[CT] Hakumen vs V-13

[mAc Chaos]

You mean like, gravity wells in the middle of combos? I don't see Nu's just using them alone usually.

[Arcade Fire87]

^ Good Nu's that make effective use of gravity wells are near impossible to beat unless they make a mistake. Bad Nu's chip away at your health, but you'll likely blow them away once you get in with your 8 stars.

I kinda disagree here. I chip away at Haku's health and don't lose often. Don't really use gravity either, it's a waste of time, all it does it let Haku build up meter while you sit there and do gravity and do drives as he blocks since he it's pointless to air dash

[Leonil_Requiem]

I kinda disagree here. I chip away at Haku's health and don't lose often. Don't really use gravity either, it's a waste of time, all it does it let Haku build up meter while you sit there and do gravity and do drives as he blocks since he it's pointless to air dash

you also have to take into consideration that in such a tipsy match-up, you need going for you to win. by this i mean, the chances of winning a match-up VS. nu online is a hell of a lot slimmer than winning offline. the openings that all nu-es have and the mistakes that all nu-es make are small and can only be punish within a brief window. haku as a character that makes his way by exploiting opening, gets boned by the silliness of online play in these types of match-ups (Rachel,V-13, Arakune, litchi, bang, tager and Carl). what do you think happens when you take that away, or should i say when the lag takes that away.

[Arcade Fire87]

...Everyone knows Hakumen is way better offline. But, what's your point? Or was that it?

[qwerty]

I kinda disagree here. I chip away at Haku's health and don't lose often. Don't really use gravity either, it's a waste of time, all it does it let Haku build up meter while you sit there and do gravity and do drives as he blocks since he it's pointless to air dash

there's a reason gravity well has a meter in cs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djxvjoTSvHA

[Arcade Fire87]

I couldn't watch all that, was too bored. Still, it's not really something you see spammed against in that fight too often (not from my experience of watching or playing, anyway)

[Sophisticat]

No, it really depends on the player. Some choose to use it, some don't. I know one very, very good Nu online who uses it very effectively and double perfects me nearly every time we get a match going. That's assuming I haven't refused it because it's an entirely ridiculous waste of time going up against someone like that. Good use of gravity wells means you seal Haku's motion nearly completely since he already can't airdash. Doesn't matter if you had a permanent Mugen with one-hit-kill jabs, if you can't get in, it's pointless. I'll upload a vid if I see him again, you'll see what I mean.

[qwerty]

just because something isn't spammed doesn't mean it's not overpowered i think japanese players who regularly enter tournaments have a better grasp of the game than a netplayer that gets no offline competition (not meant as an insult, rather a friendly reminder that there's people much better than you and that your opinion does not hold as much weight as theirs). if you aren't seeing why gravity well is so good from that video alone then may i suggest not posting in the matchup forums for the time being? the internet i came from abided by a simple saying- "lurk more"- and it's something i personally suggest all newer fighting game players abide by as well.

[Arcade Fire87]

just because something isn't spammed doesn't mean it's not overpowered

i think japanese players who regularly enter tournaments have a better grasp of the game than a netplayer that gets no offline competition (not meant as an insult, rather a friendly reminder that there's people much better than you and that your opinion does not hold as much weight as theirs).

if you aren't seeing why gravity well is so good from that video alone then may i suggest not posting in the matchup forums for the time being? the internet i came from abided by a simple saying- "lurk more"- and it's something i personally suggest all newer fighting game players abide by as well.

Nah, not offended, Japanese tournament players are ages better than net players like me. I did watch the video this time, the player used it three times in a row, but that was pretty much the extent of it. To be honest, even though they're probably players way superior to most of the Nu's and Hakumen's here, it was a really unimpressive fight by both players and I've seen way better playing online :8/:

Gravity in a matchup like that is good, and you're right, there's a reason it has a meter now in CS, I never said it wasn't overpowered, I just said it's simply not spammed and used a lot.

The figh is known to be pretty unfair for other reasons though, not purely from just zoning and putting down gravity every other sword

Besides, can't Hakumen Shippu past gravities and punish Nu real hard at closer distances?

[mAc Chaos]

I can see how it's abusive, although I don't think I saw it much in that match... Hakumen was only locked down by it for a little bit. Still, this is why I just ask questions mostly and stop there.

As far as my experience goes, I don't fear it because, they CAN use it well, but:

a) they have to time it right. Half the time they do it just as I move out of range, and I can IAD in for free.

b) they just mess it up and do it at the wrong spot.

c) they pull it off but I just sit there and block and nothing happens.

Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z0eS56CZC0

Try not to stare too hard at the scrubbiness, it can blind like the sun.

[qwerty]

To be honest, even though they're probably players way superior to most of the Nu's and Hakumen's here, it was a really unimpressive fight by both players and I've seen way better playing online :8/:

you were going somewhere until here.

just because they dropped a combo or two doesn't mean the fight was unimpressive. did you not see how good tenchi is at instant blocking? did you not decipher the guessing games that went on during that match? did you not see how they were playing on a level absolutely leagues above 99% of western players, and that even though they may have made some mistakes that lesser players make that they made them for entirely different reasons?

this is the reason i tell you and every other netplayer to start traveling if you want to get serious about the game. netplay is like first learning how to read and learning basic grammar- real competition is expanding your vocabulary and sharpening your reading comprehension. just because an essay uses big words doesn't mean that the essay itself is good, much in the way that just because a netplayer manages to land an optimal combo from the comfort of his own home doesn't mean that he's better than a player who dropped the same combo at an arcade in front of dozens, if not hundreds of spectators.

yes, you can see the match and see what happened, but you can't really see how or why; and for that reason i think the conversation here is over. nothing personal, because you're a decent guy to hang out with online and all, but you're letting your success online get the best of you. the only way to remedy this is to get some real competition. if you need help with starting a scene, there's plenty of guys here that can help you with that (there's a scene in kentucky of all places, ffs).

this may come off as harsh or abrasive, but really i'm just helping someone who i think could end up being a decent player if he stops screwing around in the sandbox and takes the effort to walk to the basketball courts.

[SimpleKiss]

I feel that those Japanese player's ability to instant block so much is 100x more an atestment to their skill than dropping an optimal combo. Look at that hakumen, look at how much he instant blocks. You never see that shit online. Shit man, I've hardly seen many pro Americans instant block so much. Gravity Well is fucking Nu Bullshit. If you disagree I dont think you truly understand the Hakumen matchup. Sure, you can get your shit pushed in for dropping a bad gravity well. But Good Gravity wells make Hakumen Hate life. You may have seen much more amazing looking things than that 'boring match' online, but that's because the higher level the play, the more common denominator the match becomes, and get boiled down to their simplest forms. Lots of High level play looks boring, because video doesn't capture the mental battle between the two players very well. Using a reversal super Yukikaze after a knockdown to fuck up a NU isn't impressive. That's called a gimmick that the Japanese don't fall for.

[mAc Chaos]

I thought it was a good match. I noticed the instant blocking but I thought that happens often offline.

The Yukikaze was just for fun. :P The point was showing what most Nu's using gravity well looks like, that's all.

I think higher level play might look boring if you're not putting yourself into the mind or eyes of the people playing since they tend to be more cautious and not just do random things. One mistake usually means the match is over, so...

[SimpleKiss]

I thought it was a good match. I noticed the instant blocking but I thought that happens often offline.

The Yukikaze was just for fun. :P The point was showing what most Nu's using gravity well looks like, that's all.

I think higher level play might look boring if you're not putting yourself into the mind or eyes of the people playing since they tend to be more cautious and not just do random things. One mistake usually means the match is over, so...

I wasn't commenting on your video specifically. The reference to yukikaze, I meant as being knockdown at midrange from nu, then using a reversal super yukikaze on one of her D-swords, which I've seen a few people do and hear "Oh shit that's so pro!" when it's more of a gimmick than anything.

[TyrantShark]

If you see people consistently instant blocking like that online, they either have amazing connection compatibility or they're literally psychic. I absolutely despise playing this game online now because a lot of it revolves around reaction speed and timing. Online just fucks up both of those heinously. Especially for Haku, who pretty much needs instant blocking as the foundation of his defense.

[Sophisticat]

Q: Can you kishuu after IB'ing 5D's first sword for an unpunishable CH? In general, when is a good time to kishuu when IB'ing a regular 5D -> 4D -> 236D string?

[mAc Chaos]

Right before the 4DD comes out. But you need good timing.

[TyrantShark]

Q: Can you kishuu after IB'ing 5D's first sword for an unpunishable CH?

In general, when is a good time to kishuu when IB'ing a regular 5D -> 4D -> 236D string?

That will work online because, most likely, they will have already input the 4D by time you finish your IB.

Offline? Not sure. If she's poking rather than going through a blockstring,(As in she hasn't input the 4D yet) she might be able to recover before you can get close enough. I assume you're going for Kishuu because she's out of Gurren range, right?

[Sophisticat]

I assume you're going for Kishuu because she's out of Gurren range, right?

Yes, less recovery too. I can also catch them off-guard once in a while for a nice setup.

I just want to use kishuu more effectively in this match-up because it's a nice tool to have. Not too many ways to get in Nu. :\

[mAc Chaos]

I just use it while they 6D.

[psycofang2]

ello me again >_> Q: whats a good approach a on a GOOD nu. like yaya or better players. b/c from waht i understand and how many times ive fought yaya...

i cant get in unless they come to me. and when they do... i get random melee into a D combo.

thing is i cant counter attack because of so many different variant approaches in nus favor.

yaya proved this by air grabbing me while i was on the ground (thats sheer bs imo) just against nu... what is a good approach because my gawd D: is this woman invicible to hakumen?

[ZhePrime]

ello me again >_> Q: whats a good approach a on a GOOD nu. like yaya or better players. b/c from waht i understand and how many times ive fought yaya...

i cant get in unless they come to me. and when they do... i get random melee into a D combo.

thing is i cant counter attack because of so many different variant approaches in nus favor.

yaya proved this by air grabbing me while i was on the ground (thats sheer bs imo) just against nu... what is a good approach because my gawd D: is this woman invicible to hakumen?

Don't airdash unless you're certain you won't get punished, do jump ins and block (be prepared to either instant och barrier block her AA moves).

623A can work if you use if sparingly and at the right time.

Keep your eyes peeled for anything you can D punish.

That's basically your options. It's not a fun matchup and it's not easy to get in. Watching match vids helps, as do fighting good Nu's a lot.

[psycofang2]

well damn. i understand the ADing but damn... the match up is fun imo to a point. >_> but yeah i see your point. i'd love to fight you sometime. you seem good with haku.

i could learn a few. videos help but actually learning when or when to execute those skills in a real fight seems different to me. on vids i see all these magical combos but then i notice... some of those combos can't be done before the enemy techs.

like 4 example: mugen gurren CH > zantetsu > kishuu > enmma > j.b > j.b > 214b > j.b > 214c

1: enemies can immediatly tech after zantetsus second hit if it isnt immediatley cancelled into a different fast ground move ( 214b or gurren).

2: if the combo does continue after air 214b and j.b if you even try tsubaki enemies can tech before it hits.

just an ex. tho just need real fight exp. thnx in advance.

[mAc Chaos]

there's a reason gravity well has a meter in cs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djxvjoTSvHA

Who is this Hakumen? He's amazing. I just watched this again after so long and suddenly I can see how good he is. I had chills run down my spine watching him IB so many swords and get in on Nu like he did. He capitalized on the slightest opportunity. (0:42) There were a few times where the Nu player just got psych'd out and the Hakumen threw out an attack at just the right time when the Nu player probably thought it would be safe to attack. (1:19)

Even then you can see how he was hanging by a thread, getting hit by random swords and such. It pains me every time I see a Haku find an opening, IAD through it and then have the j.C that should have landed barely whiff instead. It happens to me all the time!!!! My hair is now in clumps on the floor.

He punishes the gravity well with Shippu. I'm not sure if that's worth the stars, but it did knock her down and do some damage. I guess that's better than no damage? It also let him close in a bit.

He also manages to get in on Nu while playing very safe. When I get in on Nu it tends to be through risky, flying-by-the-seat-of-my-pants prediction / mindgames based things that sometimes work and sometimes don't. I'd love to be able to IB and just slowly move in like an unstoppable force on Nu like that.

Unfortunately even there he kept getting nipped to death by random swords, he'd block 90% of them but that 10% would be enough to kill him. It seems around 3:40 he started getting desperate.

Dang, almost 5 minutes and it was only a first to 2 match.

[A.X.I.S.]

mac after watching those video's thats exactly how I fight nu.

I play it really calm before I strike.