Suggested Tweaks and Oversights

[Mai-ah]

I hope you realise that numpad notation is used across many games. So saying you dont know it while speaking of universal terminology sounds silly.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

I also said I don't use terminology that needs a point of reference either.  But you conveniently missed that point, didn't you? 

How am I supposed to know what 4676845k is again? 

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Anyway, I'll probably be online sometime soon.  Get reckt if you like - you all know where to bring it.

 

EDIT:  Also, I'm going to keep beating the hell out of this until someone says something.  Fuck this shit, Steve H gets away with a lot of bullshit in game, I'll be damned if he does it in real life too.

 

STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC.  WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS? 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[Mai-ah]

What does that even mean? You use the move names to denote what move you are talking about. If you dont know what the move is called, you then have to look it up. Is that not needing a point of reference? How would that be any different than looking up what attack level is?

4676845k - back, forward, up forward, forward, up, back, neutral, kick. Is imagining a keypad too hard or something?

[zankoku]

How am I supposed to know what 4676845k is again? 

Incidentally I visualized this motion pretty quickly without needing to look at a numpad.

What is a universal notation system, anyway? I don't think things like DPM (623) and Pretzel (1632143) are any more intuitive to understand from an outside viewpoint, and the existence of normals done with diagonally down and forward (Ky 3H) makes numpad notation all the more fitting for the game it is being used for, doesn't it?

[Kikuichimonji]

I also said I don't use terminology that needs a point of reference either.  But you conveniently missed that point, didn't you? 

How am I supposed to know what 4676845k is again? 

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Mai-ah

In that retort, we ignore the difference between in game reference and stuff coined by the FGC. 

 

So you're saying I have to REFERENCE a keypad, right?  So what happens when you use a calculator on your job often that has the numbers reversed?

 

EDIT:  Also, I'm going to keep beating the hell out of this until someone says something.  Fuck this shit, Steve H gets away with a lot of bullshit in game, I'll be damned if he does it in real life too.

 

STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC.  WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS? 

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[zankoku]

When and where did Steve H make those suggestions? :v

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Over the phone with me while I was composing the list. 

[zankoku]

Well, with no strong reasoning or context or even hard source to work off of, I'd have to say those ideas appear rather silly at first glance.

How the ramblings of some other guy, reputable player or not, over a phone conversation are at all relevant baffle me, unless you're just trying to draw fire away from your own opinions which happen to be the central topic of this thread.

Edited September 10, 2015 by zankoku

[huber]

Hello? Is this thing on? Zeus install

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[Sol Badguy Z AC]

You guys seem to think that because someone complains a lot, doesn't know GG related jargin, doesn't look up frame data and doesn't know what an attack level is, that they're not qualified to suggest anything.  Well, here's another person who doesn't know any of that shit.  Feel you can beat him?  Feel you can beat me?

[zankoku]

I would agree that someone who isn't familiar with the underlying mechanics of a game is not qualified to suggest changes to the mechanics of the game, yes.

Are we really jumping into the "fight me if you think I'm wrong" phase now?

[Mai-ah]

Mai-ah

In that retort, we ignore the difference between in game reference and stuff coined by the FGC. 

 

So you're saying I have to REFERENCE a keypad, right?  So what happens when you use a calculator on your job that has the numbers reversed?

 

But it's not term coined by the FGC? It's pretty much a direct translation of what Arc themselves call the system

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AKwCGJXNE14J:www.ggxrd.com/locatest.pdf+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Word we are looking for here is 攻撃レベル.

Numpad notation assumes a standard numpad 1-9 with 1 being on the bottom left. As soon as you know this it is then trivial to just imagine a numpad like that and confirm the motion. The existence of some reversed calculator in some parallel dimension is completely irrelevant. Although it might be too hard to use your imagination if you have no brain, so i can sympathise.

[greatfernman]

Player skill is not proportional to knowledge

[huber]

Wish my calculator could browse dust loop. Mine just does math

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[Magaki]

There were some interesting points that were brought out since last time I posted but honestly, there is no point to even reply anymore once you see posts that are basically:

"STFU and fite me. I'm better so I'm right"

"You're stupid"

"I'm not stupid, you ARE !"

Just lock this topic once and for all because it's just gonna degenerate into gamefaqs-level soon.

If someone still want to talk about the (valid, logical and developped) points that were said here, we can just make another thread and copy them there for further discussions.

Also guys, let's just not talk about rushdown. It's one of those terms that are so vague that everyone got a different definition. For some people it's getting in, for others it's a character archetype that is the opposite of zoners and just with those 2 definitions, there are plenty of variants.
That's like one of the most basic and redundant trap in FG talk. If you want to talk about one character's ability to get in (Faust by the way is pretty bad at doing that by himself. Why do you think his airdash and run sucks ? His acceleration on his run is bad too specifically to make microdash pokes and dash FD break not that efficient.), just talk about him getting in. Not rushdown.

It's especially the case in GG. You don't have ANY true zoners. Even characters like Axl and Venom need to get in and pressure the opponent to truly get their game and mixup going. That's a constant in any GG and that's why you don't have carbon copies of v13 or Dhalsim in it who want to be as far as possible in order to win with the least amount of risk.

[Hollysmoke]

You guys seem to think that because someone complains a lot, doesn't know GG related jargin, doesn't look up frame data and doesn't know what an attack level is, that they're not qualified to suggest anything.  Well, here's another person who doesn't know any of that shit.  Feel you can beat him?  Feel you can beat me?

You're right; you're not. You're expressing ideas without an understanding of even the basic level of context with respect to the game. Frames are important because it tells you a lot about the behaviour of a move. How long you'll be hitting, how long you'll be recovering, how fast you can hit someone. That's part of the frame that builds up in ANY fighting game, really. Attack level of a move is intrinsic to GG because it builds up on the previous point; information on the move. This time it's about hit/block stun. People take all this information and they come up with a strategy, a combo, whatever. You're overlooking the framework of the game and making design suggestions outside of it.

Dummy.

[Naka]

I really want to read a topic full of information and analyzing about characters that REALLY need a tweak. We stuck nearly 6 pages adressed the 2 already good balanced characters that won't need any change until the whole game evolve into a different meta than now and try to lecture(somewhat) a guy who insist on demanding overwhelming buff/neff on both char. I repeat myself, I really want to know your thought about Potemkin and Ramlethal. On the last page Flick posted some interesting contents about Potemkin. I'm waiting to see some discussion here since someone finally light thing up on this topic. 

[mAc Chaos]

You guys seem to think that because someone complains a lot, doesn't know GG related jargin, doesn't look up frame data and doesn't know what an attack level is, that they're not qualified to suggest anything.  Well, here's another person who doesn't know any of that shit.  Feel you can beat him?  Feel you can beat me?

Yes, if someone doesn't know the info they're basing their suggestions on then chances are their suggestions won't make sense. Instead of taking offense from people pointing out learning those things you should embrace it. Especially if you want them to take your attitude seriously. And beating you or you beating them wouldn't prove your suggestion is right anyway.

Speaking of attitude, drop the whole "I'm laughing at you" "No I'm laughing at you" stuff. Drop randomly challenging people as a comeback like it has some sort of proof value because they replied to you. I don't want to lock the thread, but I will if it continues. That goes for everyone else too.

You have a thread here for potentially constructive discussion about balance, use it for that. I'll delete and/or infract if it's just useless driveby trolling.

Edited September 10, 2015 by mAc Chaos

[KurlyBandit]

No character in any of the guilty gears has had a hurtbox like XRD Faust where he can reach lower to attack than he can get punished.  You guys keep bringing this shit up about other character's hitboxes, and I refuse to acknowledge the strawman.  Where as changing your combo to deal with specific character's weights and etc is one thing, characters missing combos from anti airs because his big bendy ass contracts upward into nothing is another.  He's the only character in the game that does that.

You guys seem to think that because someone complains a lot, doesn't know GG related jargin, doesn't look up frame data and doesn't know what an attack level is, that they're not qualified to suggest anything.  Well, here's another person who doesn't know any of that shit.  Feel you can beat him?  Feel you can beat me?

This thread is literally just bait, but fuck it I'll bite. Faust isn't the only character who you have to adjust combos to suit the hurtboxes, it depends on the character you're playing. Chipp's standard JI combo has to be slightly adjusted for each character to get the moves to hit, he has combos that only work on like 6 characters because the hurtboxes line up, he can extend certain combos because of character weight making the character in a different position so moves react differently.

Sol is one of the characters with the most universal combos. If Faust is really the only character your combos don't work on then it shouldn't be hard to learn Faust specific combos. 

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

mAc Chaos

Yes, if someone doesn't know the info they're basing their suggestions on then chances are their suggestions won't make sense.

I see them mostly picking at the fact that I don't know the jargon, which isn't a necessity to know what's going on, nor do you need to know frame data to know when something's abuseable when you see it whored out in every match of top players.  Nage isn't the only Faust.

Instead of taking offense from people pointing out learning those things you should embrace it.

I think I'm good on the whole frame data thing.  I've played the game for 15 years without knowing it and still manage to be good at it.  I've also gotten this far without the terminology too. 

Especially if you want them to take your attitude seriously.

What attitude?  I understand how they see me, and they choose to be asses about it.  Regardless of whatever I say, I don't have control over them, they are free to scoff at me, and I'm free to dismiss their scoffing. 

And beating you or you beating them wouldn't prove your suggestion is right anyway.

Don't fall for the bait dude.  Overwhelmed with replies, I decided to play around too.

Speaking of attitude, drop the whole "I'm laughing at you" "No I'm laughing at you" stuff. I don't want to lock the thread, but I will if it continues. That goes for everyone else too.

I'm only returning what I'm being given.  If I'm going to be punished for constantly telling them that they don't affect me as much as they think they do, then so be it.  Should I apologize for having a lack of shame?

You have a thread here for potentially constructive discussion about balance, use it for that. I'll delete and/or infract if it's just useless driveby trolling.

Yeah, and it'd be nice for people to acknowledge what's being stated about certain subjects without them strawmaning the holy hell out of me.  I was not aware that Sol was near top, though I did know he was pretty high in this game.  I did hear that Zato, Faust, and Elphelt were top three (which may mean that my knowledge may be dated, the way they're reacting). 

 

@Naka

I really want to read a topic full of information and analyzing about characters that REALLY need a tweak. We stuck nearly 6 pages adressed the 2 already good balanced characters that won't need any change until the whole game evolve into a different meta than now and try to lecture(somewhat) a guy who insist on demanding overwhelming buff/neff on both char. I repeat myself, I really want to know your thought about Potemkin and Ramlethal. On the last page Flick posted some interesting contents about Potemkin. I'm waiting to see some discussion here since someone finally light thing up on this topic. 

And this is what I'm talking about.  We've already been over why my buffs to Sol are bad, this is no longer an issue.  We've already been over the context of what I meant when referring to the entire list of nerfs I would've given to Faust, yet the only two serious nerfs I suggested have yet to be shot down objectively.  Now the topic seems to be shifting towards "How big is your wallet that you can suggest anything?", which is kind of a fallacious statement akin to "you can't draw, so you can't critique".  What's wrong with discussing why changes are bad?  Do I need to be somebody to complain about stuff I don't like in a fighting game?  If you're going to bring up a counterpoint, do it, otherwise I will still find the changes viable.

[Poultrygeist]

If you've played the game for 15 years without knowing basic fighting game fundamental knowledge, is it possible to assume that maybe you aren't as high level as you think you are?  

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

It's more that you think that I think I'm high level.  I believe I've referred many times to other "better" Sols/players throughout the thread.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[DaiAndOh]

Well I decide to look up some information on ol SBZ here.

He is indeed Steve H's boy. Has played a fair amount of time if you can tell by the join date (as well as the 15 years thing he mentioned). And not bad at all from the little footage I saw (of Vanilla AC). Kinda makes me confused and sad to see you say such things really.

Unfortunately, I'm told you don't travel outside of MD :(. Rather a shame, I would have liked to get that FT5 in, although it won't stop Hotashi though as he said above haha. Do you play in the Xanadu tournaments? Didn't see your name in any, do you use another name in those??

Also here's a nice youtube comment thread with him crapping on Ogawa and Machaboo's play from early Xrd (funny...they "grew up" to be EVO and Arc Revo champ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0oXvdQisws&lc=z13dwfqj1l2fvf3tx23lh52gorfzirfxg04

Now that's just ridiculous...but there's something to be respected about not caring I think.

Edited September 10, 2015 by DaiAndOh