10stars Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 This fight is 6:4 in Jins favor in my opinion, which I'm pretty sure is Dora and alot of other Bang players opinions. Even though Jin doesn't really have the most damaging combos to throw around, a good Jin can reset you frequently, AND if he guesses right in alot of situations, you take more damage than you would against another character. Example: You're on the offense, Jin wakes up, you predict a dp, so you 2d it, he predicts your prediction of the dp, and instead throws you. You take a handful of damage, and you're setup for Jins 50/50s with high low mixup on freezes / low air dashes. But anyway, off to the fight information. The Opener Starting the fight against Jin can be frustrating, alot of Jins would rather jump off start and see what you're going to do, and rushing at him can be a free j.d > freeze > combo for him. On the same note, if he opts not to jump, and you THINK he's going to, jumping above him can end up with you either taking an A dp from Jin, or instant blocking/barrier blocking it, with no way to punish it. Diving deeper into Jins opening reaction, you can j.D his A dp, and teleport for a counter hit off the start. But that's a pretty decent risk anyway, and the height of your jump has to be nearly perfect in order for it to work. So if he dps late, you still cant punish it even IF you know it's coming. Like I said, the opener is frustrating. The safest option, as usual, is to throw some nails at him off the start. I prefer tking a B nail off the start against Jin. This way you save 2 nails instead of tossing drive nails at him. And if tkd, it does alot for you; It covers a neutral jump and makes him block if he doesn't IAD forward or backwards. It AVOIDS all of his dps off the start, so you can move in for pressure if his dp whiffs because he thought you were jumping. It counter hits ice car (Not that Jin should be using it off the start of a fight but there's some uh.. well, there's some Jins out there.) It has multiple things that can happen if Jin throws an Hishouken off the start (Also something that he shouldn't be doing, but it DOES cover this). The B nail either: Counter hits Jin, simply breaks his Hishouken, OR it breaks his Hishouken AND counter hits Jin. And it counter hits his 5c However, like everything in any game, there's always something that beats even great openers, Jins 5d will beat out Bangs tk nail. If the timing is slightly off and Bang tks A LITTLE before Jin hits 5d, they will trade, in Jins favor. (However if they trade, the freeze from 5d will not stay on Bang) Jin can also IAD towards you, and hit you with j.B. His j.C will whiff. And his j.D is blockable because of its startup after the iad. Please feel free to post any information that is wrong on the above, my opening timing may be weak or something, but from all the Jins I've played, everything above is true. Bang Oki Like I said in the beginning, Bang has issues with Jins throw. Being psychic is nice sometimes against dps, but in this case, it's REALLY risky to run up and 2d what you think may be a dp. If he opts to wait it out and block instead of dping, and throws you, you're in for trouble. HOWEVER: There is a VERY sexy way around this, and ALL Bang players should be learning it. Whenever you throw a drive move, if you hit 1+A+B+C within 11 frames of a throw hitting you, you will ALWAYS tech the throw, whether it is a counter throw or not. Most likely a glitch, but it is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. Video below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJI02Q3My4I If you properly learn this, Jins throwing becomes much less of a problem, and when you predict the dp, you can safely attempt to 2d it. The only drawback? Your pressure is done, and you have to get back in on him safely. Also, 2d beats out ALL of Jins dps if timed correctly on his wakeup. When you get in Jins face you need to keep him honest, what I mean by this, is that if you're doing pressure strings, and you DON'T want to tk drive nails to keep pressure going, instead of jump canceling an attack such as 2b, you need to just let it recover and run back in. The problem against Jin with empty jump canceling, is that alot of Jin players are FEARLESS with their A dragon punch. Jumping and barrier blocking the dp is nice, but the dp can still go unpunished, and can also end your pressure. You do run the risk of Jin jumping out during your 2b recovery, but it's overall safer. And if he does decide to jump out, you have options to go after him safely: Jump and wait for Jins drive attack, punish it on block. Jump and hit a few j.as to bring him back down to the ground, then continue your pressure string. If you want to be RUTHLESS and the Jin you're playing is defensively jumping (aka, neutral jumping and not attacking to see what you're going to do) IAD 623C. This is high risk, but it runs a high reward as well, 2.5k + you're back on oki game. Some Jins will jump and ice car out of pressure, it's a good idea unless the Bang player j.As. j.A will beat alot of the early startup frames of air ice car out, j.A ch leads into j.a > j.b > dj.b > dj.c, which again puts Jin on the defensive. With throw avoiding against Jin covered during Bangs oki, his dps covered, Jin isn't threatening on wakeup anymore, and you should be able to get alot of strings and pressure in. On the defensive This is where things can get rough for Bang, or they can be easy. Jin only has one standing, slow as hell overhead, you can 2d it, or block it and punish with 5b. Remember that if Jins 5a is blocked, he can not cancel into another move, so if a Jin for whatever reason thinks that it's a good idea to use his overhead, punish the hell out of him. Jumping out of Jins pressure can go either way, as in every other situation where Jin sees someone jumping, he's going to be fearless with his A dragon punch. You can instant block, or barrier block it and air dash out safely though. If you're low to the ground when you block it, you have the option to double jump dash out, since Bang has an extra dash / jump. When Jin is on the offensive for oki, and is standing in front of you, for the love of god, do NOT back or forward roll on the ground, you WILL be pummeled by his 5b back into another combo, back onto the ground. Quick tech in place and block, simple as that. If Jin is throwing ice cars out during pressure strings, you can instant block ANYTHING he does before the ice car, and jump out before the ice car hits you. You also have the option to instant block whatever comes before the ice car, and 5d > a teleport. The 5d > a teleport hits his B and C versions of ice car. It will whiff against his A and D versions. If Jin is throwing ground Hishoukens during pressure, you can again instant block ANYTHING before it, and jump out before the hishouken ever hits you. You can also 5d ANY of his hishoukens by instant blocking > 5d whatever blockstring he's throwing before the hishouken. The 5d hits all 4 versions of his hishouken, and 2d works as well. Watch out for air EX Hishoukens, you have to block them high, and if you don't you're getting frozen and setup for oki. The Jins who are going to give Bangs problems are the ones who wont randomly throw out ice car and wont random end their pressure with a hishouken, you need experience blocking the high low that happens on oki from low air dashes / ice setups, there really isn't much I can write that will help you without experiencing it. Drives 5d is good against hishous and ice cars after instant blocks as stated before. 2d is good for anticipated dps on wakeup. j.d CAN be good for anticipated dps when you jump, but its high risk, and i dont really advise going for it much. 6d is meh, i wouldn't bother using it outside of combos in this fight. Character specific combos * against Jin, midscreen: 5A,5B,2B,623B, d.2B,6C, dj.B,dj.C, optional A shuri 2868 Damage * against Jin, midscreen: 5A,5B,2B,623B, d,5B,2B, sj.A,B,C, optional A shuri 2761 Damage easier variation. Comments are needed, although I have experience in this fight, there may be things missing.
RPGsFTW Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 i also updated the dora bang combos section: against Jin, midscreen: 5A,5B,2B,623B, d.2B,6C, dj.B,dj.C, optional A shuri 2868 Damageagainst Jin, midscreen: 5A,5B,2B,623B, d,5B,2B, sj.A,B,C, optional A shuri 2761 Damage easier variation. really hard timing for the d.2B. i would disencourage going for this combo online, otherwise, it's cool. ^That. -Running super can go through ice projectiles and hit. -Go crazy with left and right movements when frozen to help breakout. Jin's can throw into arrow super, and continue that with an air combo. -Be sure to know how to tech grabs. If you don't expect it, Jin can regrab you multiple times. However, if the Jin knows that you are waiting for a tech, he can run up to you and super instead. Be prepared to block sometimes.
Reioumu Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 can you autoguard Jin's ice car efficiently with 2d? Just a thought.
Evertras Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 can you autoguard Jin's ice car efficiently with 2d? Just a thought. Yeah, I'm starting to get the timing on this down but I'm starting to use it pretty well I think. Against ice car spammers I just 2D as soon as they hop on, just be careful not to try and pop it too late or they'll still hit you.
Order Jeff Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 j.D is also a very effective tool against ice car. Promptly j.D after you jump and you will hover very low off the ground, higher than the ice car hit box. The car will push you along but not hit so he cant RC to make it safe and you will slam him down for the counter hit. I am not sure of a good followup at this point but 2B > 6C might work. I prefer this to 2D because you dont actually need the guard point, and with lag, I am a few frames late with my 2D for the GP quite often. Lower risk, lower reward, but quite a bit safer imo. Also, off an A ice car, some Jin's will DP asap once recovered. More often than not, they strike the GP and eat it anyway, but if I had done 2D and he stopped short, I would be the one dining on a heaping helping of pain.
10stars Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 Jin combos updated to the original post, as well as a ton of information on this fight.
Evertras Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Also to note, Fatal Eruption absolutely rapes incoming Jins. It plows right through projectiles and ice cars.
RPGsFTW Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Also to note, Fatal Eruption absolutely rapes incoming Jins. It plows right through projectiles and ice cars. His 25% heat projectiles can beat Bang's running super easy. However, if you were to time it good, you can run through his big wave super. Whatever it is called?
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 The overdrive is nice to use I guess. But get 2d timing down, you can beat ice car out with it and turn the 50% into 60% heat, then still hit him with the 2d > j.d > land > 2b > 623b > 2363214c distortion. Leaving you with more heat, higher damage, and oki. You can also 2d his wave super, teleport / hit.
rambo4ever Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I like that throw breaking technique you mentioned. Good sh1t.
zeth07 Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Besides, (5A/2A)-5B-2B-2C-6D-6239B, are there any BnB or beginner friendly combos to use against Jin online? I saw the ones posted but that d.2B or d.5B is hard for me to consistently get in training mode so during a match online I just don't see it working out for me. And since both of the combos posted drop the 2C-6D (from the BnB) before the Fire Punch, would it be worth it to keep it simple like that and just try and put pressure on after the Fire Punch if I can't land that d.2B part of that combo? It just feels like the first BnB is all i'm really working with, besides including a cross-up version of it, so i'm looking for a different combo to use against Jin to keep em guessing. If the ones with the d.2B / d.5B are all we got then i guess i'm going to be working hard on that, cause the majority of the people i face online use Jin. Or if i beat them when they use someone else, the next fight they go to Jin and do what 90% of the online Jins do.
10stars Posted July 14, 2009 Author Posted July 14, 2009 5a > 5b > 2b > 2c > tk webnail > land > 5d > j.b > j.b > j.c is 2452 damage, easy bnb that works on jin. 2d > super jump 8 > j.d > land > 2b > distortion works on him. I really prefer doing the lower damage bnb because of its reset ability tbh. If i stray from it i normally use the first combo i listed, so i can still have a 50/50
zeth07 Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 5a > 5b > 2b > 2c > tk webnail > land > 5d > j.b > j.b > j.c is 2452 damage, easy bnb that works on jin. 2d > super jump 8 > j.d > land > 2b > distortion works on him. I really prefer doing the lower damage bnb because of its reset ability tbh. If i stray from it i normally use the first combo i listed, so i can still have a 50/50 Thanks for those. I'm definitely going to work on them next.
AtTheGates Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 hasn't been mentioned yet: jin's 2A goes under bang's 5A. pain in the ass. this basically means, 5A as the safest option after a jumpin to keep gaps small is less useful, just like against tao, rachel, noel.
RPGsFTW Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Hopefully I didn't ask before, but is there anyway around Jin's freeze into air combo freeze crap? I really hate fighting Jins now. They do their stupid, easy hitting drives into free long combos. It is very annoying once I'm in the air and I lose half health. Is there any way to counter this?
Browncoat3 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I would say Jin's Drive is even more annoying than Arakune's. Learning how to waggle out of freeze helps a lot. I don't think it's easy to do on a pad, but if you have a stick, practicing getting out of freeze can be a lifesaver against Jin's extremely homosexual resets and combos that should never have hit you. The idea is not to hit the grate with your stick, but to wiggle it right and left just enough for the game to count it as an input. Going to training and putting it on input display helps this a lot. It's a lot harder to do online or under pressure though, especially considering my horrible execution. As for stopping the Drives in the first place...Block? Guard point them? I'm having a lot of success with j.D against Jin's lately, just have to get the timing down. A counter hit from a j.D leads to some very nice combos. Try that out. Besides that, I hate that freeze as much as everyone else.
sergetrigger Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 ^ Yeah, getting frozen in place is a bitch... Luckily, they are pretty predictable with it, a 3C can stop it or at least get a counter hit from that 4D they do (The ice lion head). Also their attack patterns are always the same, they always go low, then into a couple of sword slashes, then a drive. If they're zoning, just 2d the ice sword and C teleport. It usually gets up to their faces and surprises the hell out of newbie Jin players. And always expect the DP on wakeup... God knows how many times that happened to me. Also, their DP can stop Bang's super... Had it happened to me, they'll do one of them first then quickly buffer in the second one to punish. And they can do this out of A and B ice car...
ocdscale Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 And always expect the DP on wakeup... God knows how many times that happened to me. Also, their DP can stop Bang's super... Had it happened to me, they'll do one of them first then quickly buffer in the second one to punish. And they can do this out of A and B ice car... One of the most basic elements in any Jin matchup is punishing ice cars consistently. No ice car is safe on block, although A is lower risk, because many players expect/wait for the sword slash before punishing.
Siefer Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Jin can cancel his overhead into ice car, and then RC the ice car. It's situational, but it's something worth noting.
10stars Posted August 6, 2009 Author Posted August 6, 2009 Jin can cancel his overhead into ice car, and then RC the ice car. It's situational, but it's something worth noting. Jin can only cancel his overhead into ANYTHING if the overhead hits. Block it and he's free.
Darcius Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Baton twirl is shit, you have to be houdini to make it connect and be worth the risk.
KowtowRobinson Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 I'm seeing his overhead much better, but blocking it in lag? lol maybe someday. Offline I should be good.
10stars Posted August 6, 2009 Author Posted August 6, 2009 You should be able to react to his overhead with your eyes closed, the sound is unmistakable.
Reioumu Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 One of the most basic elements in any Jin matchup is punishing ice cars consistently. No ice car is safe on block, although A is lower risk, because many players expect/wait for the sword slash before punishing. ^this Just don't barrier the ice car. Just poke with 5a after the sword hits, it's not worth the risk of getting hit by Ice car slash to try to punish the A version. Though I'm thinking 6D might work afterwards to punish most options.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 fml, I'm having a rough time with Jins lately. That 25 heat counter move...good lord is that thing broken. Anyway, you can punish non A ice cars with 5B into a bnb. 5A isn't usually close enough to punish properly. Does anyone have any tips for waggling out of ice quickly (with a pad)?
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