Sophisticat

Agreed, though offensive counters like those were designed to go with an offensive style. Haku has defensive counters with a defensive style. ... So the question is: why are they going in a direction where Haku is offensive, but his counters are defensive? They no longer complement each other. Let's hope this weekend's loke gives us some answers. Sounds like someone is salty. :P I digress, actually. I think he was fine in CT, he just needed a better j.D, the new j.C, 4c, the faster C's and meter gain, and the extra bit of overall damage. And maybe keep 6c non-charged at 17f, but add in the full charge 6c. Just like that, he instantly would have jumped a tier. In fact, I'd be curious as to his placement if they'd given him j.C and 4c from the beginning. But it should be noticed that his tier placement was because of the recovery on his moves, the fact he got zoned, and his performance vs. the top 3. The above corrects this, though he's perhaps too strong like that. >_> I wouldn't mind since we actually discuss relevant stuff which kind of overflows from on-topic stuff. EDIT: Also, I think we can open the Valk matchup thread. Wolf hype died last week, and I've met some pretty good ones already... Not that I'd have anything to input other than "Valk rapes Haku". >_>

Lol, a 10f 5c would be so broken. There's no way it'd be that good. Buffed to 11-12f at most like Eb says, imo. Just curious, how do Baiken's counters work for them to be "amazing"?

^ It has to be sj.'d, though.

214a (Gurren), you mean? I name specials just to prevent confusions like these, personally. Not sure what you mean it it, either.

I'll second the sentiment that this is the wrong direction for Hakumen. I don't mind him having an ability to zone, but it should not be his strength since it's not what he's designed for. It would make him very boring to play, too. I've always thought of Haku as an impenetrable fortress layered like an onion; the more you tried to get in, the more dangerous it would be. What I mean is, other characters should be trying to get in on him, and the closer you get to his close game, the more lethal it becomes. First, you need to get past his zoning tools (j.C, 4c), then you'd need to watch out for his mid-range damage (6c CH). Get closer, and you encounter his regular C moves and faster B's, where his frame traps and overheads would start posing a threat. Then you encounter his (theoretical... It's never been that good) close game which would consist of frame traps, gatlings, good pokes, and the almighty Hotaru. Even then, he would still have counters at his disposal if his normals/specials can't do the job right. Haku goes man-to-man; he doesn't zone. Justice never shies from a challenge. To me, this is the ideal version of Hakumen which CT got mostly right. A character with counters just isn't designed to be offensive.

New primer loss on burst is welcome. I think the current system just isn't working. When was the last time anyone saw a guard being broken? Yeah. If they make it easier to lose primers this mechanic could finally become interesting and a legit strat. As it is, it's pretty negligible unless you play a 4 primer character, and even then it's unlikely you'll see your primers gone any time soon if you know what you're doing.

I have just had an inspired vision of our new Haku: He plays ping-pong in the corner with his opponents. Like, his sword and specials now act like a bat and all he does is play Squash with the poor soul on the receiving end, albeit with some pretty hefty arm strength behind the smashes. Sounds like fun to me. No idea how high it floats. All we have is a couple descriptive sentences. You can't take lokes seriously either, since changes aren't final until the patch actually comes out. On 6c, all they need to do is let it link into stuff like it did in CT, and it's good to go. It would give him the ability to deal damage at mid-range, which he just can't do atm, but is the direction in which he's going. Currently, there is a serious dichotomy between his close- and mid-range game unlike in CT.

4c CH is awesome for the stagger. Free in vs. zoners, mixup if it's close, or you can push into the corner with either: 4c CH -> 3c -> 2b -> gurren -> [x] [1] hop 5b -> j.a - b -> dj.2a -> j.C or [2] kishuu -> 2c -> sj.C -> falling.C 4c is great. It's like j.C, but on the ground! To make Enma -> f.2c -> 2c easier, you would have to increase the hitstun on enma. This means, in turn, that j.2c can be done lower. Since the 5c -> 5c link is height-dependent, it's now easier to adjust your j.2c to the right timing. It also means that it's easier to do [whatever] -> Enma -> j.2c -> 5c -> enma than it is right now (which is harder than it used to be in CT). Whatever the case, making this combo easier also makes it easier to dish it out. Yeah, it's just stupid that j.2c doesn't work when it should. Sir, you are talking to none other than the pioneer of CT 6c CH combos. I claim copyrights on those. I do mourn their loss with you, however.

Moar Valk! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT61Gu-4VY

Vid is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT61Gu-4VY Much faster this time since I didn't have to cut out stuff + process. Yay.

Replying to both Wolf and Blade here. There's more to it than that. Easier f.C combo like that and 5c -> 5c is no longer a link. Yes please, my timing for air throw -> j.2c was f'ed up because of the startup. It's now more ambiguous to combo since it's more reliant on height. What's a Fumajin? Meh, 5D is fine. Use j.D instead. If you 3c too far, 2b does not combo. Since they removed 3c -> 3c, it would be good to have. Just give us CT 6a. ;_; 6b is not overhead, it's a taunt. No, it's there for a reason. Mugen combos would become retarded to watch. The stench! Begone, bridge dweller! *4c's into a bath*

If you ask me, he's most definitely S tier. :P (Incredible pressure and mixup in Wolf combined to high damage and mobility makes this very likely. Just look at how quickly he dispatched that Bang. He does seem to have trouble vs. Zoners and once he's being pressured, but his advantages seem to outweigh his weaknesses by a fair margin EDIT: On the other hand and going off this vid, I would be very amused if it turns out he makes quick work of the top tier, but loses to bottom. That'd be unique. :P) YT vid coming in a bit.

Eh, Mac said exactly what I thought after reading the new changes. Maybe they're trying to turn him into the "Corner King"? I don't like this new Haku at all. But! If he gets Mist Finer, count me sold. Not going to happen though, so we'll see how he turns out. EDIT: Yes! I agree with Qwerty that j.D needs more abuse. That thing is one of the bigger parts of my gameplay now, with Hotaru. Those two moves alone net me half the damage I get in matches. Salt water will run in my veins if these changes are implemented. Might switch to Valk or Jin after all.

Very minor correction: Hakumen has no ground gatlings outside of 6a 6b. His j.a gatlings to j.b. But considering you'll rarely, if ever, see that outside of a combo, the point is moot. Just wanted to point that out. Aside from that, very impressive work.

^ Noel, actually. Haku's design comes from one of his favorite concepts from High School. He brought it back in BB in the form of Hakumen. Since he has stated he intentionally keeps Noel in low tier, I think we should be thankful he doesn't give Haku the same treatment. :P On counters, I think they're too similar in risk/reward currently and only vary in terms of the situation. I wouldn't mind seeing varying startup/active/recovery frames that give them different uses. For ex, I'd use 5D if its damage were buffed and it had a ground slide that would be corner comboable or something. Or give us a 0f, 150% proration, 40f recovery in forced Fatal Counter state in a new 4D or something. Not going to happen, but it'd be interesting to play with. And bring back old 6a/b/c, please. ;_;

'k. Does Arc even know what it wants anymore? Changes like these just make the game more unfun. Haven't they realized that they need to increase sales if they want to sustain the franchise? >_>

More footage of that Valk I uploaded a week or two ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSWrjRSI3Y

Film, Gozaru, Suzume, A-92, 0, and the A-Cho player are the Hakus that come to mind. Suzume and A-92 are top, and I'd put Film and the A-Cho dude next in line.

6D nerf is bigger than just not being able to combo, too. It's one of the only ways to go into Mugen on hit. Now you need a 6a, 4c, or full 6c CH for long enough stagger, all of which are much more impractical than 6D... not that anyone cares about Mugen. >_> Didn't notice the 236b renka change, though. I like that, it'd make Hotaru even more powerful.

!@#$!@$#$ Can't we get some form of stability as Haku players? He's really quite balanced as it is, no need to make drastic shit like this. Yeah, loke, but these changes seem to cater to poor players who complain about him (which, imo, is a drastically declining player base. CS sold, like 4x less than CT so far. So, stupid changes are stupid).

Uploaded to YT and cut out non-Valk gameplay like last time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSWrjRSI3Y I'm really curious to see how Valk will be played when he's figured out. He might just be the most entertaining character to watch in motion.

Hype sig-able quote is hype. Looking forward to the CS Haku guide. On the Mu Q: that would be j.2a, like with Snake chains since it's safest. Unlike with Haz, you can count on any C move to cut lasers since you can follow the pattern, but I'd start off with j.2a / j.C. Best follow-up to 5D is 2b -> gurren -> etc. to catch them in case they don't tech.

Sj. isn't mandatory like in CT, but you'll still use it in some cases where 2c would launch them a bit too high for regular j.2a. Examples would be after renka(1)-enma, against some characters in corner combos, etc.

Alllllllllzzzzzzzzzz!!! You didn't answer my question. ...