Eshi

Elizabeth has a lot of entry level "Do you know the match-up?" gimmicks to beat uninformed players for free. But she is capable of so much more than that, she's just not ridiculously autopilot like Chie or Aigis and requires inventive finesse with her toolset. She's B tier even if she's the worst character in the game.

Wow. Could that be hit confirmed into 4k without meter? That's ridiculously good proration.

Thank you jesus! That start-up is one of the reasons I fucking hate this match-up in Extend.

After 214ACC hits: micro dash > 9 > falling j4C When executed precisely vs. an emergency tech, this is a safe jump that beats all DPs slower than Inferno Divider. After 2D LV1 hits in the corner: neutral jump, falling j4C Same safe jump, but if spaced correctly will also beat rolls (if I remember correctly)

wow I got stickied lol ;3 I'll try to update my first post soon with some of the info being posted here, but I'm hella busy this week. I'm really happy to have rekindled the interest of other Labrys players! She's a really fun character.

I don't think anyone has mentioned B Mabufudyne > D Maragidyne oki yet. If the opponent shakes out of ice on time, they're forced to block Maragidyne and Liz gets one or two mix-ups for free. Best one is IABD > air turn jA or IABD > land > 2A. She can also do jump forward > air back dash - varying the timing slightly will have Liz either land on the same side or the opposite side, it's quite ambiguous. I really like this oki situation so I got for it whenever I can. I found a use for SB Mabufudyne to set it up: 5AAA > SB Mabufudyne > 2C > meaty D Maragidyne. Unlike the above setup where the opponent can choose to not shake out of ice, this is much more difficult to avoid.

I really disagree with that article. Elizabeth is one of the worst characters in the game for sure but only because of her really bad match-ups against Yu and Mitsuru. Otherwise she is extremely viable. She has other bad match-ups but they're completely winnable. Some of her tools are bad but some of them are amazing, so stop using the bad ones when they're too high risk (changes by match-up). I totally disagree with the idea that Elizabeth has a lot of useless moves. Of course her instant kill supers are useless. Literally everything else has a useful purpose though, and 2D isn't bad at all. Honestly, the only area that Liz is cripplingly weak in is defense for obvious reasons. But even then she still has 2B, Mind Charge and a decent backdash that all work in the right situations. She has quite a few decent offensive options that all lead to retarded as fuck damage. Her neutral is actually fairly strong. I really love Liz's completely unique playstyle and don't at all think she's cripplingly weak.

I'm so happy that I could meet so many old friends. This tournament was awesome! Top 8 for BB and P4A were fun to watch, I wish I could've stayed for Guilty Gear too. Chosen Ninja - Your Yukiko is extra gross. I wish I could've gotten a lot more matches with you, I really need to learn patience and answers for that match-up. Lord Knight - you are just too strong. Your blocking in P4A finals blew my mind. Setsuna - I'm super happy that I could help a fellow low tier player out :D XCross - Literally the only other Liz player in the tournament. T_T

Hey I got some stream footage of myself at FR o.o http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234 00:00 - me vs. Chosen Ninja (Yukiko) 15:36 - me vs. VR Raiden (Yu) 1:13:04 - me vs. Lord Knight (Teddie) There's quite a few things I could've done better against VR Raiden, so sad I lost that match.

Don't worry about it Jackie, you should come down anyway. I can think of a few ways around the situation. I'm going down to FR to register today, I'll see if I can talk with Larry about the situation. bring your adapter just in case - if worst comes to worst, you could still be able to use it as long as your opponents say it's okay (and considering how few people are aware of this rule or any of the hearsay, I doubt anyone will care).

One or two matches I saw with a Japanese Labrys was definitely my inspiration for figuring out more about this setup. That 5DD corner oki sounds really interesting! I'd like to find out more about it. I call it IATD (instant airturn dash).

I'm a relatively new Labrys player, but once I began to explore Labrys' options off Tsurugi I really fell in love with the character. Through careful research and optimizing, I've found some absolutely monstrous setups! So, I decided to start this thread to explore an alternative play style for Labrys - creating optimal reset setups with Tsurugi. If anybody has additional input or tips to improve the guide, PLEASE post and I will update it! "Normal" Sweep > Tsurugi Oki We all know the typical oki in this situation (or do we?): Sweep [Low] Guillotine [High] dash throw [throw] some IAD cross-up thing [cross-up] roll [cross-up and DP safe] nothing [DP safe] However, this shit sucks, mostly due to the fact that one option from the opponent beats multiple from Labrys: Roll beats everything except throw and doing nothing Up-Back beats everything but sweep DP beats everything but roll and doing nothing This means that if Labrys wants to go for an actual mix-up, playing disrespectfully with these options will at least soft counter everything except throw/sweep/roll. Even if Labrys refines her oki solely to these options, she has a 2/3 chance of guessing wrong unless she does nothing. That's not even rock-paper-scissors. That's CT Tager tier bad. Keep in mind, however, that it's all Labrys can really get if she lands a sweep from further than point blank. How to optimize Sweep >Tsurugi oki So if her core oki game is so bad, how can Labrys get around it? Simple - ALWAYS HIT WITH SWEEP AT POINT BLANK RANGE. Labrys ends close enough that she gains another option for oki - meaty 5A (just micro dash to get close enough). Plugging 5A into the above list, we now have: Roll loses to Nothing, 5A, and Throw Up Back loses to 5A, Sweep DP loses to Nothing, Roll 5A is clearly superior to throw and sweep, so never do throw or sweep. We've now reduce the opponent to 3 options - A) Try to press buttons and lose to meaty 5A B) Try to DP and lose to a prediction C) Block. Not bad! So what do we do when the opponent finally decides to respect meaty 5A and block? THAT'S THE BEST PART! Sweep > Tsurugi B[Hold] > dash 5A > [Release] > IAD What's that? You're not playing Shadow Labrys? Don't need to! When Tsurugi is timed correctly, this cross-up is literally unreactable. From personal experience, releasing Tsurugi as soon as 5A gets blocked gives the perfect timing. Sweep > Tsurugi B [Hold] > dash 5A > [Release] > 9 Feints an IAD cross-up. Start doing this once the opponent starts guess when a cross-up is coming. Note that after the blocked 5A, Labrys is COMPLETELY DP AND COUNTER ASSULT SAFE! Also the block stun on Tsurugi is long enough to get one last mix-up without worrying about pesky DPs. Sweep > Tsurugi B [Hold] > dash 5A > [Release] > 9 > (land > 2A) OR (jA) Interestingly enough, Labrys can control which side of the opponent she lands on by slightly altering the release of Tsurugi. 5 way mix-up?! Not that Labrys REALLY has to hit with sweep at point blank range, in order for this to work. Sweep > Tsurugi A > dash > roll Now that the opponent can only really guess between DP or block, roll cross-up actually serves a purpose. Conditioning with 5A makes the cross-up more likely to hit and DP can be punished easily. Corner Oki While Labrys obviously can't cross up a cornered opponent, she does gain some interesting opponents. Sweep > Tsurugi A [Hold] > Throw > [Release] This mix-up becomes much stronger in the corner since Labrys can now throw as early as is possible. Sweep > Tsurugi A/B [Hold with C] > 5A > AOA > [Release] 5DD Oki In certain situations - specifically off of corner hit confirms - Labrys can also use 5D and 5DD to set up oki! I lack personal experience with this, so here's someone else explaining it: [*]Will update later for strong options with 5D and 5DD oki Optimal Hit Confirms As we all know, most of Labrys' combos are underwhelming until she gets red axe. You'll be lucky to get 2k damage off of a hit confirm until then. Instead, we'll focus on constantly resetting the same Tsurugi oki situation until she has enough meter to kill. Kind of like a B tier Chie. [*]Tsurugi hits > falling jB > dash 2A > 5B > sweep > Tsurugi Green axe? No meter? This is all Labrys can really. [*]Tsurugi hits > 5B > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi B > micro dash 5A > 2B > run closer > sweep 25 meter to get 400 more damage and a little better axe meter. [*](jA >) 5AA > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi A > 2A > 2B > Tsurugi hits > dash 5B > sweep Doesn't work with jB at Green Axe or lower. One of the easiest ways to get the Oki train started. [*]2A > 5B > Chain Knuckle A > SB Extra Attack > dash 5A > sweep Only works in yellow axe, but hey, it's better than a 3 hit combo. [*][Red Axe] 5A > Tsurugi > Charge BD > 5AA > 2C > Charge BD > 2A > 2B > Guillotine B > Beast D Auto hit confirms in red axe, it's pretty much all labrys can do. They're probably dead anyway. Corner Only Hit Confirms [*]5A>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>214A (5DD oki) [*]2A>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>214A (5DD oki) [*]Grab>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>214A (5DD oki) [*]Grab>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>5DD>Charged 5B (5DD or Tsurugi oki) All confirm to work with green/yellow axe. Should also work from raw tsurugi starter. [*][Yellow Axe] AOA > D > 5AA > 2C [2 hits] > 5D > D > Charge 5B > dash 5B > Sweep This swag as fuck combo deals a ton of damage. Cancel into 5D ASAP in order to only get 2 hits from 2C. The timing on 5DD and charge 5B is a little strange but it's easy to land every time once you know it. Other Useful Info Labrys, Shadow Labrys and Elizabeth are all completely fucked vs. 5A oki. Their DPs can not be used at all to escape - Labrys and Slabrys' have super armor so Labrys just jump cancels to safety, and Elizabeth's DP is too slow to connect before Labrys can just jump or counter DP. Without 50 meter they have no answer so go crazy on them.

well I apparently screwed up and didn't register at all for final round somehow. also DC and Yohosie (if they pull through) asked me to register them too since they can't get here until friday. I'm planning on going to work and then take a half day so, I'll try to be home by the time you guys arrive. At worst my boyfriend will be there to let y'all in.

I plan on entering GG at final round so I may still be at the venue. Or I'll still be hanging out, I think it's pretty likely. If you arrive around 8:20ish then my boyfriend will be home anyway to let y'all in, if y'all don't want to go to FR on friday.

For the people staying at my house this final round weekend - when do y'all plan on getting here? Meeting at my house or at the venue?

Against a person blocking near the corner, do 236AB OMC > run up AOA. SB Zio stays active super long and covers almost the whole startup animation of AOA, then ends just before AOA connects. No one sees this coming the first time!

Noel's drives are all beatable, but if a good player hits with one of them then BOOM 4k damage. She's very high risk high reward - people dislike her because playing "disrespectfully" with drives is top tier against players who can't adapt.

Gonna try to get my passport today, I'm planning on attending. I've never left the country, can't wait for it!

it got buffed back mostly to its old self, AND it works on hakumen now since drives are blockable. It's pretty much the bee's knees.

BBCP is right around the corner, but until then I hope that some Makoto players can benefit from this guide to hold them off in EX until then. Note that this is how I specifically play Makoto explained for general use and as concisely as possible. I will neither list impractical combos nor combos that are extremely similar to others (to reduce bloat). I'm also not including exact damage or heat numbers since it varies with small changes - just keep beating shit until it dies. (for the record, things in square brackets [] mean they are optional) ((I hope St1ckbug appreciates this!)) A1) Midscreen A2) Meter combos A3) Counter hit combos B1) Corner C1) Throws BONUS) Okizeme A1) Midscreen: Generally, Makoto players choose between optimizing damage or optimizing distance traveled to the corner where Makoto becomes much stronger. However Makoto can somewhat optimize Okizeme if she wants to (read the end if you care how). Consider jD instead of normal combo enders for an air juggle to push them further to the corner, especially if Makoto can continue after it. 5B > 6A > 5B > 5CC > 214AC(C*5) This maximizes damage off of standing confirms. Note that the extra 6A > 5B gatling is disabled if 2B has already been used. 5B > [5C >] 6C > 214ACD LV3 Sacrifices damage to push further to the corner. I tend not to do 5C unless I know it will hit - it can't cancel into 6C on block, and 5CC is garbage on block. 5B > 6C > 214A on block however is far less disadvantageous. 6C > 214ACA This shit is terrible, I never do it. ON CROUCH ONLY: 5B > 5CC > 214ACB > 2A > 5B > 6A > air combo Squeeze in more damage on crouching opponents, take whatever you can get! ON CROUCH ONLY: 5B > 5CC > 214ACB > 2A > 5B > 2D LV1 > 5B > 6A > air combo Off of plain 5B or 5C starter this is possible and the damage is nice. 6B > C The above combo also works here and is optimal. jCC > 5CC Ditto for here. Adding any more hits in between will not work. 3C > 2C > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo In case 3C actually goes under something! WHOA! {214AC}B > 2A > 5B > 2D LV1 > 5B > 6A > air combo Only risk this mix-up if you have meter to RC on block. Substitute hit confirm with 5CC on counter hit. A2) Midscreen combos with meter Don't put too many extra hits in the beginning of these combos or they'll drop/lose value. When in doubt, just do a normal BnB. 5B > 5C > 6C > 214ACD LV3 > Particle Flare [2 hits] > run underneath > 2D LV3 > air combo This combo really shines when it switches the opponent into the corner. 5B > 5CC > 214ACC RC > micro dash 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo A bit less damage but much easier, won't switch sides, and carries a farther distance. 5B > 5CC > 5D LV2 RC > 2C > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo I personally don't do this combo but it's very similar reward to the one above. Pick whichever you like. Parry D LV3 RC > 2D LV3 > [dash 2C >] 214ACB > 5CC > air combo In case you ever actually land a parry! WHOA! A3) Counter hit combos Counter hit, even fatal counter, doesn't benefit Makoto very much in this game - most should just be confirmed the same as a normal hit. There are som notable exceptions though. 5C > 2C > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo Makoto's go-to punish on moves with lots of recovery. 214AC OR 214ACA > micro dash 2A > 5B > optimal ground confirm Hit confirm off of frame traps. 214[b or C]D LV3 > dash 2C > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo Only confirmable on counter hit, it's high risk so don't use Lightning Arrow often. B1) Corner No special mention for meter will be given here since the use is obvious - if it will kill then use Particle flare, if it won't then don't because you'll lose oki. Which is bad. If you choose to end in PF, then either do 5CC > PF to keep it simple or (5CC > jB > JC > jD LV3) * 2 > 2362366D if you feel like a baller. I'm only including the most optimal combos since many similar combos exist. 5B > 5CC > 5D LV3 > 5B > 6A > 2D LV3 > 2C > 214AD LV3 > [micro dash] 5CC > jB > JC > jD > 5CC > jB > Corona Upper LV3 More damage can be tacked on to the end, but this optimally minimizes Makoto's landing recovery. By all means add more if it can kill. 5B > 5CC > 5D LV3 > micro dash 2D LV3 > 2C > 236AD LV3 > micro dash 5CC > jB > JC > jD LV3 > dash 2B > 5B > 6A > jB > Corona Upper LV3 5B and 6A whiff on Jin and Valkenhyn's sliding hotboxes, therefore the previous combo must be amended. This combo is interchangeable on other characters too, but 236AD is noticeably harder to time on some (especially Noel). 5B > 6C > 214ACD LV3 [or 2] > [micro dash] 5A > 6A > 2D LV3 > 2C > 214AA > 6A > jB > JC > jD LV3 > dash 6A > 5D LV3 [> air combo or oki] I use 6C a lot in pressure, so sometimes I need to hit confirm off of it like this. Note that this will not work if Makoto is slightly far from the corner, but she can do LV2 instead which gives her time to connect with micro dash 5A. C1) Throws Whether it's a green throw or a TRM setup, I love throwing with Makoto. B+C > 214ACB (delayed a lot) > 5CC > air combo My go-to easy throw combo. The first hit is the only hard part. B+C > 214AA > micro dash 6A > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo Optimal damage, but much trickier to execute. I always forget to do it in matches. 4B+C > 2B > 5C > 2D LV1 > 5B > 6A > air combo Does less damage so only do it to switch your opponent into the corner. jB+C RC > 2C > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > air combo This shit does 2K damage raw, but RC adds ~2k so it's worth it. CORNER ONLY: B+C > 214AA > 5B > 6A > 2D LV3 > 2C > 214AD LV3 > micro dash 5CC > jB > JC > jD LV3 > dash 6A > 5D LV3 [> air combo or oki] BONUS) Okizeme This is less about combos and more about theory. Makoto's okizeme isn't great, but sometimes optimizing damage puts her in a really shitty position. The biggest offender are mid screen air combos (jB jC jB jC Corona Upper) - this leave Makoto with tons of recovery frames and completely resets to neutral positioning. For this reason, I personally omit some hits so that Makoto lands faster after Corona Upper and therefore gains more favorable positioning. Why does this matter? People tend to ignore emergency techs and roll away instead since the recovery is so long. When Makoto lands faster, she actually gets a chance to punish this by either chasing the roll tech or picking them up immediately with a blue beat 2B for even more damage. My favorite choice is to input Particle Flare as an option select - if they neutral tech then 2B recovers and I pressure as normal, but if 2B hits as a blue beat then it immediately cancels into Particle Flare. Nothing says FUCK YOU quite like killing someone off of that. Note that this will not work on highly prorated combos, in which case it's more beneficial to just chase a roll. In the corner, the same principle for Corona Upper enders apply but even more so. You do not want to get stuck in so much recovery that the opponent just rolls out of the corner. Better yet, ending combos with 5D gives you plenty of time to perfectly position oneself for roll punishes or meaty orb (albeit it's much worse in EX). 214ACCx5 actually gives decent okizeme mid screen. If you predict that the opponent will not emergency tech, then immediately micro dash jump towards them. Falling jC will lose to DP's as fast as Ragna's (extremely few) or frame one super armor, but will safe jump against everything else. Nifty eh? Once the opponent has learned some respect, you can do 50/50 mix-ups with air dash jC or land 2B instead. If you think the opponent will not emergency tech (very likely) then run up, pick them up with 2B and squeeze in a bit more damage/corner carry until the lesson is learned.

hey I'll be helpful for once :31 - wat. you might as well forget Liz has this super, don't use it. :46 - hit confirm with 5AAA instead, that's the only thing that works at that distance 1:07 - you got lucky. Wakeup throw on Kanji is asking to die. 1:54 - I don't even. Don't use AOA randomly in neutral like that, other people can bit Liz's is terrible. 2:16 -2:22 - why are you playing like this? Liz is at advantage at neutral and on wake-up, no need to random out on a life advantage 3:05 - did you wakeup AOA kanji on purpose...? 3:26 - learn the hitconfirm 5D > 8 > jB > jA > jC > 5A > 5B > stuff. Every liz needs to internalize this and it works on everybody. General observations: do more jB's to space Kanji out, that and 2B are Liz's strongest tools. If you notice Kanji DPing after every single 5C, then IAD jB instead to punish it for free. :53 - wat. that was an easy hitconfirm with 5A > 5C > whatever, don't just let that huge damage drop. General observations - this yosuke was bad so it didn't matter, but in general. You use EX fire way too much in neutral. Yosuke's EX dash has projectile invincibility and can punish it on reaction, try not to rely on it. You're also very trigger happy on the DP, don't get so scared when you're put into a little pressure. This Naoto is bad. Really bad. Randomly doing firewalls in neutral is a free B+D punish for her from full screen, better players will wreck you for even thinking about it. 1:19 - always hitconfirm Naoto/Yosuke/Akihiko/Liz/Labryses with 5B > 2AB > garu loops. It's easy gigantic damage, no reason not to. No comment.

I don't mean people or anything, just the specific in-game situation that's in reference. Just curious. In general though, Liz does need to keep people honest with the few options she has since it's not like she can fall back on anything else...

that still doesn't help me understand what this context is lol

mindfucked about what?

by "buffer" I mean the dash is buffered into the DP, eg 6623C. It's mostly for timing because it makes the DP come out later, but it makes the DP travel farther as a plus. Hotaru is invincible on frames 1-14 and is only active on frames 12/13 - as long as my DP (10 frames of invincibility) comes out after the third frame of Hotaru, it will win. It's dangerous because it relies on predicting how early you'll activate hotaru. If it's delayed longer, then it'll stuff the DP as normal. Also since I'm dashing for the first few frames I'm vulnerable to meaties.