KojinSagara Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 answers? taokaka? Mwahahahaha! I think at this point, you just gotta learn how to use that barrier better, overall, just block better really. IDK, but v-13 and taokaka have issues IMO against noel when she does get in, we don't have too many opptions outside of the most basic defensive measures. the possibility of a dead angle attack and a reveral distortion exists but that's 50 heat either way. Priority needs to be put on knowing what her overhead/lows are. I hope "your friend" figures it out, Shinobi... in either case, he's lost his mind if he'd rather fight a Nu or Arakune
AsterLudkweiz Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 ... Is this thread really just on countering Noel's Drive? That isn't the main source to her offense and the least you need to worry about considering drive spam can be handled by a simple throw. I came here to read what Tao has for an answer to Noel's pressure game ie her 5A x n > dash 5A x n or her 6C > 2C > 66C > 2C. My friend swears up and down he can't beat Noel with Tao and would much rather fight Arakune or Nu . Tao's weak guard libra makes it pretty easy for Noel to guard crush her if she's keep pressure going and considering Noel's hitbox, some of Tao's combos become useless (unless the timing is just different). What are Tao's defensive options in terms of handling Noel's pressure game and mix-ups? EDIT: Barrier Block only does so much and if Tao bursts, forget about it. I have very little problem with Noels. Since I play an extremely rush down Tao and most Noels play rush down as well it usually comes down to who gets the feel of the match. From my experience all the Noels I played didn't really have any answer to counter rush down other than a reversal distortion and that's 50% heat. Just from what I've experienced though.
Ronove Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Guys, quick question. Against Noel's 2D (her drive overhead), is it better to block (maybe IB, but it's kind of a gamble online for me), or to barrier guard?
DJGoblin Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Guys, quick question. Against Noel's 2D (her drive overhead), is it better to block (maybe IB, but it's kind of a gamble online for me), or to barrier guard? I prefer to barrier guard since it pushes you back. and then jump back to get out of there and play it safe. you should be able to jump out of just about any one of her next chain drives. I have another question. What are some good combos against noel. I can do basic drive loop combos off of 6C/B+C backwards/6A/3C etc... but I cant get high damage because of her hitboxes. I have the same problem with carl/litche and anyone with small hitboxes. I haven't really seen any good combo vids against noels. Any help would be great
Ronove Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I prefer to barrier guard since it pushes you back. and then jump back to get out of there and play it safe. you should be able to jump out of just about any one of her next chain drives. I have another question. What are some good combos against noel. I can do basic drive loop combos off of 6C/B+C backwards/6A/3C etc... but I cant get high damage because of her hitboxes. I have the same problem with carl/litche and anyone with small hitboxes. I haven't really seen any good combo vids against noels. Any help would be great A good one could be: 5b -> 3c -> 5d~6 -> j.c -> 236b -> 2d~b -> 5b -> 2d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> 236bb -> 236bbb or 5b -> 3c -> 6d~6 -> 2d~b -> 5b -> 3d~9 -> (j.c -> 9d~9) x2 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbb However it depends on how much you're lagging. I only attempt these two combos if I have little lag since the 2d~b or the j2d~b are really a pain in the butt to come out properly if there's weird delay. Or, quoting Sileh from the combo thread: 5b -> 6a -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> 236bb -> 236bbb 5b -> 6a -> 236aa -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> 236bb -> 236bbb These ones should be easier to pull off although they certainly do less damage (because of 6a's proration, I suppose). Usually if you're including 6a in your combo it's a good thing to use atleast one taunt in order to have better damage proration. Taunt combos work fine as well, although I still have to test them online for the same reasons I stated above. :X
DJGoblin Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 thanks, I'll try and focus on these. I'm still trying to get the hang of taunt combos in general. Its tough to deal with lag online and can imagine some of these people damn near impossible given certain situations...
ShakunohaChaos Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Why do combos whiff vs noel? sometimes after i do 3c 5b~6 whiffs, why is that?
yukichi Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 It can be affected by your distance from Noel when you start 3c, as well as how soon you input 5d~6. If she is too far away from you, you will take a bit longer to hit her after 5d~6. If you see that Tao is flying a bit longer than normal you will have to change the delay in which you hit j.c to go into j.236b -> j.2d~b, however you can still do the combo as long as you time things right. The time to hit her with j.c is after she hits Noel and finishes spinning from the forward drive cancel. You want to hit Noel as high off the ground as possible to make it easier to finish the rest of the combo. Noel falls into the lighter category of characters, so you cannot do 5b -> 3c -> 5d~6 -> j.c -> j.5d~6, as the j.5d~6 will go under her.
Ronove Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Question for you guys: how do you cope with a 2D happy Noel? I know I've been told to block/guard but I can't be doing it all the time (since Tao's defense sucks balls). I thought I could try throwing a 6a but I guess I'd have to develope good yomi since it's one of her D moves that doesn't have an uber slow startup and actually comes out pretty quickly. I've gotta try using 4d, maybe that could do the trick. Anyway, I'd like to hear your opinion on how you guys usually deal with her 2D->followup stuff.
unkyrona Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Generally just scurry away until her last move finishes and then j.4d~b to slip behind her and start a combo. That seems to work the best for the spammers that I've tried.
TaoFTW Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Air throw. It'll surprise the hell out of every noel player. :3 I'll try to draw this out. 'H' stands for Noel's attack Hit box and 'N' is her hit box. 1-4 frame animation: __H H H__N_N H 5-10 frame: ____H H H __H_______H _____N_N 10-14 frame: _______H _________H ____N_N__H _________H First option is beserker barrage super. Second option is to hit her in the 1-4 animation (the start up execution). 5b won't work cause she's in the air - hence air throw, but you have to yomi it while you're in the air. A fraction of a frame too late will force you to eat the 2d combo. But when you land it, you'll hear the Noel player scream in disbelief. :3 Third is IB and bait the flash kick. If they don't follow it up, then 5b punish for incredible damage. Granted, if you barrier guarded while you IB, then they might be too far for you to punish. Fourth option is to jump, jump, and jump until Noel finish the drive animations. Find opportunities to sneak in a j.c in between the drive attacks for CH.
Ronove Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Thanks a lot TaoFTW. Yeah, I do barrier guard because I am usually "scared" of just blocking since Noel can easily guard crash. However, I guess I should try to resort to IB on her 2d (without any barrier) so that I can go straight into a 5b. Fourth option is usually what I've been doing recently, but I didn't like it that much because I felt I was wasting a chance to create an opening for a CH combo. As for the air-grab, I guess it'll take me quite a while to reach that level of yomi unless the Noel player is constantly spamming her 2D, in that case that will surely be useful.
Konton Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Ugh. The stun from Noel's CH 5D is annoying to deal with.
TaoFTW Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Thanks a lot TaoFTW. Yeah, I do barrier guard because I am usually "scared" of just blocking since Noel can easily guard crash. However, I guess I should try to resort to IB on her 2d (without any barrier) so that I can go straight into a 5b. Fourth option is usually what I've been doing recently, but I didn't like it that much because I felt I was wasting a chance to create an opening for a CH combo. As for the air-grab, I guess it'll take me quite a while to reach that level of yomi unless the Noel player is constantly spamming her 2D, in that case that will surely be useful. There's lots of room for creativity when you want to try punishing 2d spam. You don't have to do an air grab, but a well-timed 4d~b will CH 2d during the 1-4 frame animation. When that happens, you can follow up with a nice meaty 5.3k combo. :3 Just be aware that Noel can follow up with a flash kick after the 2d. So if you IB it, then you'll need to guess whether or not they'll use it. Put it this way, 2d is a high risk/high reward move. Every character has a response that - even Tao. If you learn how to punish players for doing risky tactics, then you'll notice your win streak jump incredibly.
Ronove Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 So far I haven't met a lot of Noels who use her flash kick since, as you said it's pretty risky if they whiff it or if it gets blocked. timed 4d~b sounds very interesting, I've seen it done in one of the latest vids I linked in the video thread (I think it was either Keita or Matoi doing it), since it managed to stop Noel's 2d right at the start of her move and would allow to follow up with a Taunt->combo, or otg 5b/5c combo. I guess it requires a bit of yomi. One thing I noticed is that a lot of Noels like to throw that 2D after I do a blockstring mostly made of 2b/2a's and 5b. Knowing that I suppose that could serve as a bait and I could immediately go for a quick airthrow/4d~b or IB. I'll keep these pointers in mind. Thankfully a friend of mine plays a very good Noel so I'll be sure to test this tactic out (baiting the 2D) and see if it works or not.
Ronove Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Today I faced an other 2D happy Noel. The airgrab worked, but what made the difference is the 6a in my blockstrings. Since it doesn't have a great range I usually try do it not too late (after a 5b), but it's great stuff because usually they would attempt a 2D since it's the only thing that cleanly beats our lows/5b. So basically they throw their 2D and our 6a scores a magnificent counterhit for some major punishment. However it's better to use it sparingly, as they only need to crouch or perfect guard to punish it. However, throwing it as part of our mixup inbetween blockstring is certainly not a bad idea. I also noticed that 4d~b is good if they're using barrier (and then go for their beloved 2D). If they're blocking->2D, then 6a or just block/IB is better.
DiasFlac Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Need to learn this match up too instead of going Tager lol but its just so annoying playing Noel's because like 90% of them spam DDDDDDDDD so as Tager its easy to beat them but as Tao...
yukichi Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Instant blocking 2d or any of the non finisher drive moves allows you to get easy throw combos off. Even better if you can kara throw with Tao, since range should never be an issue at that point if you instant block a drive attack and they keep following with another drive attack that causes them to slide towards you.
Ronove Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 If they're doing 5D just 5b them to oblivion as you block it. If they're doing 2D, see TaoFTW's posts on how to deal with it. And beware of their j.D as well, if they score a knockdown expect them to run towards you and do a IAD j.D right as you get up as part of their mixup game. Or, they might be faking their 2C->3C->painful stuff to make you jump on wakeup and go straight for an air combo. So keep your eyes open. Noel has a great mixup game once she's scored a knockdown.
GreyFlcn Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Man I had this one annoying Noel the other day. She knew that: A. Crouching gives her a very small hitbox B. Spamming either A,"pistol spin",or that pistol knockback move can block most drive attacks C. Seemed like there wasn't much I could do to punish her camping my body as it recovers, and either doing an overhead or a low attack And yeah, a lot harder to keep airborn than many other characters....
XDest Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Well, 6B 5B 3C does combo on a crouching Noel on normal hit. Also, you have a ranged poke in 5C (10 frames). Only her drives have any kind of range. And those get screwed over after block by the very same ranged poke, or a punish depending on what she follows up with. Just be aware that her 3C goes under it. Don't overuse anything aerial, just like the Litchi match-up. She's simply got aerial attacks with a bigger hitbox, and faster. And she has several things while on the ground to hit you out of the air. Try to stay at mid-range. Of course you have to move in the air but try to limit it. If you need to go into the air to come in, try to IAD or 214D, or if you have enough time and they're not reacting fast enough 4D~anything. Punish her hard on block. The drive > crossup is unsafe, the drive > launcher is unsafe, the drive > other drives can be CH 5C'd, her 3C is unsafe. Not to mention she doesn't have a real DP, just things that are invincible against certain move heights, so if you play it smart it's very possible to keep her pressured. There's lots to work with against Noels to get good damage.
ChiisaiRamen Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 Man I had this one annoying Noel the other day. She knew that: A. Crouching gives her a very small hitbox B. Spamming either A,"pistol spin",or that pistol knockback move can block most drive attacks C. Seemed like there wasn't much I could do to punish her camping my body as it recovers, and either doing an overhead or a low attack And yeah, a lot harder to keep airborn than many other characters.... If youre driving alot, that sets you up in the air. What I have noticed with playing noel is that she has really good anti air. Not only does it hit easily, it comboes into something that hurt. Nothing much you can do against her camping your body as you recover. When you get knocked down like that its time to play guessing games. -you can quick tech but you are going to have to guess if they are gonna do an overhead or low. If you have good enough reflexes you can react with a standing block as you see the overhead coming. -you can roll forward, most noels who just knocked you down with bloom trigger will be running towards you. If they did not expect it, you will past em and they will run past you. -roll backward, but you have to do it the moment they get close, because thats the time theyll swing at you. -just lie there and take the hit. A few extra prorated damage doesnt sound as bad as guessing wrong and punished with a new combo from scratch. Moreso, youd most likely air tech after one hit, which is safer give or take than teching as you get up from the ground, as long as you use your drives to run away and kill her momentum.
GreyFlcn Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Bah same shit today If you get nailed with a pistol AA, she's got you into a mixup (Or worse yet, directly into a combo) (Which also goes for 6C) And if you miss one mixup, she's got you into another long combo. And then add in spamming green AA grabs into combos. And for the life of me, I can't score more than one horizontal drive attack after a 6C or 3C on her (No idea what the timing is supposed to be, but it's pretty narrow apparently) Just feels like she's got a lot of easy ways to punish you. But your options to punish back are maybe still powerful... but hard to execute.... And mostly only come after she makes a mistake. Dunno, maybe I just need to focus on 6C with a rush B>C, or with a Catspirit 3 And yeah, the usual 3C, D~B [hit or no hit] B, C, (loop) Just sucks that I get to be lazy with my drive loops on all those other characters but Jin and Noel Meanwhile their pressure and defense is really good.
GreyFlcn Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Hrmm well I'm noticing if you block her low 3C, she can be punished with a 5C -> 6C But yeah, it just occurred to me. Time to look up her frame data, to know what moves of hers are unsafe ;D http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/noel_data/
Lord Knight Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Whistler shared the vs Noel matchup on twitter - ノエル戦。開幕は安定がバックジャンプ、前ジャンプはノエルの開幕5C見てからJC確定なので相手の様子見て切り替え。立ち回りの基本は飛びながらヒットアンドアウェイ。ノエルの6Aと空投げに気をつける。まず地上で捕まえないと勝てないと分かってるノエルは、逃げの着地に6A起点に触ってくる なので、着地をわかりにくくするために、手を出したり相手の裏に回ったり、空中バックダッシュしたりと、安易に下を取れないようにする。 触られてチェーンリボルバーをガードしてしまった時は基本立ちガードから6D見てからしゃがみの方がガードしやすい。Aオプの隙消しガード後はこちら有利なので5B暴れ安定。離れてなきゃ2Dも潰せる。もし5Bを2Dで抜けられてしまっても5Bをレバー後ろに入れて打てば勝手にガードしてくれる。 そんで、2Dガードしたあとは5B暴れがわりと安定。向こうはぶっぱスプリングレイドで勝てるけど、それ以外は5Bで勝ち。とりあえずこれ見せとけば無理やりゲージ使う以外は対応できる ノエルに起き攻めされる時の対応。相手の選択肢が5Aばかりなら、たまには3Cぶっ放してビビらせる。 2Bや2A、端でのバクステ狩り兼ねた6C、投げや6Cディレイ投げなどは自分にゲージあるなら、バレるまでは1ABC＞ディレイ6ABで割と安定して返せる。これで最速投げを投げ抜けしつつ、バクステ狩りや当て投げにはカウンターアサルトが出て、遅らせ投げや遅らせ下段には6Bで回避しやすい。 暴れD連携に何が勝てるか。6Aは2Dを安定して潰し、4Dも潰せるが、噛み合うと4Dに負ける場合も。6Cは2D4Dを潰せるけど、ガト読まれると5Dに負ける。2Dに5Bは不利Fじゃなきゃ勝てる…はず(これはマトイさん調べ)。 ノエル戦の話題だったんで色々書いたけど、とりあえずこんくらいで… 抜けてること多分あるけど、ツイッターだしメモ書き程度ってことでｗ 立ち回りガン有利だけど、一発火力と起き攻めでやられかねないこと考えて、総合的には五分〜微有利かな。不利はないね。
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