Eshi

backdash is disabled on wake-up so command throw has to come out late, still 50/50 if it'll work

actually, yeah, she's really low tier. it's not obvious below high level play but she is extremely flawed. In other news... turns out that my close friends have their bachelor party on the same day as the upcoming tournament so fuck my life. The Jeffrey/Geoffrey Chie duo is going though, so... hope y'all have Chie experience! Then you don't know the match-up.

that explains why CH 5C > 5D is so hard to follow up. Cool. I never land her AOA against good players unless I'm using the super armor to predict DPs. The animation is not subtle and very slow. There's no way I can agree with you there, I don't use on high level players anymore because it never works.

I'll add some of my thoughts to your assessment as well.

don't forget how it puts her in jump state which counters throws. It has a short horizontal hitbox and whiffs vs. cross-ups but otherwise is 100x better than all of her other moves. Combined.

I feel like I've been duped. I've been going in as hard as I can on Elizabeth to get to a high level as soon as possible, but once I got a taste of it, I realized that all of the reasons I wanted to play her stop applying. She can not mix up with her persona without OMC. The best players will hold down back through everything, while reacting to Liz's 5D animation, then persona break her trying. She doesn't have anything to condition a different response. She's reduced to a keepaway character with 50-90 whiff recovery frames on everything until she gets enough meter to even think about going on the offense. Hopefully this is just the phase before I have an epiphany on how to get to that next level. But damn. It is depressing how intrinsically flawed of a character she is.

playing with banana ken last night helped me realize just how fucking terrible liz's mix-up is. at this rate I might switch characters, again.

S rank isn't actually that hard to get because holding A rank is really easy. Just throwing that out there. Holding S+/SS is when it starts getting tough (unless you just DC, ofcourse...).

learning how to play the mirror match is really important because the outcome is a straight up coin flip otherwise... it's pretty silly. It's starting to remind me of Arakune mirrors.

Just tested this yesterday. Apparently it works on SB Maragidyne as well... so basically, if liz commits to anything after a fullscreen knockdown, you get a free instant kill. lol.

just made hunted chimera ragequit from a player match lolol

I am not following. She doesn't have any 2 frame normals so it's not like she can punish mind crush after any blocked coup droit. it's actually better if she's at less disadvantage because then there's a greater chance of her pressing a button.

a blocked jC pushes the opponent back in the direction that Elizabeth is facing. Midscreen she can do cross-up jC > D Magarudyne; if they block the jC, they get pushed to the other side and crossed up again by magarudyne. Doesn't work if the opponent gets hit by the jC. However, against a cornered opponent she can do air turn jC > D Magarudyne to suck them out of the corner and then cross up for 6k. :D

I did not know that, thanks for the info!

Okay, how I feel about match-ups. My best offline experience is with Kanji, Chie and Mitsuru. I don't have a problem with Yu. His oki is super good but I find it easier to react to than Chie's. My blocking is pretty strong. Otherwise, he plays like any other character with good footsies. 5.5 sounds okay. Chie is a fucking bitch. Not only does she get ridiculous unreactable 50/50 oki from anything, but if she gets close and starts 5A staggering then Liz is fucked. It's a major symptom of Liz having the worst F-action on top of the slowest A pokes. I'm thinking it's 6-4, possibly worse. This is one of the characters I get the most practice against. Mitsuru is another bitch. I've practice against her so much that I have a much better grasp of the match-up, but the amount of shit Mitsuru shuts down with her A pokes and EX Coup Droit is so stupid. Hands down her worst match-up, possibly 7-3. I feel more comfortable against Naoto now but it's still a strange match-up. It takes some getting used to and it's pretty easy to get an unlucky persona break. 5.5 maybe. Kanji feels around the 6-4 area. He's distinctly disadvantaged but not as badly as we are against mitsuru. If we get a hit in on Mitsuru, she still has plenty of options to immediately turn the match back around... if Kanji gets a hit, you're probably dead. Aki and Labrys feel pretty even. Both characters have plenty of tools to deal with each other. SLabrys might be different, but I still have a ton to learn in that match-up. Yosuke's a dick. I actually don't terribly mind Aigis so far other than Megido in neutral. I have no clue what to think of Yukiko and Teddie, I have yet to play competent ones.

if by not using every time you mean never using outside of a combo, then yeah, I guess so. There's so many universal and character specific ways to punish it on reaction, I feel like it only ever works because of match-up unfamiliarity. On another note - what are people's feelings on Elizabeth in regards to relative character strength or exact match-up number? Sometimes I feel like she's shittier than Kanji and other times I feel gross as fuck. Though I guess it's sort of Liz's nature in this game with her insane risk/reward extremes. Also, I feel like Kanji is not nearly as disadvantaged in this MU as people assert. Liz has really strong tools for keeping him out, but god have mercy on your soul if he gets in or baits an f-action.

Is Banana Ken PR the actual Ken player, Banana Ken? His SLabrys is crazy good, by far the best match-up experience I've had so far.

I just figured out the dates of the weddings and it looks like I'll be able to go! Also asking the rest of GA/ATL who wants to go. How many players would be ideal for our state vs. state team?