Dacidbro

Then I look forward to you teaching me Bang v Jin, because I literally do not even understand what you guys are saying right now

I just spent about ten minutes thinking of something I could be "more optimistic than" as a funny comparison, but couldn't. So instead, I'm just going to happily brush my teeth and tuck myself into bed.

I don't think that's true, but I would really love to be proven wrong. Maybe I'm just biased because Bang's backdash really sucks against Jin in particular..

I- hey.. what

I think the function is that if done right, the j2C is safe-jumped, even for moves as fast as Jin's D DP. It could be really strong, especially since it seems to pick up non-neutral tech for free. Also, j2C > Tsubaki is not at all bad, because of the thread of j2C 2B or Renka at roughly the same speed. It 'looks' bad, but it's actually really hard to block right.

Hey, I was nice enough to say the image was godlike

Haha, cheers Osuna. I thought the same kind of thing when I saw the image. If you're really intelligent, and pick your places well, Tager's really not that bad. His hard call-outs are devastating. That being said, that image is godlike

I don't actually see why this is so hard to understand.. if your character's defensive options are weak, you need to be defensively monstrous. If your character's defensive options are strong, you don't (comparatively), because they do the leg-work for you.

If you IB the move before his 2D you can probably dash Jayakou it. Other than that, if gatling'd to, just IB and read the followup. Thrown at neutral, you want to go over it if you can, because he's committed to it for a massive amount of time on whiff.

Jin's pressure isn't very strong? What O_O Are we playing the same game

Badass, I'm there. Thanks Joe. :]

Any update here? I heard ghost stories it might be pushed back a weekend?

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE WEEK :yaaay: :yaaay: :yaaay: :yaaay:

Bang's 3C is extremely high risk. Jumping chains beat it effortlessly, free punish, and just blocking it is a free CH 3C at most ranges, at the very least a knockdown. I did not forget anything, as I suggested primarily to remain airborne with chains, and to just consider 3C as an option against grounded Bang. If Bang connects a 3C, he has read you very hard, whereas Hazama 3C can be thrown generally safer with higher reward. The range on Bang's 3C is very nice though, so certainly respect it. It's much much riskier to punish whiffs with anything else, as you will likely just get caught by the active frames. Shutting down his offense and getting most of the meter back is more important than getting another 2k damage, especially since most of the whiff punishes will Fatal anyway. When you say a "5B is safer", I don't think you understand the context I am talking about, because a 5B will not perform the function required; it's not invulnerable and it's not far enough range. The matchup at the beginning seems quite even. If Bang is allowed to get a bumper or two, he has a slight advantage. When Hazama gets 50 meter, it's very very hard for Bang. Without nails, it becomes even worse. So, Bang needs to make every moment count, or he will lose convincingly. The longer you make the matchup take, the stronger Hazama becomes and the weaker Bang becomes.

Neutral; -Chains can keep Bang from airdashing and setting bumpers. If you don't use your zoning tools, Bang will have an incredibly easy time approaching. -Stay out of poison nail airdash range, which is 45 degrees from where Bang is airdashing. If you're blocking or getting hit by the poison nail, try to adjust accordingly. It's Bang's strongest tool, so try to pre-empt it. -Staying above Bang is pretty good. You can use downward and forward chains to control his space, and he doesn't have a true anti air. Just be careful to respect his extra air dash. Offense; -Run constant 2A pressure, as it beats every option he has except for backdash. It's very safe. If he presses 6D, jump straight up and j2C, that way you don't have to guess. RESPECT the 6D, it's one of Bang's highest damage starters, so you want to make him scared to use it. -Use 2B and 3C or tight gatlings if your opponent Bang is using 5D and 2D a lot. Remember, guardpoint for 5D starts on 4th frame, 2D on 7th; they aren't particularly strong on defense. -If you ever see a guard point early enough, you can 214D~B for a free fatal. -Once you've conditioned him to fear your options which beat his guard points, it becomes much easier to establish and continue your pressure, especially when utilizing your command grab (He has no reversals that beat your command grab without heat, so make sure you use it). -Try to keep your pressure safe, even if you don't open him up just building meter means you're winning. Defense; -Without meter, this is extremely dangerous. Use your backdash and try to be patient. Watch out for 5A/2A 2B frame traps. Mashing out highly unrecommended at most points, but do so if you have a strong read or your opponent patterns some key string. -With meter, it gets much easier. Hold onto your meter (The implication of Jayakou is often stronger than actually using it, against a good opponent) to prevent him from committing to most of his frame traps or mix up, and backdash or jump out often. Once he gets frustrated with the ease at which you are getting out of his pressure, punish him for trying to re-establish the previous rhythm. Basically, defense can center around abusing the risk-reward of Jayakou since Bang can't throw any of his important normals (Punish chart below). Normals to look for when holding Jayakou; Punish on gatling; Anything gatling'd from 2A is punishable with Jayakou. If you have quick fingers, make it hurt. Same deal if you manage to IB 5A. While that's significantly more difficult, it's very useful because Bang needs to rely on the quick 5A stagger now. Punish on whiff; These are a bit more intricate, but easy to notice. If your barrier guard causes any of the following to whiff, you can Jayakou the whiff with good reflexes. NOTE: This takes a strong understanding of your opponent's usual routines and spacing. Non-dash jayakou; 2A Dash jayakou; 5B, 2B So given intelligent play, you just need to survive to 50 meter. If you get the first hit, it becomes much easier, because Bang's defensive options don't work particularly well against Hazama. Remove his guard points from the equation with intelligent pressure, and build up your meter. If you get hit first, you will need to play very smart on defense, and you may have to burst if he opens you up in the corner, but his mid screen pressure is relatively low risk. If you can keep yourself from getting corner combo'd, you can usually make it to 50 meter, which is where Hazama starts to convincingly win the matchup. Being very slick with the mobility will be important to keep it difficult for Bang to approach, because that is of course one thing he does EXTREMELY well. If Bang does manage to get bumpers out, be sure to control the space around them intelligently. Also, pokes against grounded Bang may not be a bad idea. He's one of few characters that has very bad risk reward on grounded footsies, even with hard callouts, so if you feel like he's moving along the ground a little too much try to call him out with a 3C or at least feint a chain to see how he reacts.

Defensive qualities are the traits of good players. However, they are not necessarily vital when your character has such astronomically skewed risk reward for reaction oriented reversals that are so blatantly overpowered as Jayakou, because your opponents are forced to tip-toe around you, which is not the case when you're playing Bang. Meaning, when you play Bang, you get the full offensive capabilities of every character, and the risk reward is steeply out of your favor even with perfect or good reads. Does that make sense? Keep in mind there's nothing wrong with Jayakou EXCEPT that they clearly fucked up with the combo, meaning he gets much more damage and meter gain than intended (as a result of the discovered 6D~A 4D~A j9D~A Jakou j6D~D relaunch.) This means that 50 meter leads to 6+k damage and 50 meter back, making him a terrifying fortress of death

I think (Don't quote me on this) that won't work, and your jump will just be cancelled to a 6D, like what happens to Maelstrom In the case with Tsubaki, the 6C can't be cancelled to another C move on the ground, so you'll only be capable of getting jC

No, it's different. Because Bang's reversals are SO useless against top characters, and the fastest available move to mash out is 5A, with abnormally low reward mid screen, it means if you aren't defensively powerful you're going to be bad at Bang now. This means that players like Huey who have strong defense are going to have a more prosperous future with Bang than players that don't have strong defense(myself :[) Meanwhile, characters like Hazama, with 6-8k reward for mashing out, are much less defense-important.

You guys have like.. never seen Orion play before?

When that match happened the first time, I was literally falling over seats and tables in awe and excitement. It was legend.

If Arakune feels safe forward dashing out of your pressure, you're doing it wrong. His forward dash is vulnerable for roughly 4 or 5 frames, for him to successfully forward dash during your pressure means very large gaps. It's dangerous for him, he needs to read you solidly. 2C fatal is a viable complaint, if he sees you just standing there in stance, the risk reward for 2C is steeply in his favor.

Does passing it through voltech late make it green?

That's.. really surprising to me. I would expect dashing jayakou to catch that for sure, at least at most distances. I guess there's always j6D or charged 214D~A.

Did you check 2362366 Jayakou? I think it's really likely that would work, and if it does it's a massive damage punish that could be thrown on reaction Good note on 214D~A, pretty useful.

I think that may have been true in CS1, but they drastically reduced the potency of it in CS2. I'd be really surprised if he couldn't punish it somehow.