Sophisticat

2b -> Gurren -> etc. is your best bet is they don't tech in time. 2c -> sj.a-b -> dj.2a -> j.C 2c -> sj.2c -> Tsubaki -> j.2c -> 5c or 2c -> etc. Do renka(2) -> gurren -> hop 5b -> etc. instead. Hop 5b won't work if you only do one hit of renka since the hitbox won't be high enough to give enough time to hop 5b. Besides, it does less damage with only one hit anyway. Not the best combo, better to go for regular enma stuff, but you gotta get your damage some way or another I guess. Depends on the distortion and my distance to the opponent. I'd do Yuki if it meant it kills them since it's unburstable. Otherwise, it's a free 5c CH into combo of choice. On that note, if Valk whiffs his ground DD in such a fashion that you end up falling on the other side of him, it's a free full charge 6c CH. Have fun with that one! :D

I'd agree that Haku v. Tager is 6-4, but Stick said no .5 changes, so I didn't comment. :x 4c isn't that good here outside of max range. Any closer, and Tager can get in. From the air, Haku will want to j.C, but too close and that's not good either. 2c loses to a well spaced Tager j.D, and Haku's own j.D can be baited (which is, imo, super effective in this match due to Tager's longer average startups). The hard work is on Tager's end, but Haku is not an impregnable fortress. In fact, I believe that getting magnetized makes this match even. But it's 6-4 since Tager has to work to get some magnet action going. But if I might be allowed to comment on another .5 change, I'd say Haku v. Rachel is 6.5 Haku favor, but not 7. While Rachel does suck, Haku loses to zoning. Void is more problematic here for Rachel than other zoners, but she can still zone, so to speak. Plus, mobility being on her side, she can outrun the clock with a life lead. On the other hand, if the Haku rushes down, not much she can do about it. It can be a frustrating match for both parties. 6.5 at worst, imo. Besides that, I must say I'm pleased with the turn this thread has taken. A bomb was dropped, but we're back to discussing matchups. Let's keep it that way, eh, gents?

Personally, I'm pretty happy with Haku's match numbers in the chart. Yeah, I'm a nobody, but I can at least say I agree with most of them. I'd just change Makoto to 7-3 and I'd be cool with it. I would like to know the justification behind Lamb, Mu, and Ara being 6-4, though. In brief, I think those are 5-5 even matches since these character's ability to zone Haku counterbalance his range and void.

I see, I should try that. I play Haku so no need for weird control schemes. Com Grab/throw at the end of a combo is a legit tactic, though.

No, but at least Nu was fairly straightforward and didn't have much in terms of defense. Her mixup only came into play if you played a really good player because it sucked otherwise. Mu, at least to me, is material since she can keep you out, in lockdown, and mix you up. Not fun at all, but she is still easier than Nu. Marginally. Scratch that, I misread. I thought it said 6-4 Lambda favor, but it's the other way around. I'd like to know more about this one, too. I view it as 5-5, so I wonder where Haku got the extra point in his favor. I would also like to thank those who took the time to make informative posts to honest questions. See? We do listen!

-_- Ya'll got that? 100% right. Even Lambda-Haku. That one really is 6-4, Lamb favor. I'll post why later.

^ No. So long as you have wolf meter, you can switch any number of times. I did notice what you mention, but that should just be an execution problem. Don't mash it out, properly pressing each button should prevent getting stuck like that.

A couple tips, please. I'm practicing Valk's j.236b -> CD -> j.B -> Mondlicht -> 9DD -> j.B thingy, and I'm currently finding the CD -> j.B bit prohibitively hard to do. Now, I'm a pad player. If I tap C -> D -> B quickly in succession, it will not work. Then I tried doing C -> DB, almost rolling my thumb one button off the other, and then it worked. Is it really that tight? It strikes me as extremely unusual that something so heavy on execution would be a bnb.

Well, you might want to say why this matchup is 100% correct for starters. You say it yourself below that this stuff can change. Was this a JP/US collaboration? Who worked on it? Why is it correct? Etc. My Mu comment was rhetorical, though. I don't think she's top, but she's got a couple things that make her a very unfun character to play against: - Lasers don't stop if Mu is hit. - Setups during laser lockdown. - Stupid DP. - Excellent 6a/2c AA. - Good general poke priority, though she does lose to jabbing. - Easily keeps others out with a simple combo. - Above average primer breaking ability, though that might just be the guy I play against. I do say 41236c special breaking 2 primers on full charge is stupid because of the mind games involved at the right distance. It's like Haku's charge shippu but without the necessary meter. It's like CT Nu all over again for characters like Haku. If you want to play the guy in question, you can look him up on PSN: Blood-Gemini. He's French, so I can hook you up if you want. Dude is astoundingly good. I take it Pulsr helped with the matchup? I'm cool with that, I trust his input. I just won't believe Mu is an easy character to pin down. So who was involved in this chart? That my main contention here. I don't doubt their abilities with their own characters, but I'd like to know more about this chart's source and amount of input before knowing it's legit. So? Keep giving out info you think is correct. Unless there's a subjective interpretation attached, people will come around eventually. I only cited PSR because combined to your win% and low disconnections, I can automatically assume you're a good player. I don't think it's that bad. There's just a lack of visibility on good info, which I think is a perennial problem with the FG genre. Even with a lot of research, I still come across new info I never knew even existed about FGs and then start wondering why better players get annoyed at others not knowing that kind of stuff. There's too much of a piecemeal nature to FG info. But, a couple things can be done to minimize this, the least of which is to correct wrong information anytime we come across it, no matter how often. That's the only way we can educate others, or else the problem persists ad infinitum, ad nauseam. We'll see if both the new tier list and this matchup chart, no pun intended, match up. It is! ... Tiers/matchups can just get a bit subjective, so feathers can be ruffled. Anyway, I know I appreciate it, and let it known I do. It keeps the good, delicious info coming.

Jin can't abuse anything in this match. He'll rely more on throws and DPs, but he has to be cautious about those, too. Imo, you can pretty much do whatever you want here. Jin is the only character I would say Hakumen has the clear advantage. You outrange, outpoke, and outdamage him too much. Even Haku's mixup is better than Jin's. More specifically, his blockstrings are unsafe so his pressure is limited. Use D to catch him out on IB, poke him if he goes for 6c/6a, do wtv on ice car block. He only has throws and coming in by air left. By air, he'll go for j.B, j.C, or ice swords. Jump up barrier and reaction j.D or air throw if he goes for j.B/C, or block the 25% swords -> your own j.C. For your offense, all you have to watch out for is his DPs. Bait those, and you really limit what he can do. Air-to-air, watch out for his j.C, though. Ours is bigger and has pushback, but he can combo into his. So yeah, about as free all Haku will get. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

How about adding explanations, then? If you're the guy with all the supposed skills and knowledge necessary to determine stuff like this, then it would be appreciated if you did more than just tell us what is and what isn't without evidence to support it. This chart is a prime example of "showing, but not telling". We all have our own idea of characters, whether we know them in-depth or not, but most importantly, we don't have your views of the characters. Why are these placements the way they are? I know I saw a post by Henaki a while ago where he thought Ara was quite high on the tier list, but this seems to contradict it. Speaking of tiers, didn't a JP list come out just a few weeks ago where everyone was roughly in agreement with it (which, incidentally, also contradicts this chart)? One thing, though. You do not get a free pass just because you're a top player. Provide relevant information with proof (vids, data, etc.) and supporting arguments, then we might listen. All I know about this Zidane guy is that he does have a high PSR online, and his win rate with Hazama is an impressive 100%, so I'm inclined to believe you on most things. But I'm not convinced if I see something that seems to contradict what I know others ("top players" among them) have said, as well as my own experience. For example, I trust Spark, the Haku mod here, because he consistently posts facts, data, and well thought-out arguments while also having a couple vids and achievements to his name. I can test what he says and find out it's true. So, I believe I can trust what he says. On the other hand, what I do not trust is throat-shoving. Take the time to make in-depth explanations, and I think more of us would be willing to listen.

Lower Lambda and Haku. Raise Ara, Mu, and Carl. Now we got ourselves a chart. My own questionable addition: Mu is fucking broken. If you think she's merely mid-tier, you haven't played a top Mu. There, I said it.

Valkenhayn gameplay, Nico link is in the description: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFNAYGL01is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpQmMpsWYMI

@'BB caters to new player': it doesn't. I tried getting in a couple guys, didn't work. They liked CT because you could mash stuff, but CS tightened stuff up so now it's no longer fun for them. BB is actually hard to learn, hard to master for new players. It'd be a different game if they really meant it to be open to new players, but as it is, they're going for a "catch new players, make them level up" scheme that, imo, isn't working as well as they think. Personally, ASW will need to innovate BlazBlue soon or else it'll drastically drop in terms of sales. Game is fun to an extent, but it's lacking focus. As it is, it caters to intermediate-high skill players, and the sales just aren't there.

^ I think I saw some in the second vid I uploaded just now (which is PandaKing's post from Nico, but to YT). No idea as to uses just yet.

I think I'll keep uploading Nico vids to YT like these in the future if there's demand. For now, it's just the stuff I'll find interesting. I cut out unnecessary footage, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFNAYGL01is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpQmMpsWYMI

Yes, I do. My skills were forged in the fires of the (S)SFIV trials, CS Challenge mode, and Haku's horrifying [stuff] -> Enma -> [stuff] bnb + 5c -> 5c/2c links. I see what you mean, but Valk really does feel a lot easier. I guess that prior exp. makes his stuff feel natural. I saw another Valk online who did 5b -> 5c -> 236a -> DC -> j.B -> 5b -> etc. The DC reset the combo, but it hit if you were blocking low/mashing. Thanks for the info, though. I'll play around with that stuff.

Whoo, Valk is awesome! Combos aren't as hard as I thought they'd be. Couple links and height differences to watch for, but it's a far cry from what I've had to endure with Haku! Couple Q's: - Does nothing combo after [whatever] -> 236a? So far I RC it whenever I have the meter. - Does 5b -> 5c -> 236c really combo? It seems it's possible from what I'm reading around here, but I just can't get it to work. Weirdly, adding stuff between the 5b and 5c will make it combo, but it doesn't work otherwise. - Any use for 236b -> 236b in combos?