku will beat us, this is a game of checkers and you guys are the smoke before our fire, meaning we can't do much unless you do something we can't punish, but at the same time you can't keep us away either. haku has us in 6C range, we can IB 6C or hop toward you and J.C for the boost you lose that reach then it becomes a game of jump and punish if its not j.A you eat a 360 clean, if we don't back up then i assure you, you will have meter to hotaru? is that what the anti air kick is? and jump out, from what i get wiff or miss you get a second chance, and without a magnet we can't do anything, good haku's won't let us stack a magnet unless they get combo'd, cactus guy, fullautodeath, jackmfg, and SA town are all examples. so in other words its a game of who can punish who better in this case tager can fuck haku up if he messes up a counter, in which case tagers 6A feels like the biggest punish, a counter hit on this with a spark bolt says 5k damage and we could RC without spark bolt and still come out with 5k+ without bolt, magnet keeps you guys from wanting to come in so we have to step up and keep a eye on your meter. i'd finish this up later but to me it feels like i can do alot more damage on haku's mistakes then i can, and without a corner or alot of meter you can't do much to us. sorry if it seems half assed gotta do some stuff. be backs.

its not too bad for tager, i just chill through the whole fight, walking through the mounds of shit she throws at me, the trick is when i get close how to lock her down, how to get the magnet on her and to keep under pressure, wants i find the suitable means of locking her in, the match quickly turns to my favor. for tager its literally getting close without triggering a counter hit, hitting her, then pressuring her, find a way to net some damage, bait a burst (hard as hell to do) then deliver the final blow. like Kro said 6/4, she's not gay like nu, kune, and carl. oh and SKD i wanna finish the debate but i'll consider it a loss, either way its still 6/4 for noel.

i do the same thing but i try to avoid the clap so i don't risk dying in the loop.

if you had xbox i'd show you how messy the match gets but your a ps3 person...ask heroic_legacy he might help.

yeah it is your over thinking it, and step 2. was ???. meaning your method could be anything if it works, if your high jumping tager then you risk CH 2C more than colider in some cases, does real damage, good damge for the risk, and if your in tagers face then he can't colider you for whoring, once you get in there then they are gonna worry about the 720, sometimes they see it coming, sometimes they don't. stop over thinking heroic.

this has to be the easiest match up to win, just becareful with the jump in's tager can 2C you into a CH 4k combo. step 1. step back. step 2. ??? step 3. win.

strip them of their tools. silly question, thats all you have to do unless you like waiting until they crack our shells then beat us with their magic swords, guns, sticks, and fist. btw i don't cross myself up its not even hard doing it, lol i'll sell you my carpet for 10$.