Eshi

um i'm pretty sure that arakune still gets 100% curse for 50 meter and has meterless 100% curse combos and gets free 4-way mix-up in curse mode. he's a lot worse than he's ever been but he's still a better character than makoto, albeit only slightly =P

Yes. Of all the things in this thread it is the most definitionally accurate "gimmick", lol. I was wondering if imitating AOA's start-up with nothing and then briefly running forward to 2A would look convincing enough to trick people that have seen it before.

I'm not gonna get that emo about Makoto because she is definitely 100% viable and shows just how balanced of a game blazblue is. She's just been boring me really, really badly and BBCP doesn't bring much new stuff to the table so I'm picking up another character. She barely requires practice to keep fresh anyway =/

Honestly, I just want Makoto to be a real rushdown character instead of some pseudo-Ragna. That's all. In every game the strongest characters either have ridiculous footsies or ridiculous mobility, it makes me regret that I missed out on CS2 Makoto.

i don't mean to come off as whining but it's pretty disappointing how Makoto was clearly the worst character in BBEX yet she barely got buffed in CP so she's still the worst character. Meanwhile Taokaka, Hazama and Valkenhyn have been top tier for the last 4 games. Their balance decisions confuse me.

This match-up is extremely in Yu's favor and one of the worst in the game. You can't jump in on him because 2B is so good but you can at least go even with his footsies and zoning. I like 5AA > instant air turn dash jA crossup because it will blow up attempts to DP or super through the holes in her strings. Hit him as hard as possible as fast as possible with her lame shit to close out a round - if you get knocked down then you lose, his oki is way too good and Liz has no options or health to deal with it. Always respect his Ziodyne super, especially at full screen distance, because it blows up half of Liz's move list.

I noticed that you dropped neutral jump > jB > jA > jC > 2A > 5B sometimes because 5B whiffed. Buffering microdash into the 2A will get rid of the problem. 3:27 nitpick. If the opponent gets hit by raw Maragidyne fatal, optimal confirm is jB > garu or jA > jB > garu loops. Same for 5D fatal at 3:45. That hit confirm on CH C Garu was pretty cool.

Instant air turn dash > air turn jB. Inputs: 9A+C6 > A+C > jB Her normal air dash is slow and ridiculously easy to punish, but the angle of trajectory on her back air dash is way better and safer. It has nothing to do with cross-ups, it's just a safer way of jumping in on Labrys with jB because you should never ever ever normal air dash to her.

hit confirm 5D with 5B > Sweep > Garu on Labrys. You roll a lot in neutral as if on prediction, but it's not actually predicting anything and you got hit for doing it a couple of times. If you think she's going to IAD jB then predict with your own jB, way safer on whiff. Don't ever regular air dash towards Labrys, her 2B will eat you every time. Do IATD > AT jB instead. Honestly, get used to IATD as your default because it's 100x better than regular IAD. IAD throw at the start of a match is extremely unsafe and doesn't beat a lot of things. At 1:19, if you had OMC'd the Maziodyne you would've wall sticked her and ended the match with a burst safe combo. OMC Zio is really strong near the corner. At 2:51, I know it worked out because this labrys can't react to 5D but she was crouching and you could've hit confirmed with A Bufu. Work on different pressure variations. 5A/2A > 5B > 5C > 5D or 2C is extremely easy to avoid and often that's all you did - there's a lot of different things Liz can do to mix it up.

You have to input 6696 fast to get micro dash iad. It took me a loooong time to get it right in both directions.

Normally guillotine does knockdown on regular hit (like in a combo), but causes ground bounce when labrys travels a lot of distance before it hits the opponent. For some reason on Chie only, AT guillotine combos as the former but results in the latter so you can keep the combo going.

remember that garu loops are extremely easy to do on Labrys and Naoto, there's no reason not to do them after hits like 5D. you relied too much on 5D for mix-up and that doesn't work on good players offline. Ditto for AOA, except it's 5 times worse. You'll lose whole matches for using it as mix-up on good players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjXr424rvOQ&t=2m20s optimal combo from R-Action fatal.

TheG3arHead asked for some advice on the mirror match-up so I'll just post it here. A lot of liz's hate this match-up. In general, the Liz player that knows the character's flaws the best will win. Liz's defense is bad so fellow Liz players have to rely on fundamentals to exploit her weaknesses. Work on reacting to the animation of 2C|5D so the opponent can never land free damage. Roll 5C when it's used predictably. SB Maragidyne is punishable when used in neutral - even after counterhit R-Action - by running forward and rolling through the fire. Option select her R-Action with gatlings like 5AA - if the first hit whiffs then the gatling won't come out so jump and punish it. If you instant block 5B from about mid range distance then roll beats 5C. As for Liz's actually good tools: 2B - Godlike hitbox. It stuffs vertical jump-ins hard and beats her attempts to reset a block string since everything is minus or throw reset. It can be beaten by spacing herself at a sweetspot distance, AA baiting with Magarudyne, or safe cross-ups with IATD jA. jB - Godlike footsie tool for keeping the other Liz out. However, if they try to use it to get in then it straight up loses to sweep, and because of her hitbox gets confirmed into extremely easy Magarudyne loops. For example, if Liz ends a combo with 5C > jC and tries to IAD jB for pressure, sweep will win 100% of the time and net 4k damage. Maziodyne - Good at keeping Liz honest from full screen distance. As was said, A Zio punishes A Zio on block so get in the free damage. If you have 50 Heat then Zio OMC can get you in for free. SB Zio OMC gets you in super free. These are useful since jB and 2B are fairly annoying to get around when you're forced to approach, and if it hits near the corner then you get a hit confirm into oki or a reset. Garudyne - Godmode hitbox and the tornado part eats projectiles like 5B. Its only real downside is being minus on block but it's fairly safe and gets in for free with OMC. I'll edit this with more info as I think of it.

I actually have the opposite opinion, I really want to play Harley Quinn but she looks bad =/ Her specials all look boring and mostly combo fodder, I'm afraid she won't be solid. Joker looks cool though. Batman looks hella top tier.

yeah. I knew that wake-up mind charge was high risk and now I understand why. Liz players should only use gimmicks that only work once when it will secure an important victory, like a tournament match (most air tech resets). She has a lot of tricks that don't stop working when they've seen it once. My favorite is 2B OMC into fatal counter high/low/throw, but 5C 2OMC is working its way up there. She's got a lot of room for growth.

Really nice stuff! I'm gonna work on updating the OP, can't wait to experiment later.

I'm definitely still learning this match-up. I kept eating 5D's because I wanted to 2B them but didn't adapt to still being in block stun. I never thought about using breaking the persona with 5B and had no idea it could be jump canceled from there. That's mega useful tech. I like to use SB laser OMC as a free opportunity without getting punished, but it wasn't very good for this situation. It does combo but it probably wouldn't have killed anyway. I never even thought about going into Garu from there, that definitely would have killed. I have to log that one away. that made me so freaking sad, wanted to regular dash and got air dash instead :| I'm gonna stop going for the difficult garu loops. They're just too difficult to do reliably and almost got me killed a number of times.

Yeah. As I point out in the OP, if sweep doesn't land point blank then Labrys can't really get anything different and is easily disrespected. My solution is to never land it further than point blank, to even cut combos a bit short for absolute certainty. I don't understand your problem in the last sentence is. Hmm, I'm not sure if it would be fast enough to safe cross-up in this situation. Worth checking out to make sure of though.

Sweep is only used for the knockdown. Sweep > Tsurugi means to special cancel the sweep into laying down the Tsurugi, which puts Labrys at about 9-10 frames of advantage. That's why attempting another sweep on wake-up always loses to roll.

I said this in the OP - sweep does not work as an oki option. It has 15 frames of start-up no matter what, it will get rolled for free. Also sweep/guillotine is not only reactable, but can also be blocked by habitually shifting from crouch block to stand block since guillotine is always slower. That's why I think Labrys players should never do it on good opponents and always do meaty 5A instead. It explicitly beats every disrespectful wake-up option except for DP. I haven't experimented with meaty 5C yet, I've gotta try that some time. 2A is actually slightly more unsafe than 5A because it loses to command hop which has frame 1 invulnerability to lows

Yeah it's possible, ZomB does it every time I leave a small hole. It just annoys me that even in times where they HAVE to block it, they can still avoid it sometimes by accident.

air throw beats most of the options that beat 2B though. the first videos where I saw this tactic, the japanese Liz player kept air throwing players trying to avoid it. The situation is much more favorable than jumping away from SB flames where Liz is stuck in recovery. What worries me most are the times that people instant block the fire and randomly back dash out, but I don't think it can be executed consistently. o_O

Liz is ridiculously fun, she's not awful outside of match-ups with Yu/Mitsuru and it still takes a strong player to show it. I really resent the idea that Liz is some Tager clone that just goes for air tech resets all the time. Even if she is "gimmicky", she has so many more tricks in her arsenal that it should be impossible for opponents other than match-up experts to know them all and react correctly at all times. You certainly don't have to worry about that in the US >_>

5C > 2ABC [for OMC] > dash 5B > 5D Grab reset, except the persona starts right next to them and gives less time to react. I caught lots of people with it at Final Round. CHARACTER SPECIFIC: 5C > 2C > B Bufu > 5C On some tall characters (Yu, Mitsuru, etc) the 5C hits and you can squeeze in a bit more damage. On other characters, 5C whiffs and Thanatos runs behind them! It's really hard to tell the difference between 5C and 5D (both fatal counter for huge damage) and it's very difficult to stop him. It's only really bad against characters who escape it for free (Naoto, Teddie, Yosuke). if they jump forward then they risk eating 2B or unbreakable air throw. If they jump back then they're still brought into melee range eventually for elizabeth to get a mix-up (2B OMC for example). If they don't shake out at all, then Liz gets more damage without having to spend meter on SP Maragidyne. In my opinion it's strictly better than just doing SP Ragi every time.