Eshi

She's not useless in tournaments, but she does require extremely solid play. At a low-mid level she will utterly demolish *almost* everyone who doesn't know how to play the match-up. Once you start playing against the high level players who are in it to win it, it gets pretty tough. You have to completely change up your playstyle. If you don't care about getting 1st place then it doesn't matter, have fun looking at people's faces when they burst at wrong times. match-ups you need to look out for... honestly, all of them. P4U is the type of game where match-up knowledge can drastically differ between characters and it's especially true for Liz. The ones you should pay the most attention to either become much easier with some experience or are extremely common. * Naoto. She's 5-5 if you know it but she'll wreck you if you don't. Her F-Action completely shuts down all of Liz's persona mix-up and her projectile zoning works particularly well against Liz. You can not play this at far range AT ALL, everything gets beat by reaction F-Action or bullets. You must play at close-mid range with footsies and basic mix-up even for low level play, which is why she's unique. Fairly common for some reason. * Mitsuru. Awful match-up, and a really common S tier pick. 5A and Coup Droit beat literally everything Liz has so you have to mix turtling extremely hard - baiting bad anti-airs and coup droits with Garu and chipping away with Zio - with rushing her down at point blank range. Liz's midrange tools are completely unusable, all you can do is block patiently. * Kanji. Another extremely common pick, but extremely easy to beat if you footsie the shit out of him. Learn how to avoid his basic approaches and gimmicks so you don't get knocked down. This is the single match-up that Liz gets a huge break in, but it's way harder when he knocks Liz down. * Labrys. Another extremely common pick because she's easy as shit to use. Learn her basic knockdown game first (hint - abuse roll). Then get used to avoiding her gigantic fucking jB (roll helps here too) in situations where 2B will whiff. This is another match-up you can straight up win just by knowing it and playing decently, before high level play. * Yu. Main character so decently common. He's basically Chie's okizeme combined with Mitsuru's footsies, it's about as shitty as that sounds. Play mostly like mitsuru and get used to his oki, but it is a bit coin-flippy so don't feel bad for losing to it.

I don't mind blocking and guessing games. Part of it is because I got good by playing against Ivysaur for years and had to learn to block Carl's ridiculous pressure/mix-up. What I hate is those characters that give a sense of, there's no neutral position that you can feel comfortable in because my character is a pixie bitch that dictates the entire pace of the match. I have a lot of trouble understanding how to play it.

I only dislike playing Yosuke. I like playing against everyone else even if the match-up sucks. But Yosuke is a fucking stupid character, I wish the whole Taokaka design stayed in blazblue forever.

I am down!

so, vs. ABA I've gotten this glitch on 3 separate occasions. I go for a normal throw at the exact same time ABA inputs key command throw - her key animation comes out and she gets a throw break. Is this a console bug, or was this in the arcade version too? I'm new blood so I wouldn't know.

I have never heard this slang in my entire life, haha

honestly, making 2C air unblockable wouldn't have the impact that people would want. The real reason why Liz's persona mix-up doesn't work is because it's too slow. This would stop people from disrespecting it, but high level players that rely on reacting to 5D would still get a free persona break every time off it. It would instead give her stupid air tech resets so I'm not a fan. I can't think of anything I'd do to Liz other than buff her defense. removing F-Action throw break, making it faster so it's not so ridiculously easy to option select, giving her a functional guard cancel. I wouldn't shy away from other buffs but I really like how she plays now, just not the skewed risk/reward that lets top tiers eviscerate her. Oh yeah, I would fix that retarded fucking glitch that lets people backdash in the middle of EX Maragidyne, that shit happened to me AGAIN last friday -_-

THIS TIMES ONE THOUSAND. Though, most guard cancels honestly aren't good. Defense in general sucks in P4 unless your character has a good f-action. notice how every high tier character does (except aigis, who has orgia mode backdash ).

Y'all know about this, right? makes chie a lot easier

I think I found a safe jump setup with liz. End a combo with a sweep juggle that lets them emergency tech (I did 5D > jB > jA > jC > 2A > 5B [ONE HIT] > sweep to test). Air dash forward on the earliest frame possible and do jA. Tested on Mitsuru & Akihiko using DP on what I hope is the earliest possible frame, I landed and blocked it every time.

the problem is that 2B is godlike - it goes up much much higher than most other character's 2B, so if Liz uses it at the height she needs to bait it, yosuke will probably recover already. I really hate this match-up, there's so few areas for her to approach it comfortably.

Persona is not low in comparison to the other popular choices like kof and ttt. It only looks low because smash players are spamming votes for a game that no one outside of their insular community cares about. I'll eat my shoe if it makes the roster

marlinpie and nerdjosh honestly aren't as strong as people think [in P4U]. They're definitely beatable, especially by a character who puts a huge emphasis on the opponent's match-up knowledge like Liz. Naoto is tough.

magarudyne isn't very useful for baiting yosuke because that fucking 2B extends to infinity. I think liz just needs to play this match-up on the ground, or stick with very low IADs. She can't compete with his 2B. honestly this match-up is as bad as mitsuru, but for different reasons.

it came up a while ago in the tricks and gimmicks thread and I said the same thing about getting a hard knockdown, but no one listened >_> I don't mean to come off as confrontational or condescending, if I have.

Atlanta money match between two of the south's best P4U players! ZomB (Chie) vs. Eshi (Liz)

fakku

For me, the main usefulness of meaty 5D isn't actually the grab, but rather that it pushes the opponent away when used at the perfect time. So if they try to reversal on close range wake-up thinking it will punish her, it will instead whiff in her face for a huge punish. From midscreen, I usually just air dash if I want to go for mix-up. it's unlikely that good players won't react to any of liz's persona mix-up. From full screen, I like to go for a super meaty 2C and catch them with a frame trap. I'm wondering though, is there a situation where meaty 2C > 5C will frame trap and not be vulnerable to 5 frame 5A? or maybe slower 5A's? I don't know where to look at her frame data.

I've noticed that 10-20% of the time I go for air turn jD to extend the grab range, I accidentally gold burst and look like a fool. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. A quick fix for this is to input 7AB4 first to get an IAD backwards, which can cancel almost immediately into jD to lose little range and the backwards momentum will make it safer on whiff.

hey volpe. in case you haven't read this yet. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14446-Elizabeth-vs-Chie&p=1406445&viewfull=1#post1406445 I can go even with ZomB now, feeling much better about Liz :3

Just letting people know: I've had some amazing breakthroughs on the Chie match-up and am now fully convinced that it's 5-5. Liz is looking better and better every day!

Okay guys, I found out a SHIT TON of useful tech for this match-up. The first one is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND EVERY ELIZABETH PLAYER NEEDS TO KNOW THIS. If Chie knocks Elizabeth down midscreen with sweep and attempts to go for her normal persona oki, Elizabeth can backdash out of it with 100% accuracy. I shit you not. It won't work if Chie is right on top of Liz when she sweeps, but the number of situations this happens in is really small. In order for Chie to reliably be close enough to get oki, she has to end her combo in AOA - essentially, she needs an air juggle. So as long as you DO NOT LET THIS BITCH HIT YOU IN THE AIR, you can backdash her oki. This completely changes the match-up. Now for some lesser tech: * If Chie is going crazy on you with 5A spamming, you can instant block and counterthrow her out of it. Once you show her this, she has to go for 5A > 2A stuff or other frame traps. Her 5A pressure is not invincible! * If Chie tries to use meteor super in Elizabeth's face, Elizabeth can punish it guaranteed with 100% accuracy by doing this: 5A > jB > jA > jc > jA > jB > jC. As long as Chie is getting hit by buttons, her meteors will explode the moment they enter the screen. This combo keeps hitting Chie constantly so you avoid all of her meteors. So, if you're rushing her shit down and you expect her to do something then briefly pause. If she does F-Action, quickly counterhit punish. If she does God Fist super, roll through and punish. If she does meteors, do this. She has to respect liz on wake-up! * In neutral, Liz's strongest tools are IADB jB, Magarudyne, 2B and 5A. 5A has a deceptively long hitbox! These tools actually work really well against Chie so abuse the hell out of them. Chie's 5C can be deadly, but just like Liz's 5C you can prediction roll it and punish its recovery. Just don't underestimate how fast Chie's ground run speed is. My verdict: This match-up is even! REJOICE!

Eshi BB / P4U

don't bother, the two elizabeth players including damosu got crapped on pretty hard the only Naoto player got crapped on too.