Dacidbro

Well there's certainly merit to low gatlings to keep him in blockstun and beat the backdash before it starts, but I meant after it starts on reaction. (Once the backdash has actually started, it's of course invulnerable first frame) So j6D latches on, at backdash range? That's really good to know if it does, thanks. Gives a no meter option for if you don't have the high damage punish in your pocket.

Got it. Lol Ve. Churn it real good Koopa, I only meant hit. Whiff is pretty easy for me. Thanks though

Heh, in this matchup, you're at advantage pretty much everywhere. I definitely agree to stay grounded, it keeps all the high reward options open. If you get your pressure started, Ara doesn't have any reversals until 50 meter, and even his back dash is pretty underwhelming now (Does anyone have a recommendation of how to best beat the backdash? You could probably 2362366Hotenjin it at most ranges). Just play smart, use all the tools available and you should win. Arakune has to work really hard in this match.

Oh, I hadn't actually thought of that. How would I do that off of 5A, would I need to hit a non jump cancellable normal to buffer the first 360, then 4A then 360C?

I remember him talking to me about how frustrating the overall uselessness of voltech-720 was for about a week. Lol. Such a weird mechanic. It's nice he can 720 tick from 5A/2A though.

But my win with Tager was completely legit, all call outs and solid play. Bang doesn't have any high reward call-outs, so frustrating x_x

I wasn't insulting anyone but Whiteboywilly, when it was really a debate. And most of my points went untouched. Kidviper made some good points and Huey gave me some really good information that I didn't know before, but I don't think a single person debated Hazama's pressure isn't strong and certainly no one proved his pressure isn't autopilot (although I do believe Huey a good bit more, by the way he presented his points, so I'm not quite as stoic about it as before). But hey, I got some really good info, so thanks guys.

It's ironic though because he spars with a norcal tager pretty often. ^_^b exposed

But what they were saying isn't anything like what you just said. You said some good examples of how to work against the pressure, without saying it wasn't extremely strong (And said it was "terrifying" yourself), and I personally believe the reason you are not afraid of it is because you have some of the best defense I've seen, which makes it more difficult for Hazama's to open you up autopilot. Wuku still plays Haz, doesn't he? I would really really like to see you two play.

Just last weekend, I was playing against an up and coming norcal Jin player in top4.. he beats my Bang, and I facepalm hard, because I can see the mix up but I can't do anything.. So I counterpick Tager and run it back to get 3rd.

Of course, just bringing one of the more important ones up ^_^b

Oh, I don't think that the stance overhead is what makes it autopilot. It's a great addition, but what makes it autopilot to me is the safety and ability to fade off. You're right, his 5A is great AA, better than 5C. Good call.

One thing that does work for 720's though is that it will work against certain mashing instances where 360B doesn't, since a mash hitting Tager on activation frames 1-5 does not beat 720, but does beat 360B (Remember that all ticks require a 7 frames out of stun window, so that does matter)

Yeah, his 2B is pretty good for it though, and 5C and 2C are both nice anti airs. I'll try the barrier stuff. Trusting you on that one, cause I have no one to try it against before EVO, but it sounds legit. Stance overhead is reactable to if you're godlike. You have some of the best reactions to overheads I've seen, so I can't really comment there. Bang's guardpoints are certainly useful in this matchup, although fairly risky in many contexts. I guess we have different definitions of autopilot. I feel like it's very very easy for Hazama to simultaneously remain safe, get rewarded and also condition opponents with very little personal thought or commitment.

I would easily agree stafless litchi and Makoto have much, much stronger pressure. Haz has one of the few staggerable jab pressures that is advantage even to itself, is I guess the point I wanted to make. And universally, every character with one of these is a top character (Litchi, Hazama, Noel, and Tsubaki's +2 2A has helped her become a very strong character along with her other recent buffs). Good point though, there are other characters with similar tools, and their pressure is also strong. Barrier defense is a good tip, thanks. Any tips on exactly how to use it? The last thing I want to do is give him even more frame advantage without pushing him far enough. I would guess barrier would weaken his ability to continue gatling-ing, but strengthen his staggers/pressure-resets, so it seems like it needs to be used responsibly. Haz's 6B is decent when well spaced. If you run 5B 6B your opponent should only have 7 frames window, which nearly guarantees a frame trap or blocked 6B when spaced well. But you're right, it can be difficult to apply 6B. Jabaki is only +1, meaning you can use it to make things safe OR use it very point blank and continue your pressure. I've seen a few Hazama's use it in the corner as meaty, to both catch a mash and continue pressure otherwise, it's a decent choice rarely. I agree that mid range is good against Hazama, but even then his options aren't bad. His pokes are very committing though. Huey, do you have any footage of you playing against Hazama? I would certainly like to see your perspectives in action, because I know you are very talented on defense. Worst case I guess we'll cover it at EVO

Lol I said USE it. I didn't say "Use it often" or even "Use it more than once a day, if that" It's an option And again, what's with the sharp, condescending tone? Get a grip dude, you're really pissing me off. (Zeron)

Yeah, I'm stating the exact options that counter what is being stated as answers. Not that the answers never work, just that he does have solutions for every "answer", which is what makes pressure strong. Not to mention, when he throws certain frame traps his reward is staggering, and once he hits 50 meter his reward for anything is staggering, which means the more you struggle against his pressure the higher the reward gets for him. But if you're complacent, he has a command grab, and catches many jump outs for free just with his staggers either via literally catching the start up or by hitting AUB (And a correctly confirmed AUB is sometimes pretty strong damage)

Just because they haven't been refuted yet doesn't mean they're irrefutable. You can keep trying. I don't think you'll succeed though, because the only thing I'm arguing here has been proven by countless hundreds of hours of Japanese Hazama footage. Hazama's pressure is strong (Not the strongest, but strong) and autopilot (Very few physical reads or call outs)

I give up, there's no convincing you. You would take absolutely anything except admitting my points are valid, even if the conclusion isn't supported by anything. For the argument itself, another reason IB can backfire; If 2A is IB'd a gatling'd 2A or 5B is a frame trap IB'd 5B frame traps to C's Any C can lead to safety So the longer you just continue not mixing them up, the more opportunities you give your opponent to frame trap themselves. Characters with reversals are much less susceptible, but if a reversal hits the reward is generally low, and your reward for baiting it is high. A similar concept is the reason Bang still has hope, he has ways to just keep extending his pressure, with constant frame traps or 'on-IB' frame traps.

So you would take every intelligent point I've made so far that have only been somewhat countered (Kidviper's points were very intelligent but only halfway refuted what I had stated, and did not invalidate the strength of the pressure, and Fluck mentioned IB, which leads to conditioning tricks in itself) and throw it out, just because I don't yet personally play the character well? You're something else dude.

Are you fucking kidding me? I constantly place in tournaments. Obviously I know the difference between theoretics and actual play. STOP insulting me, and make points instead. In 13 hours of practicing Hazama without real matches, I was beating players like 2gig about 25-30% of the time. And I wasn't even hitting successful combos.

Yes, you can react to IB. I personally do so often, and Satoshi clearly did as well. Because most of the offensive options have upwards of 15-18 frames stun, and many followups are 10-15 frames start up, you can confirm the white flash and gatling to something that will still maintain a 4-8frames available to act window, and score a counter hit if mashed. It's mostly effective when your opponent is stuck out of jab range, so they don't have a 5-6f option.

Of course I have, I play with OrionXElite. Make points, not assumptions

When you wolf cancel, you are sticking a red flag up that says "Im a wolf now". Yes, wolf cancel is a good tool, but it takes strong conditioning to get the first hit of wolf to actually connect. He can't effortlessly apply it. Hazama always has all of his pressure open and available.

When you IB, you become susceptible to more frame traps. Yes, IB is a good answer, but saying IB is a good answer is like saying "You should have no trouble with Makoto or Jin's mix because certain normals are chokepoints on IB" Theoretically, yes, but it's deeper than that. All of the gatlings after 5B gain a greater potency for safe frame traps, and if you let it go and empty 2B you can catch people trying to use your -1 against you. And again, really, if you IB extremely well, it does significantly reduce the potency of his pressure, like any character, and is very necessary to do. It's a good point to bring up.